On Condi Guardian/DH/Firebrand in PvP

[Tayga.3192]

@Dantheman.3589 said:Doesn’t mean a lot imo. We all know guardian is just over all great in many areas as far as ranked pug stomps. Doesn’t mean u can bring it against good players

It works in ranked, even against good players to a degree. The problem is it's useless in any AT or mAT.

[TrOtskY.5927]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Doesn’t mean a lot imo. We all know guardian is just over all great in many areas as far as ranked pug stomps. Doesn’t mean u can bring it against good players

It works in ranked, even against good players to a degree. The problem is it's useless in any AT or mAT.

It's literally just a mobility issue, Guardian is not tanky like Necro and can't run away like Holo/Ranger/Thief. Dragon Hunter is mobile but kinda bad. Guardian as awhole has just never been ideal in organised 5v5. @ollbirtan.2915 said:

@TrOtskY.5927 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@TrOtskY.5927 said:I am surprised nobody is mentioning sword of justice in this thread. With 3 hit passive trait and eternal armoury) any multi hit onto a point with the ability applies not only the burning per sword swing to everyone affected, it also applies the passive multiple times , for example hitting downed player 4 times and resser twice results in two extra passive procs in aoe which is just the tip of the iceberg. Hitting multiple players with multiple hits of the sword results in just insane aoe burning damage. It might be the strongest res punisher in the game

I haven't seen anyone above g2 run SOJ. It's only semi viable in WvW zergs, not in sPvP. It's clunky, has an awkward aftercast, and it's suuuuuuper easy to avoid/....by paying minimal attention to your surroundings. If I were to take a spirit weapon, I'd rather take the Shield of the Avenger - less 'potential' damage, but super easy to land, and as a bonus it applies weakness.

P.S. After all the complains on the forums about so called "OP" res skills/traits. I'm surprised to see calls to, apparently, 'the best res punisher'.

I'm using it in plat to great success. It's a hard skill to use, however you can land soj on anyone that does not cleanse scepter 3, you can force decap extremely easily with it, you cleave like a madman with it. Guardian utility skills suck anyway and with a damage build you may as well take more damage.

These are just my experiences from playing with it in ranked, it has been extremely successful so far, and the build is blatantly carrying me above my skill level. I guess this is what necro feels like.

I agree that under certain conditions SOJ can literally wipe the enemy team...but from my experience, even if you successfully wipe / decap the node with SOJ, a somewhat organised team would then regroup and you will become the first target for hard focus. Given the fact that you must pretty much sacrifice your defence utilities / traits to achieve high damage with SOJ, you have very little chance of survival under the enemy team's hard focus.P.S. This is ofcourse, my personal experience with SOJ.

All guardian builds have extremely difficult time with hard focus, and it has nothing to do with sword of justice. Core/FB are terrible under heavy pressure, because they have no mobility (unless taking Greatsword, but then you auto-lose the game beyond mid gold because heavy melee is terrible in pvp)

[otto.5684]

@TrOtskY.5927 said:I am surprised nobody is mentioning sword of justice in this thread. With 3 hit passive trait and eternal armoury) any multi hit onto a point with the ability applies not only the burning per sword swing to everyone affected, it also applies the passive multiple times , for example hitting downed player 4 times and resser twice results in two extra passive procs in aoe which is just the tip of the iceberg. Hitting multiple players with multiple hits of the sword results in just insane aoe burning damage. It might be the strongest res punisher in the game

Beside hitting downed players SoJ won’t do much. > @haenz.9578 said:

Can someone give me a link to the burn guard build pls with torch?I have tried Zeal / Virtues / Radiance with Sw/F and Sc/To.Very very big damage but I die so fast.

Is this not the right build?

TY for help!!!

Not linking all of it.Sage.Smoldering and energy sigils.Lynx runes.I use sword and torch plus mace and shield. But there is flexibility here as long as you are using torch in one off hand.Virtues/radiance/valorI use mediation utilities across the board plus Save Yourselves. You can go full mediation though.

If you are not running FB always run valor. Always.

[Zephoid.4263]

@haenz.9578 said:

@haenz.9578 said:Can someone give me a link to the burn guard build pls with torch?I have tried Zeal / Virtues / Radiance with Sw/F and Sc/To.Very very big damage but I die so fast.

Is this not the right build?

TY for help!!!

No one :(

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABs6x/lVw8YgsP2IW0OqLNA-z5YfKJICyUBkvQIgJgjHA

This is why i was saying you need all 3 lines. If you are running zeal, you lose all of your sustainability that you gain from meditations. 5 meditations + lesser smite condi give you ~9000 hp just for casts, which mitigates your low hp pool and helps you recover your hp after disengaging/after opponent disengages. The build also has a ton of instant casts, which is one of the reasons its one of the best core classes. It doesn't need the glut of quickness that most elite specs rely on.

[Sifu.9745]

I don't use Torch. I prefer shield/scepter + sword/focus: more defense, while dmg loss is irrelevant.It's funny how fast i can kill some players ... And survivability is not bad at all. A build with 16 -18k health gets way better survivability than 30k health pool Reaper while also doing triple dmg of Reaper and requires no effort at all. Anet can buff Reaper health pool for 50% and dmg for 50% but i would still choose a Burning guardian over this useless class.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Sifu.9745 said:I don't use Torch. I prefer shield/scepter + sword/focus: more defense, while dmg loss is irrelevant.It's funny how fast i can kill some players ... And survivability is not bad at all. A build with 16 -18k health gets way better survivability than 30k health pool Reaper while also doing triple dmg of Reaper and requires no effort at all. Anet can buff Reaper health pool for 50% and dmg for 50% but i would still choose a Burning guardian over this useless class.

A good report will melt a burn guard and won't even notice. sorry

[Shao.7236]

Let's get out of that way that with little cleanse or unsupervised, burn guards in generals can be really devastating but certainly not unbeatable. Yes it's easy to monitor and avoid them, but you don't want to be carelessly using skills because they are still guards and any skills that you waste on a aegis or blind will backfire pretty fast.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Zephoid.4263 said:FB and DH don't have a viable burn build. Both gain little to nothing from the elite spec and you NEED 3 trait lines to make burn guard viable. Drop any of the 3 and you drop all of your durability from meditations or drop a lot of your burn damage.

DH is better than base guard for burning, lots more mobility and sustain.

[Shiyo.3578]

@aelska.4609 said:Fun thing about burn guard is that the only few builds it counters are quite cancerous by themselves:

• Stone earth tempest
• rangers (any kind)
• deadeyes
• renegade
• rezbots (any kind)

While it is inefficient vs nearly all the other builds.You are fighting a build that has no stability, very limited defenses and the lowest mobility in game. It can surprise you once, but it's about all.I'm not saying it doesn't deserve nerfs. Just saying that amongst all the noob-friendly mechanics we have out there, this one might be the most counterable.

F3, renewed focus, F again, focus 5 is a ton of blocks/invuls.

F2 is decent mobility.

The amount of survival is why burn guards so annoying. You have to be incredibly careful, avoiding all their burns and cleansing them while getting through all their invuls and blocks and hoping you don't get randomly 1 shot by burn while doing so.

[KrHome.1920]

@aelska.4609 said:Fun thing about burn guard is that the only few builds it counters are quite cancerous by themselves:

• Stone earth tempest
• rangers (any kind)
• deadeyes
• renegade
• rezbots (any kind)

While it is inefficient vs nearly all the other builds.You are fighting a build that has no stability, very limited defenses and the lowest mobility in game. It can surprise you once, but it's about all.I'm not saying it doesn't deserve nerfs. Just saying that amongst all the noob-friendly mechanics we have out there, this one might be the most counterable.True. Any spectral walk or death magic necro hardcounters it. Just pop SW or shroud and facetank the guard. Even in wvw, where it is much stronger, the build is a joke.

Builds without a cleanse over time skill or trait just need to do what necro can't (kite) and time their cleanses well enough, which is absolutely not difficult. Wait until a few burn stacks are built up before you cleanse and you are fine. You don't even have to manage the remaining condis to be sure to cleanse the burn and not some trash condi instead as there is just burn and nothing else.

What makes the build strong are players

• not watching their condi bar,
• playing without cleanses,
• facetank a target that blocks and attacks at the same time,
• stand in aoe,
• never heard about timing the own offense and defense and just mash buttons

[Zephoid.4263]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@aelska.4609 said:Fun thing about burn guard is that the only few builds it counters are quite cancerous by themselves:

• Stone earth tempest
• rangers (any kind)
• deadeyes
• renegade
• rezbots (any kind)

While it is inefficient vs nearly all the other builds.You are fighting a build that has no stability, very limited defenses and the lowest mobility in game. It can surprise you once, but it's about all.I'm not saying it doesn't deserve nerfs. Just saying that amongst all the noob-friendly mechanics we have out there, this one might be the most counterable.

F3, renewed focus, F again, focus 5 is a ton of blocks/invuls.

F2 is decent mobility.

The amount of survival is why burn guards so annoying. You have to be incredibly careful, avoiding all their burns and cleansing them while getting through all their invuls and blocks and hoping you don't get randomly 1 shot by burn while doing so.

F2 isn't mobility except on DH.Focus 5 is 3 blocks and its really hard to use focus on burn guard since torch and shield are so great.

Burn guard is super susceptible to burst. Its also has no good range. There are plenty of weaknesses to exploit here.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@aelska.4609 said:Fun thing about burn guard is that the only few builds it counters are quite cancerous by themselves:

• Stone earth tempest
• rangers (any kind)
• deadeyes
• renegade
• rezbots (any kind)

While it is inefficient vs nearly all the other builds.You are fighting a build that has no stability, very limited defenses and the lowest mobility in game. It can surprise you once, but it's about all.I'm not saying it doesn't deserve nerfs. Just saying that amongst all the noob-friendly mechanics we have out there, this one might be the most counterable.

F3, renewed focus, F again, focus 5 is a ton of blocks/invuls.

F2 is decent mobility.

The amount of survival is why burn guards so annoying. You have to be incredibly careful, avoiding all their burns and cleansing them while getting through all their invuls and blocks and hoping you don't get randomly 1 shot by burn while doing so.

F2 isn't mobility except on DH.Focus 5 is 3 blocks and its really hard to use focus on burn guard since torch and shield are so great.

Burn guard is super susceptible to burst. Its also has no good range. There are plenty of weaknesses to exploit here.

I was talking about DH.

Burn guard is less susceptible to burst than any other DPS guard build as it runs carrion amulet + balth runes(or traveler/lynx/speed) and thus has lots of HP.

Warriot has no good range and people rarely complained about that during warrior meta days.