NPCs

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

Please buff npc they are far too easy to kill and too dumb to be effective as guards, making iron guard as an applied tactic to camps once again would help. I can easily wipe a camp in under 10 sec, that should not be.

[Fueki.4753]

No thank you.I'm happy with the quick and easy Guard Killer daily.

[Sobx.1758]

@"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:Please buff npc they are far too easy to kill and too dumb to be effective as guards, making iron guard as an applied tactic to camps once again would help. I can easily wipe a camp in under 10 sec, that should not be.

It's not a pve mode, camps shouldn't be able to reasonably "defend themselves" -if there's nobody nearby to defend it then good for you I guess.

[Justine.6351]

I disagree david.Maybe their skill set could be improved but beyond that they serve their function in today's game. To flag a camp so that nearby defenders have a chance to respond. Not for people from garrison to run all the way to south camp to defend. With "marked" being available as a counter roaming tool it's just not appropriate at this point.

[ASP.8093]

I think they fulfill their intended purpose as speedbumps. If you think a few AOE-spam builds are a bit too good at claiming camps quickly, an easy fix is to make the ranger NPCs (Scouts, Wizards, Cabalists) move away a bit after they get hit with a pull.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

I want the NPCs to res me.

D:

[Justine.6351]

@"ASP.8093" said:I think they fulfill their intended purpose as speedbumps. If you think a few AOE-spam builds are a bit too good at claiming camps quickly, an easy fix is to make the ranger NPCs (Scouts, Wizards, Cabalists) move away a bit after they get hit with a pull.

Yeah I had a suggestion eons ago about making the 3rd random camp guard a "skirmisher" npc with a shortbow and they would use rangers dodge back shot.

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I want the NPCs to res me.

D:

I forgot they used to rez rofl. That was eons ago too.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

@"Justine.6351" said:I disagree david.Maybe their skill set could be improved but beyond that they serve their function in today's game. To flag a camp so that nearby defenders have a chance to respond. Not for people from garrison to run all the way to south camp to defend. With "marked" being available as a counter roaming tool it's just not appropriate at this point.

They are totally worthless nowadays, it's easy to capture a camp within the 30 second window BEFORE it even gets flagged on the map. They used to be speedbumps but pc's are MUCH more powerful nowadays, even on some tank builds. The only players that have a chance to respond are any heading there to begin with or if it's a non 80 player trying to take the camp.

[Justine.6351]

@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:I disagree david.Maybe their skill set could be improved but beyond that they serve their function in today's game. To flag a camp so that nearby defenders have a chance to respond. Not for people from garrison to run all the way to south camp to defend. With "marked" being available as a counter roaming tool it's just not appropriate at this point.

They are totally worthless nowadays, it's easy to capture a camp within the 30 second window BEFORE it even gets flagged on the map. They used to be speedbumps but pc's are MUCH more powerful nowadays, even on some tank builds. The only players that have a chance to respond are any heading there to begin with or if it's a non 80 player trying to take the camp.

Uh yeah that's kind of our point. It takes experience to counter roam but not a lot to be effective and knowing who is going where. David is certainly someone with much experience and understands our angle on it.

[Dawdler.8521]

Are we talking about players or guards here? Its not really made clear. Every time I start reading a post, its clear its about players, but at the end of it I have doubts.

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I want the NPCs to res me.

D:

I think the charr guards used to rez players, although in my old age remembering is always factual.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I think this has little to do with NPCs; they're fairly strong after the Power nerfs, sure they go down easy if you have a full set of infusions and the relevant masteries, but to a new player they're rather challenging especially if reinforced by mercenaries. Its not uncommon for a newbie to wipe to a camp, and I even see it happen to veteran players from time to time if they make a mistake.

The camp being taken too quickly is a problem though, they throw up swords way too late.

One possible solution is to make the "cave" camps have very weak gates at each entrance, weak enough to be destroyed by a single player without siege, and the "open air" camps could have a force field around them with a generator that needs to be destroyed.

Maybe even a few extra normal guards on the outside.

The idea here is not to turn it into another PvD objective but just buy a bit of time, with higher tier camps taking more effort to reward the side that defended them long enough to be upgraded, given how hard camps are to prevent being flipped.

It would also add tactics: Players could repair the barriers to create a trap for enemies already inside.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I want the NPCs to res me.

D:

I think the charr guards used to rez players, although in my old age remembering is always factual.

NPCs did revive fallen players for a time.

D:

[KrHome.1920]

@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:I disagree david.Maybe their skill set could be improved but beyond that they serve their function in today's game. To flag a camp so that nearby defenders have a chance to respond. Not for people from garrison to run all the way to south camp to defend. With "marked" being available as a counter roaming tool it's just not appropriate at this point.

They are totally worthless nowadays, it's easy to capture a camp within the 30 second window BEFORE it even gets flagged on the map.A single player needs to stand 30 seconds in the circle to flip a cleared camp. So what you say is not possible.

@topic: reworking wvw to basically only multiplayer or cheese camp clear build content will kill the population of game mode faster than anything else.

Classic elitism nonsense of players that lost every sense for reality.

[Justine.6351]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:I think this has little to do with NPCs; they're fairly strong after the Power nerfs, sure they go down easy if you have a full set of infusions and the relevant masteries, but to a new player they're rather challenging especially if reinforced by mercenaries. Its not uncommon for a newbie to wipe to a camp, and I even see it happen to veteran players from time to time if they make a mistake.

The camp being taken too quickly is a problem though, they throw up swords way too late.

One possible solution is to make the "cave" camps have very weak gates at each entrance, weak enough to be destroyed by a single player without siege, and the "open air" camps could have a force field around them with a generator that needs to be destroyed.

Maybe even a few extra normal guards on the outside.

The idea here is not to turn it into another PvD objective but just buy a bit of time, with higher tier camps taking more effort to reward the side that defended them long enough to be upgraded, given how hard camps are to prevent being flipped.

It would also add tactics: Players could repair the barriers to create a trap for enemies already inside.

Sounds like desert borderland 2.0

If they have time to repair and trap players in they have time to just stand in a camp with NPCs to deter them away.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

@Justine.6351 said:

Uh yeah that's kind of our point. It takes experience to counter roam but not a lot to be effective and knowing who is going where. David is certainly someone with much experience and understands our angle on it.Was it not clear that I feel they are too weak? I like his idea of being able to iron guards camps again, because as I was saying they die too easily, and as I was correctedby KrHome the actual circle defends the camp better than the guards do. Yes the circle defends the camp better than the guards just because it takes more time to cap it solo than it does to kill all the guards. I have never thought of it that way until now but it seems strange.

[NuhDah.9812]

I agree they should change the guards a bit, to attack the ranger instead of the pet, or the necromancer with pierce instead of the thousand minions they carry with them and have some dmg reduction to aoe spam fields. Hopefully that way they would be a bit of challenge to those who think that their overtunned abilities against moobs actually makes the camp guards too easy.

[archmagus.7249]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I want the NPCs to res me.

D:

You can only get a res off a vet rank or higher npc.

But I do think they need to make them a bit more durable. Especially against mercenaries; making it so that all camp npcs take half damage from other npcs, except for dolyaks. Also make it so that iron hide reduces condition damage as well. Upgrade camp supervisors to elite.

As for how long it takes to cap, cap the % per tick to 4%. That should give defenders ample time to defend the camp.

And sentries, if the sentry is killed, it starts an attack/defend event. If the attackers fill the bar, they win and claim it. If the defenders refill the bar and hold it until the event ends, then they will win the defense.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i disagree with removing the keep guards. they are fine. nobody cares really about them. the do not do hard dmg even against paper gear, if u have the wxp investment there, which u should have anyways.

they should only move the silly NPCs that are neutral hostile or yellow. like the Arcotdus, the Wolves, the moas, the stalkers, the skrelk etc etc

[archmagus.7249]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:i disagree with removing the keep guards. they are fine. nobody cares really about them. the do not do hard dmg even against paper gear, if u have the wxp investment there, which u should have anyways.

they should only move the silly NPCs that are neutral hostile or yellow. like the Arcotdus, the Wolves, the moas, the stalkers, the skrelk etc etc

I agree with you on the keep guards. It would make it way too easy for one or two people to take even a t3 keep. If they did remove guards, then maybe increase the health of all walls and gates, make gates and perma-seige immune to player damage and conditions. Players on perma-seige gain 3s of defiance every 3s; defiance can only be removed by ballistas, and upgraded shots will knock back in addition to removing defiance. Camps get their supervisor upgraded to elite, and only get NPC protection from adjacent mercenaries. Lords/Supervisors take half damage and condition damage from other npc's. If no assaulting players are in the ring when the defense event ends, the lord/supervisor will be ressed. In addition, double the supply cost of every seige weapon type except for shield gen and treb. This forces a larger amount of people to carry supply to take out an objective.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

Uh yeah that's kind of our point. It takes experience to counter roam but not a lot to be effective and knowing who is going where. David is certainly someone with much experience and understands our angle on it.Was it not clear that I feel they are too weak? I like his idea of being able to iron guards camps again, because as I was saying they die too easily, and as I was correctedby KrHome the actual circle defends the camp better than the guards do. Yes the circle defends the camp better than the guards just because it takes more time to cap it solo than it does to kill all the guards. I have never thought of it that way until now but it seems strange.

Why do some people insist on making everything automated. Upgrades already take care of themselves and people still want stronger objective defenses. Then we have stuff like this where people are asking for stronger NPC's to defend camps. If you want the game to do everything for you just program a bot for godsake. You have to actually fight players and engage in combat if you want to keep stuff, that's why NPC's aren't strong enough to defend against experienced players, to encourage combat.

A T3'd camp is pretty tough even for a veteran player, a T3 camp with Mercenaries (EBG) is tough no matter what build you're using, and some builds will struggle to handle it at all. NPC's are perfectly fine and they serve their purpose.

[Shroud.2307]

If you don't care enough to scout objectives, you don't care enough to keep them.

[Svarty.8019]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I want the NPCs to res me.

D:

I think the charr guards used to rez players, although in my old age remembering is always factual.

NPCs did revive fallen players for a time.

D:

If you die at spawn (somehow), the NPC you spawn on at the waypoint will rez you.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I want the NPCs to res me.

D:

I think the charr guards used to rez players, although in my old age remembering is always factual.

NPCs did revive fallen players for a time.

D:

If you die at spawn (somehow), the NPC you spawn on at the waypoint will rez you.

Necro can KMS with blood is power (and some other self afflicted conditions). I don't think it works in spawn though.

D:

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@"Svarty.8019"if u are in a queue and in battle, then port to another map bc queue pops, you get spawned for example to alpine border as "dead", and exactly: the npc there revives you (while u could also just klick the waypoint button again to spawn at full health but w/e)

and i really think it'd be cool if guards could still survive you.