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New weapon types study - Knuckles, Polearms, Spears, Relics, and more


Lonami.2987

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@Lonami.2987 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:The original idea feels somewhat outdated, and I have changed a few opinions since I posted it, in part thanks to everyone contributing. So I guess it's time for an update!

Here's my new take, I'm a bit less rigid with the animation department this time, and I'm going harder for the cool factor too. I still think this set is fairly viable, and includes more variety, with more potential for originality. Hope you like it!

New weapons

These are my 6 ideal weapons, for a total of 22.
  • Fists:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. They replace active glove skins when wielded.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Mostly ranged usage.
  • Bell:
    Off-hand. Percussion instrument, played to vibrate ambient magic. Connected to geomancy.
  • Vial:
    Off-hand. Container of liquid which can be drunk, spilled, or thrown. Includes bottles of wine, magic potions, steins of beer, barrels, and more.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more.
  • Relic:
    Two-handed. Magical artifact inspired by the old guardian tomes. Floats on the left hand, while you cast with the right hand. Includes books of magic, astrolabes, cauldrons, musical instruments, ashes, tablets, and more.

Each core profession would unlock two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist: Bell, Relic.
  • Mesmer: Vial, Relic.
  • Necromancer: Bell, Polearm.
  • Engineer: Fists, Vial.
  • Ranger: Spear, Bell.
  • Thief: Fists, Spear.
  • Guardian: Spear, Relic.
  • Revenant: Fists, Polearm.
  • Warrior: Vial, Polearm.

Underwater weapons

You might have noticed I didn't count the 3 underwater weapons when counting above. That's because I'm merging them with some of the ground weapons. They would remain separate equipment-wise, but use the same skin pool.
  • Harpoon (old spear) merges with polearm.
  • Speargun (old harpoon gun) merges with rifle.
  • Trident merges with staff.

You would still need to craft them separately, so for example, you wouldn't be able to use a trident as a staff. This merge only covers skins, effectively removing underwater weapons from the wardrobe.

Updates to old weapons

Other potential new weapons would be included inside the existing types. Few examples:
  • Axes now include chakrams, boomerangs, and other thrown blades.
  • Daggers now include fans.
  • Maces now include one-handed hammers.
  • Rifles now include crossbows.
  • Shortbows now include slingshots.

I feel like this model is much more solid than my previous idea, and also includes more exciting new options.

Bonus: New legendary weapons

Because, why not?
  • Fists:
    Steam-powered mecha-hands, the wrists rotate in combat like a drill.
  • Spear:
    GW1's
    , this time with more lightning.
  • Bell:
    Instead of a handheld bell, a floating familiar carries a Canthan jade tower bell by your side, and you pull the rope to play it. Includes musical instrument toy version.
  • Vial:
    A whole barrel of the legendary norn beer, Bear's Brown Ale. Your character occasionally makes drunk jokes. Frost effect, plus tiny pink elephants appear around you.
  • Polearm:
    Dual-bladed djinn elemental scythe, effects changing from fire to ice. Aura and footsteps change their effects as well, synchronized with the weapon.
  • Relic:
    Cauldron of Cataclysm, a handheld replica of the artifact behind the Searing of Ascalon.

Time for another update:

New weapons

These are my 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.
  • Satchel:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Thrown, inspired by the
    of the engineer.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Melee and thrown.
  • Battlegloves:
    Two-handed. They replace active glove skins when wielded. Melee and ranged.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more. Melee.

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist:
    Battlegloves.
  • Mesmer:
    Satchel.
  • Necromancer:
    Polearm.
  • Engineer:
    Satchel, Battlegloves.
  • Ranger:
    Spear.
  • Thief:
    Satchel, Battlegloves.
  • Guardian:
    Spear.
  • Revenant:
    Polearm.
  • Warrior:
    Spear, Polearm.

I feel like these four are more solid than the six I had before. Few design notes:
  • Off-hand weapons weren't engaging enough, and feel a bit like filler, so I just removed them. Both the Vial and the Bell could return as weapon kits, slot skills, bundles, or just animations.
  • Satchel gives us more thrown options, and allows grenade-like gameplay to expand outside engineer. I consider it an evolution of the Vial. It would replace the Grenade Kit on the engineer.
  • Fists were renamed to Battlegloves, and reclassified as two-handed. Figured out the weapon skills would feel better if they used both hands for everything. They would be usable for both melee combat and casting magical ranged attacks.
  • Relic is gone, since it felt a bit clunky. Still has potential as a weapon kit profession mechanic, with dedicated skins.
  • Spear and Polearm were already solid enough, so they stay the same.

Bonus: Elite specialization ideas

Few elite specialization ideas, using both new and repurposed weapon types:
  • Elementalist - Dervish:
    Polearm (scythe skin).
  • Mesmer - Dreamcharmer:
    Dagger (fan skin).
  • Necromancer - Apothecary:
    Satchel (plague bomb skin).
  • Ranger - Beastlord:
    Polearm (greataxe skin).
  • Thief - Bladewind:
    Axe (boomerang skin).
  • Guardian - Paragon:
    Polearm (two-handed spear skin).
  • Revenant - Hierophant:
    Battlegloves (
    ).
  • Warrior - Gladiator:
    Staff (trident skin).

Been a while since the last time, here's another take, combining the best of all previous ideas:

New weapons

These are my latest 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.

  • Battleglove: One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. They replace active glove skins when wielded. Melee and ranged.
  • Spear: One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Melee and thrown.
  • Polearm: Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more. Melee.
  • Relic: Two-handed. Magical artifact inspired by GW1's ritualist item spells. Floats on the left hand, while you cast with the right hand. Includes astrolabes, cauldrons, musical instruments, ashes, tablets, and more. Ranged.

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:

  • Elementalist: Battlegloves, Relic.
  • Mesmer: Relic.
  • Necromancer: Polearm.
  • Engineer: Battlegloves.
  • Ranger: Spear.
  • Thief: Battlegloves.
  • Guardian: Spear.
  • Revenant: Polearm, Relic.
  • Warrior: Spear, Polearm.

Few design notes:

  • Satchels don't convince me as "wielded weapons" anymore, and I feel like they would work far better as kits or thrown skills, as long as they're handled properly, like new elite specialization mechanics, an elixir rework, or just a new slot skill type altogether.
  • Battlegloves are back to one-handed. There might be situations where a single battleglove could combine well with other one-handed weapons, and the two-handed restriction wasn't mandatory anyway.
  • Relic is back, since I still feel like we need more magical weapons. However, this time it draws inspiration from GW1's ritualist item spells. It's no longer inspired by guardian tomes, which would remain exclusive to the firebrand's elite specialization mechanic's theme.
  • Spear and Polearm still remain solid enough, so they stay the same once again.

Well, I think this is a pretty good final version, but who knows, new ideas might change everything in a few months once again =).

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@"Conncept.7638" said:I cannot believe you don't have tomes on the first priority list.

  • Like the underwater weapons, they are, or were, already in game.
  • As a magic weapon, it would be more particle effect driven, requiring way less animation work than any martial weapon.
  • There are no caster weapons left. The game only launched with three, already available to every caster profession. There is so much design space left for more traditional spellcasting, but no magic weapons to place traditional spellcasting skills on.
  • And finally, we already have a profession that should have had it, the axe makes absolutely no sense for the firebrand and was clearly a tacked on compromise on the firebrands aesthetic and theme. We have a sophisticated mystical librarian and lorekeeper, wielding the most primitive, brutish, barbaric weapon in the game.

I think the axe actually makes sense for firebrand and this also showcases the issue I see with new weapon types.There is simply no need for new weapon types in this game, since every profession still has weapon slots open and if these weapons make sense on them or not is up to interpretation.

Like someone already mentioned, we have a dueling mage using a greatsword.... At first, this might sound strange. But they use this weapon to channel their magic and summon magical sword illusions to throw at their enemies.

Or the firebrand: You say it makes no sense that we have a sophisticated librarian wielding the "most primitive, brutish, barbaric weapon in the game".Now I think you can interpret what you said there in a different way... where you see something "primitive", I say "traditional". In real world, axes were some of the most ancient weapons used by humanity. For me, the firebrand is also about tradition, especially as a lorekeeper. And it makes sense that they are wielding the weapons of their ancestors, axes, even if these might seem less refined than other weapons.

Anet has proven to be creative with their weapon designs and especially the magic wielding classes should not have any problems to use the weapons available in unexpected ways. All needed is that they come up with a coherent theme, which I think they succeeded with so far.

So I personally prefer if we stick to the already established weapons, especially since introducing new weapon types could create a huge problem with balance.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:Calling them battlegloves is stupid. Its just so over the top. Like calling a dagger a "warspike" or calling a staff a "siegepole".

I dont approve unless they are called punchmittens.

The intention here is most likely to make a clear differentiation between the armor gloves and weapon gloves. If you just call them gloves or gauntlets, then there is the potential that these 2 get confused for armor pieces instead.

Also we need hydraulic power gloves for the engineer, something big for smashing, like the gauntlets Vi has from League of Legends or the brawlers from TERA.

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  • 1 month later...

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:The original idea feels somewhat outdated, and I have changed a few opinions since I posted it, in part thanks to everyone contributing. So I guess it's time for an update!

Here's my new take, I'm a bit less rigid with the animation department this time, and I'm going harder for the cool factor too. I still think this set is fairly viable, and includes more variety, with more potential for originality. Hope you like it!

New weapons

These are my 6 ideal weapons, for a total of 22.
  • Fists:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. They replace active glove skins when wielded.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Mostly ranged usage.
  • Bell:
    Off-hand. Percussion instrument, played to vibrate ambient magic. Connected to geomancy.
  • Vial:
    Off-hand. Container of liquid which can be drunk, spilled, or thrown. Includes bottles of wine, magic potions, steins of beer, barrels, and more.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more.
  • Relic:
    Two-handed. Magical artifact inspired by the old guardian tomes. Floats on the left hand, while you cast with the right hand. Includes books of magic, astrolabes, cauldrons, musical instruments, ashes, tablets, and more.

Each core profession would unlock two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist: Bell, Relic.
  • Mesmer: Vial, Relic.
  • Necromancer: Bell, Polearm.
  • Engineer: Fists, Vial.
  • Ranger: Spear, Bell.
  • Thief: Fists, Spear.
  • Guardian: Spear, Relic.
  • Revenant: Fists, Polearm.
  • Warrior: Vial, Polearm.

Underwater weapons

You might have noticed I didn't count the 3 underwater weapons when counting above. That's because I'm merging them with some of the ground weapons. They would remain separate equipment-wise, but use the same skin pool.
  • Harpoon (old spear) merges with polearm.
  • Speargun (old harpoon gun) merges with rifle.
  • Trident merges with staff.

You would still need to craft them separately, so for example, you wouldn't be able to use a trident as a staff. This merge only covers skins, effectively removing underwater weapons from the wardrobe.

Updates to old weapons

Other potential new weapons would be included inside the existing types. Few examples:
  • Axes now include chakrams, boomerangs, and other thrown blades.
  • Daggers now include fans.
  • Maces now include one-handed hammers.
  • Rifles now include crossbows.
  • Shortbows now include slingshots.

I feel like this model is much more solid than my previous idea, and also includes more exciting new options.

Bonus: New legendary weapons

Because, why not?
  • Fists:
    Steam-powered mecha-hands, the wrists rotate in combat like a drill.
  • Spear:
    GW1's
    , this time with more lightning.
  • Bell:
    Instead of a handheld bell, a floating familiar carries a Canthan jade tower bell by your side, and you pull the rope to play it. Includes musical instrument toy version.
  • Vial:
    A whole barrel of the legendary norn beer, Bear's Brown Ale. Your character occasionally makes drunk jokes. Frost effect, plus tiny pink elephants appear around you.
  • Polearm:
    Dual-bladed djinn elemental scythe, effects changing from fire to ice. Aura and footsteps change their effects as well, synchronized with the weapon.
  • Relic:
    Cauldron of Cataclysm, a handheld replica of the artifact behind the Searing of Ascalon.

Time for another update:

New weapons

These are my 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.
  • Satchel:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Thrown, inspired by the
    of the engineer.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Melee and thrown.
  • Battlegloves:
    Two-handed. They replace active glove skins when wielded. Melee and ranged.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more. Melee.

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist:
    Battlegloves.
  • Mesmer:
    Satchel.
  • Necromancer:
    Polearm.
  • Engineer:
    Satchel, Battlegloves.
  • Ranger:
    Spear.
  • Thief:
    Satchel, Battlegloves.
  • Guardian:
    Spear.
  • Revenant:
    Polearm.
  • Warrior:
    Spear, Polearm.

I feel like these four are more solid than the six I had before. Few design notes:
  • Off-hand weapons weren't engaging enough, and feel a bit like filler, so I just removed them. Both the Vial and the Bell could return as weapon kits, slot skills, bundles, or just animations.
  • Satchel gives us more thrown options, and allows grenade-like gameplay to expand outside engineer. I consider it an evolution of the Vial. It would replace the Grenade Kit on the engineer.
  • Fists were renamed to Battlegloves, and reclassified as two-handed. Figured out the weapon skills would feel better if they used both hands for everything. They would be usable for both melee combat and casting magical ranged attacks.
  • Relic is gone, since it felt a bit clunky. Still has potential as a weapon kit profession mechanic, with dedicated skins.
  • Spear and Polearm were already solid enough, so they stay the same.

Bonus: Elite specialization ideas

Few elite specialization ideas, using both new and repurposed weapon types:
  • Elementalist - Dervish:
    Polearm (scythe skin).
  • Mesmer - Dreamcharmer:
    Dagger (fan skin).
  • Necromancer - Apothecary:
    Satchel (plague bomb skin).
  • Ranger - Beastlord:
    Polearm (greataxe skin).
  • Thief - Bladewind:
    Axe (boomerang skin).
  • Guardian - Paragon:
    Polearm (two-handed spear skin).
  • Revenant - Hierophant:
    Battlegloves (
    ).
  • Warrior - Gladiator:
    Staff (trident skin).

Been a while since the last time, here's another take, combining the best of all previous ideas:

New weapons

These are my latest 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.
  • Battleglove:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. They replace active glove skins when wielded. Melee and ranged.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Melee and thrown.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more. Melee.
  • Relic:
    Two-handed. Magical artifact inspired by
    . Floats on the left hand, while you cast with the right hand. Includes astrolabes, cauldrons, musical instruments, ashes, tablets, and more. Ranged.

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist: Battlegloves, Relic.
  • Mesmer: Relic.
  • Necromancer: Polearm.
  • Engineer: Battlegloves.
  • Ranger: Spear.
  • Thief: Battlegloves.
  • Guardian: Spear.
  • Revenant: Polearm, Relic.
  • Warrior: Spear, Polearm.

Few design notes:
  • Satchels don't convince me as "wielded weapons" anymore, and I feel like they would work far better as kits or thrown skills, as long as they're handled properly, like new elite specialization mechanics, an elixir rework, or just a new slot skill type altogether.
  • Battlegloves are back to one-handed. There might be situations where a single battleglove could combine well with other one-handed weapons, and the two-handed restriction wasn't mandatory anyway.
  • Relic is back, since I still feel like we need more magical weapons. However, this time it draws inspiration from
    . It's no longer inspired by guardian tomes, which would remain exclusive to the firebrand's elite specialization mechanic's theme.
  • Spear and Polearm still remain solid enough, so they stay the same once again.

Well, I think this is a pretty good final version, but who knows, new ideas might change everything in a few months once again =).

Let's go for another round:

New weapon types

These are my 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.

Few design notes:

  • Battlegloves have been renamed to Knuckles, and no longer replace glove skins by default.
  • Spear has been restricted to main-hand only. I know there's multiple enemies ingame who wield spears in both hands, but you never get to actually see them use the second hand.
  • No changes for Polearm and Relic.

Core professions update

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:

  • Elementalist: Relic.
  • Mesmer: Relic.
  • Necromancer: Polearm.
  • Engineer: Knuckles.
  • Ranger: Spear.
  • Thief: Knuckles.
  • Guardian: Spear, Relic.
  • Revenant: Knuckles, Polearm.
  • Warrior: Spear, Polearm.

Updates to wardrobe restrictions

Some of the new weapons already "exist" as skins for other weapon types. The easiest solution would be to duplicate them across the different types, but what if we took it further, and removed some of the type-based wardrobe restrictions?

For example, we could enable usage of trident or polearm skins on a staff, removing the need for duplicates and increasing overall skin value.

The lifted restrictions would be as follows:

  • Focus ⬅ Scepter, Knuckles.
  • Longbow ⬅ Shortbow.
  • Rifle ⬅ Speargun.
  • Shortbow ⬅ Longbow.
  • Scepter ⬅ Mace.
  • Spear ⬅ Harpoon, Trident.
  • Staff ⬅ Polearm, Spear, Harpoon, Trident.

Underwater weapons would be affected as well:

  • Harpoon ⬅ Polearm, Spear, Trident.
  • Speargun ⬅ Rifle.
  • Trident ⬅ Polearm, Spear, Staff, Harpoon.

This idea can be applied to armor skins too:

  • Back item ⬅ Shield (stowed).
  • Aquatic Headgear ⬅ Headgear.

Once these restrictions have been lifted, the existing conflictive skins can be reclassified easily with no need for duplicates. For example, existing scythe-like staff skins would be transformed into polearm skins, and be usable by both polearms and staves. Some foci skins such as the Chak Focus or the Mist Lord's Focus would be transformed into knuckles skins, and be usable by both knuckles and foci.

@Kodama.6453 said:So I personally prefer if we stick to the already established weapons, especially since introducing new weapon types could create a huge problem with balance.

What balance problems? Weapon types have no gameplay impact, they're just skin families. There's no difference between giving the warrior a staff or a polearm, since the real work lies at the new weapon skills.

@Kodama.6453 said:Also we need hydraulic power gloves for the engineer, something big for smashing, like the gauntlets Vi has from League of Legends or the brawlers from TERA.

A fellow man of culture, I see =).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Lonami, just read through your post, and I think you have wonderful ideas. I wanted to address this point here:

@"Lonami.2987" said:

  • Spear: Could be adapted for main-hand and off-hand usage.
  • Harpoon gun: Doesn’t make a lot of sense at land, but some of the simplest existing skins, as well as future skins, could be adapted to depict crossbows instead.
  • Trident: With the spear being one-handed, the trident would remain relevant as a two-handed longspear of sorts.

So I've mentioned this idea before, but I think an absolutely great way to add weapon variety into the game with this new expac would be to:

  1. Add in 1-3 entirely new weapon types. Almost every new elite spec would be getting one of these
  2. Additionally, make underwater weapons amphibious and let one or both of them be available for core classes.

So with this, the expac would bring 2-3 new weapons for everyone.

Second point there could be accomplished through narrative quite easily imo. There could be something in the expac about "repurposing" underwater weapons as land weapons due to their effectiveness at taking down underwater creatures (that are on land/floating in the air.... because Elder Dragon magic).

Spear --> repurposed into a one-handed melee weapon, very similar to Paragon from GW1Trident --> repurposed into the two-handed polearm (2h spear). Similar to GS, maybe slightly lower dps, but more versatile (has some range on its attacks, variety of moveset, like blocks, parries, leaps, evades, a thrown attack, rapid-hitting attacks, wide-range melee aoe)Harpoon gun --> repurposed into either an explosive weapon, or a crossbow/crossbowgun.

For the land version of harpoon gun, so many different things could be done with this - it could be a 2h mid-range weapon that focuses on large AOEs and is a bit on the slower side, it could be a 1h ranged weapon that focuses more on CC and AOE than pistol, or it could be an off-hand only weapon that has a lot of utility, kind of like the Clutch Claw in Monster Hunter World. Sky's the limit, yo.

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@Klowdy.3126 said:Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

Firebrand and?

I love the Idea of adding tomes to more classes.I think is pretty hard to they implement new weapons, there's a lot of things to do if so.More balance(The current one is already a mess)More skins(The hardest part, there are a lot of skins to make)Which classes are going to get it?Too much job for something not so required, I think.If they are going to put new weapons, it will probably be added as mechanics or skills (Conjures, kits, tomes ...)

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@JohnWater.5760 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

Firebrand and?

I love the Idea of adding tomes to more classes.I think is pretty hard to they implement new weapons, there's a lot of things to do if so.
More balance(The current one is already a mess)
More skins(The hardest part, there are a lot of skins to make)
Which classes are going to get it?
Too much job for something not so required, I think.If they are going to put new weapons, it will probably be added as mechanics or skills (Conjures, kits, tomes ...)

Tomes are like Attunements

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@Arcaedus.7290 said:Hey Lonami, just read through your post, and I think you have wonderful ideas. I wanted to address this point here:

@"Lonami.2987" said:
  • Spear:
    Could be adapted for main-hand and off-hand usage.
  • Harpoon gun:
    Doesn’t make a lot of sense at land, but some of the simplest existing skins, as well as future skins, could be adapted to depict crossbows instead.
  • Trident:
    With the spear being one-handed, the trident would remain relevant as a two-handed longspear of sorts.

So I've mentioned this idea before, but I think an absolutely great way to add weapon variety into the game with this new expac would be to:
  1. Add in 1-3 entirely new weapon types. Almost every new elite spec would be getting one of these
  2. Additionally, make underwater weapons amphibious and let one or both of them be available for core classes.

So with this, the expac would bring 2-3 new weapons for everyone.

Second point there could be accomplished through narrative quite easily imo. There could be something in the expac about "repurposing" underwater weapons as land weapons due to their effectiveness at taking down underwater creatures (that are on land/floating in the air.... because Elder Dragon magic).

Spear --> repurposed into a one-handed melee weapon, very similar to Paragon from GW1Trident --> repurposed into the two-handed polearm (2h spear). Similar to GS, maybe slightly lower dps, but more versatile (has some range on its attacks, variety of moveset, like blocks, parries, leaps, evades, a thrown attack, rapid-hitting attacks, wide-range melee aoe)Harpoon gun --> repurposed into either an explosive weapon, or a crossbow/crossbowgun.

For the land version of harpoon gun, so many different things could be done with this - it could be a 2h mid-range weapon that focuses on large AOEs and is a bit on the slower side, it could be a 1h ranged weapon that focuses more on CC and AOE than pistol, or it could be an off-hand only weapon that has a lot of utility, kind of like the Clutch Claw in Monster Hunter World. Sky's the limit, yo.

You replied to the oldest version, I've posted multiple updates across the thread, last one here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1320850/#Comment_1320850 :P.

I wouldn't bring underwater weapons into land anymore, only their skins. Underwater weapons are pretty bad anyway.

@JohnWater.5760 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

Firebrand and?

I love the Idea of adding tomes to more classes.I think is pretty hard to they implement new weapons, there's a lot of things to do if so.
More balance(The current one is already a mess)
More skins(The hardest part, there are a lot of skins to make)
Which classes are going to get it?
Too much job for something not so required, I think.If they are going to put new weapons, it will probably be added as mechanics or skills (Conjures, kits, tomes ...)

They don't need to make skins for all the missing sets... they haven't done that for underwater weapons since many years ago.

@VocalThought.9835 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

Firebrand and?

I love the Idea of adding tomes to more classes.I think is pretty hard to they implement new weapons, there's a lot of things to do if so.
More balance(The current one is already a mess)
More skins(The hardest part, there are a lot of skins to make)
Which classes are going to get it?
Too much job for something not so required, I think.If they are going to put new weapons, it will probably be added as mechanics or skills (Conjures, kits, tomes ...)

Tomes are like Attunements

More like engineer kits, really.

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@Lonami.2987 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:Hey Lonami, just read through your post, and I think you have wonderful ideas. I wanted to address this point here:

  • Spear:
    Could be adapted for main-hand and off-hand usage.
  • Harpoon gun:
    Doesn’t make a lot of sense at land, but some of the simplest existing skins, as well as future skins, could be adapted to depict crossbows instead.
  • Trident:
    With the spear being one-handed, the trident would remain relevant as a two-handed longspear of sorts.

So I've mentioned this idea before, but I think an absolutely great way to add weapon variety into the game with this new expac would be to:
  1. Add in 1-3 entirely new weapon types. Almost every new elite spec would be getting one of these
  2. Additionally, make underwater weapons amphibious and let one or both of them be available for core classes.

So with this, the expac would bring 2-3 new weapons for everyone.

Second point there could be accomplished through narrative quite easily imo. There could be something in the expac about "repurposing" underwater weapons as land weapons due to their effectiveness at taking down underwater creatures (that are on land/floating in the air.... because Elder Dragon magic).

Spear --> repurposed into a one-handed melee weapon, very similar to Paragon from GW1Trident --> repurposed into the two-handed polearm (2h spear). Similar to GS, maybe slightly lower dps, but more versatile (has some range on its attacks, variety of moveset, like blocks, parries, leaps, evades, a thrown attack, rapid-hitting attacks, wide-range melee aoe)Harpoon gun --> repurposed into either an explosive weapon, or a crossbow/crossbowgun.

For the land version of harpoon gun, so many different things could be done with this - it could be a 2h mid-range weapon that focuses on large AOEs and is a bit on the slower side, it could be a 1h ranged weapon that focuses more on CC and AOE than pistol, or it could be an off-hand only weapon that has a lot of utility, kind of like the Clutch Claw in Monster Hunter World. Sky's the limit, yo.

You replied to the oldest version, I've posted multiple updates across the thread, last one here:
:P.

I wouldn't bring underwater weapons into land anymore, only their skins. Underwater weapons are pretty bad anyway.

@Klowdy.3126 said:Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

Firebrand and?

I love the Idea of adding tomes to more classes.I think is pretty hard to they implement new weapons, there's a lot of things to do if so.
More balance(The current one is already a mess)
More skins(The hardest part, there are a lot of skins to make)
Which classes are going to get it?
Too much job for something not so required, I think.If they are going to put new weapons, it will probably be added as mechanics or skills (Conjures, kits, tomes ...)

They don't need to make skins for all the missing sets... they haven't done that for underwater weapons since many years ago.

@Klowdy.3126 said:Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

Firebrand and?

I love the Idea of adding tomes to more classes.I think is pretty hard to they implement new weapons, there's a lot of things to do if so.
More balance(The current one is already a mess)
More skins(The hardest part, there are a lot of skins to make)
Which classes are going to get it?
Too much job for something not so required, I think.If they are going to put new weapons, it will probably be added as mechanics or skills (Conjures, kits, tomes ...)

Tomes are like Attunements

More like engineer kits, really.

No, cause kit are a utility and Attunement are F abilities

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  • 2 months later...

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:The original idea feels somewhat outdated, and I have changed a few opinions since I posted it, in part thanks to everyone contributing. So I guess it's time for an update!

Here's my new take, I'm a bit less rigid with the animation department this time, and I'm going harder for the cool factor too. I still think this set is fairly viable, and includes more variety, with more potential for originality. Hope you like it!

New weapons

These are my 6 ideal weapons, for a total of 22.
  • Fists:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. They replace active glove skins when wielded.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Mostly ranged usage.
  • Bell:
    Off-hand. Percussion instrument, played to vibrate ambient magic. Connected to geomancy.
  • Vial:
    Off-hand. Container of liquid which can be drunk, spilled, or thrown. Includes bottles of wine, magic potions, steins of beer, barrels, and more.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more.
  • Relic:
    Two-handed. Magical artifact inspired by the old guardian tomes. Floats on the left hand, while you cast with the right hand. Includes books of magic, astrolabes, cauldrons, musical instruments, ashes, tablets, and more.

Each core profession would unlock two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist: Bell, Relic.
  • Mesmer: Vial, Relic.
  • Necromancer: Bell, Polearm.
  • Engineer: Fists, Vial.
  • Ranger: Spear, Bell.
  • Thief: Fists, Spear.
  • Guardian: Spear, Relic.
  • Revenant: Fists, Polearm.
  • Warrior: Vial, Polearm.

Underwater weapons

You might have noticed I didn't count the 3 underwater weapons when counting above. That's because I'm merging them with some of the ground weapons. They would remain separate equipment-wise, but use the same skin pool.
  • Harpoon (old spear) merges with polearm.
  • Speargun (old harpoon gun) merges with rifle.
  • Trident merges with staff.

You would still need to craft them separately, so for example, you wouldn't be able to use a trident as a staff. This merge only covers skins, effectively removing underwater weapons from the wardrobe.

Updates to old weapons

Other potential new weapons would be included inside the existing types. Few examples:
  • Axes now include chakrams, boomerangs, and other thrown blades.
  • Daggers now include fans.
  • Maces now include one-handed hammers.
  • Rifles now include crossbows.
  • Shortbows now include slingshots.

I feel like this model is much more solid than my previous idea, and also includes more exciting new options.

Bonus: New legendary weapons

Because, why not?
  • Fists:
    Steam-powered mecha-hands, the wrists rotate in combat like a drill.
  • Spear:
    GW1's
    , this time with more lightning.
  • Bell:
    Instead of a handheld bell, a floating familiar carries a Canthan jade tower bell by your side, and you pull the rope to play it. Includes musical instrument toy version.
  • Vial:
    A whole barrel of the legendary norn beer, Bear's Brown Ale. Your character occasionally makes drunk jokes. Frost effect, plus tiny pink elephants appear around you.
  • Polearm:
    Dual-bladed djinn elemental scythe, effects changing from fire to ice. Aura and footsteps change their effects as well, synchronized with the weapon.
  • Relic:
    Cauldron of Cataclysm, a handheld replica of the artifact behind the Searing of Ascalon.

Time for another update:

New weapons

These are my 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.
  • Satchel:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Thrown, inspired by the
    of the engineer.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Melee and thrown.
  • Battlegloves:
    Two-handed. They replace active glove skins when wielded. Melee and ranged.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more. Melee.

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist:
    Battlegloves.
  • Mesmer:
    Satchel.
  • Necromancer:
    Polearm.
  • Engineer:
    Satchel, Battlegloves.
  • Ranger:
    Spear.
  • Thief:
    Satchel, Battlegloves.
  • Guardian:
    Spear.
  • Revenant:
    Polearm.
  • Warrior:
    Spear, Polearm.

I feel like these four are more solid than the six I had before. Few design notes:
  • Off-hand weapons weren't engaging enough, and feel a bit like filler, so I just removed them. Both the Vial and the Bell could return as weapon kits, slot skills, bundles, or just animations.
  • Satchel gives us more thrown options, and allows grenade-like gameplay to expand outside engineer. I consider it an evolution of the Vial. It would replace the Grenade Kit on the engineer.
  • Fists were renamed to Battlegloves, and reclassified as two-handed. Figured out the weapon skills would feel better if they used both hands for everything. They would be usable for both melee combat and casting magical ranged attacks.
  • Relic is gone, since it felt a bit clunky. Still has potential as a weapon kit profession mechanic, with dedicated skins.
  • Spear and Polearm were already solid enough, so they stay the same.

Bonus: Elite specialization ideas

Few elite specialization ideas, using both new and repurposed weapon types:
  • Elementalist - Dervish:
    Polearm (scythe skin).
  • Mesmer - Dreamcharmer:
    Dagger (fan skin).
  • Necromancer - Apothecary:
    Satchel (plague bomb skin).
  • Ranger - Beastlord:
    Polearm (greataxe skin).
  • Thief - Bladewind:
    Axe (boomerang skin).
  • Guardian - Paragon:
    Polearm (two-handed spear skin).
  • Revenant - Hierophant:
    Battlegloves (
    ).
  • Warrior - Gladiator:
    Staff (trident skin).

Been a while since the last time, here's another take, combining the best of all previous ideas:

New weapons

These are my latest 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.
  • Battleglove:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. They replace active glove skins when wielded. Melee and ranged.
  • Spear:
    One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Melee and thrown.
  • Polearm:
    Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more. Melee.
  • Relic:
    Two-handed. Magical artifact inspired by
    . Floats on the left hand, while you cast with the right hand. Includes astrolabes, cauldrons, musical instruments, ashes, tablets, and more. Ranged.

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist: Battlegloves, Relic.
  • Mesmer: Relic.
  • Necromancer: Polearm.
  • Engineer: Battlegloves.
  • Ranger: Spear.
  • Thief: Battlegloves.
  • Guardian: Spear.
  • Revenant: Polearm, Relic.
  • Warrior: Spear, Polearm.

Few design notes:
  • Satchels don't convince me as "wielded weapons" anymore, and I feel like they would work far better as kits or thrown skills, as long as they're handled properly, like new elite specialization mechanics, an elixir rework, or just a new slot skill type altogether.
  • Battlegloves are back to one-handed. There might be situations where a single battleglove could combine well with other one-handed weapons, and the two-handed restriction wasn't mandatory anyway.
  • Relic is back, since I still feel like we need more magical weapons. However, this time it draws inspiration from
    . It's no longer inspired by guardian tomes, which would remain exclusive to the firebrand's elite specialization mechanic's theme.
  • Spear and Polearm still remain solid enough, so they stay the same once again.

Well, I think this is a pretty good final version, but who knows, new ideas might change everything in a few months once again =).

Let's go for another round:

New weapon types

These are my 4 ideal weapons, for a total of 20.

Few design notes:
  • Battlegloves have been renamed to Knuckles, and no longer replace glove skins by default.
  • Spear has been restricted to main-hand only. I know there's
    ingame who wield spears in both hands, but you never get to actually see them use the second hand.
  • No changes for Polearm and Relic.

Core professions update

Each core profession would unlock one or two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:
  • Elementalist:
    Relic.
  • Mesmer:
    Relic.
  • Necromancer:
    Polearm.
  • Engineer:
    Knuckles.
  • Ranger:
    Spear.
  • Thief:
    Knuckles.
  • Guardian:
    Spear, Relic.
  • Revenant:
    Knuckles, Polearm.
  • Warrior:
    Spear, Polearm.

Updates to wardrobe restrictions

Some of the new weapons already "exist" as skins for other weapon types. The easiest solution would be to duplicate them across the different types, but what if we took it further, and removed some of the type-based wardrobe restrictions?

For example, we could enable usage of trident or polearm skins on a staff, removing the need for duplicates and increasing overall skin value.

The lifted restrictions would be as follows:
  • Focus
    ⬅ Scepter, Knuckles.
  • Longbow
    ⬅ Shortbow.
  • Rifle
    ⬅ Speargun.
  • Shortbow
    ⬅ Longbow.
  • Scepter
    ⬅ Mace.
  • Spear
    ⬅ Harpoon, Trident.
  • Staff
    ⬅ Polearm, Spear, Harpoon, Trident.

Underwater weapons would be affected as well:
  • Harpoon
    ⬅ Polearm, Spear, Trident.
  • Speargun
    ⬅ Rifle.
  • Trident
    ⬅ Polearm, Spear, Staff, Harpoon.

This idea can be applied to armor skins too:
  • Back item
    ⬅ Shield (stowed).
  • Aquatic Headgear
    ⬅ Headgear.

Once these restrictions have been lifted, the existing conflictive skins can be reclassified easily with no need for duplicates. For example, existing
would be transformed into polearm skins, and be usable by both polearms and staves. Some foci skins such as the
or the
would be transformed into knuckles skins, and be usable by both knuckles and foci.

Another round:

New weapon types

These are my ideal weapons, for a total of 18.

Few design notes:

  • Longbow and Shortbow have been merged into a single weapon type, called just Bow. The Ranger uses both weapons, so his shortbow skills will be transformed into dagger skills, and his original dagger skills will be transformed into Knuckles skills.
  • Still not convinced by Relic too much, so it's gone once again.
  • No changes for Spear, Knuckles, and Polearm.

Core professions update

Each core profession would unlock some of the old and new weapon types for free, without any specialization requirements. These core unlocks would be as follows:

  • Elementalist: Greatsword, Polearm.
  • Mesmer: Pistol (main-hand), Warhorn.
  • Necromancer: Axe (off-hand), Polearm.
  • Engineer: Knuckles (main-hand and off-hand), Mace (main-hand and off-hand).
  • Ranger: Spear.
  • Thief: Spear, Knuckles (main-hand and off-hand).
  • Guardian: Spear.
  • Revenant: Axe (main-hand), Mace (off-hand), Knuckles (main-hand and off-hand).
  • Warrior: Polearm.

Further unlocks would become possible through new elite specializations and additional core profession updates.

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A lot of thought has gone in to this. Although very unlikely Anet would do something like this due to animation and artist costs, here are my 2cents.

I would prefer that each profession get another 1 base weapon and do updates on core weapons, skills, and traits that need it... instead of another specialization for the expansion. This would breath more life into the game for me, so I would take this trade off of Anets resources.

Also, I could see INSTEAD of giving different classes different types of all new weapons, I could see ANET giving EVERY PROFESSION A SPEAR AS A CORE LAND WEAPON and then customize it to be ranged, melee, defense/utility, support, or dps focused based on what the class needed. I think that this would actually work out well for resource use as well as an even playing field without anyone being left out.This would leave engineer's shield a bit out in the cold still, as they have no MH Power weapon to pair with shield, but it would at least give them another option.

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Mace for engy seems the most logical, as it can be used mh and oh. Engy needs another off hander. I say this because pistol is used for both mh and Oh. A focus or a torch would be most class appropriate. I don’t think knuckles is a good suggestion, since engy already is the most lacking class in amount of weapon types. It’s also far from being class appropriate.

2h - rifle and hammerMh - pistol and swordOh - pistol and shield

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@Gulesave.5073 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I really don't see the need for new weapon types in this game. I mean, even warrior, the class who can currently wield the most weapons in the game, still has 6 open weapon slots, allowing for 6 more elite specs before he runs out just with the current weapons (or 5 if he gets dual pistols in a single spec like he got dual daggers). Even at that point though, assuming GW3 isn't out yet, there's nothing preventing a new warrior elite from re-using a weapon a previous one used. Nothing stopping the new one from re-using torch for instance.

Plus, on the other hand, we already have plenty of open "slots" for weapons. Scepter could be adapted as a second hand weapon for an elite spec, torch/focus/warhorn could be adapted as mainhand weapons for some elite specs (and shield too as a stretch for an extremely defensive oriented spec). There's just no need for new weapon types, and no matter how they would be implemented it would have huge drawbacks ("wasted" dev time by creating skins for them for every existing set and recipes for making them, despite it not being new content. Or having an extremely limited set of skins for these new weapons, which you can bet real money on would definitely kitten off a lot of players who play fashion wars).

I love writing up ideas for using offhand weapons in the main hand, or vice versa. Guardian with MH shield to toss in mid-range. Thief with MH torch for smokey goodness. Dual scepter warrior who uses them as beating sticks? Go for it!

Limitation fuels creativity. If you really want other weapon types, they can always be kits or conjures. Reaper gets a scythe in shroud form already. Somebody could just as easily call up a spear, crossbow, or whatever else.

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Conncept.7638 said:I cannot believe you don't have tomes on the first priority list.
  • Like the underwater weapons, they are, or were, already in game.
  • As a magic weapon, it would be more particle effect driven, requiring way less animation work than any martial weapon.
  • There are no caster weapons left. The game only launched with three, already available to every caster profession. There is so much design space left for more traditional spellcasting, but no magic weapons to place traditional spellcasting skills on.
  • And finally, we already have a profession that should have had it, the axe makes absolutely no sense for the firebrand and was clearly a tacked on compromise on the firebrands aesthetic and theme. We have a sophisticated mystical librarian and lorekeeper, wielding the most primitive, brutish, barbaric weapon in the game.

Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

"I'm using a tome in order to use my tomes more effectively...in my tome build...with tomes"

No.

Well then the OP is moot, if we're going to accept nonsensical weapons then there isn't any point in exploring new weapon types.

Or... and here me out here, you could stop making vain attempts to shut down peoples suggestions in ways completely illogical to a suggestion thread to make yourself feel important and empowered.

We're already suggesting major changes to the game here, as that was the purpose of the thread. And you're making assumptions about those suggestions says nothing about the suggestions themselves, but about you and your conduct. What I was suggesting was that "tomes" not be the firebrand class mechanic in favor of it being added as a real weapon, as anyone could have figured out upon reading my suggestion. But you didn't want to come to that conclusion, it didn't give you the opportunity to put yourself up by shutting others down.

And that change would more easily be made than adding any weapon to the game, because, as the entire guardian forum has pointed out for two months on end, tomes are tomes practically in name only these days, they are included in a brief casting animation and then never seen, you would literally have to change a single animation and sub out a single word in the FBs skillset. Oh how terrible, we changed a word, the firebrand is ruined.

I dunno orb fits elementalist perfectly and skull for necromancer skull of some powerful dead guy or something no? i mean eles bieng casters would love some form of magic orb to channel elements no?

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  • 1 month later...

@"Yung Reezy.8479" said:First I must commend you on really sticking with your ideas and coming back to them, it’s been cool to see them develop. And also warriors should definitely get knuckles as a core profession update

Thanks! Check my Ideas for 9 new Canthan elite specializations as well if you like my work :smile:.

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:I dunno orb fits elementalist perfectly and skull for necromancer skull of some powerful dead guy or something no? i mean eles bieng casters would love some form of magic orb to channel elements no?

These actually sound like they'd fit as Focus skins, rather than being their own weapon categories.

Foci have always been kind of a mess, it's kinda sad they never got properly established as "real" magical artifacts (such as orbs, books, etc) and instead we got a series of weird gizmos that don't look either useful or cool in any way whatsoever. I mean, just look at the gallery.

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@"Lonami.2987" said:Foci have always been kind of a mess, it's kinda sad they never got properly established as "real" magical artifacts (such as orbs, books, etc) and instead we got a series of weird gizmos that don't look either useful or cool in any way whatsoever.Considering the range of things their equivalents in GW1 and WoW are, I don't mind that.

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@Lonami.2987 said:

@"Yung Reezy.8479" said:First I must commend you on really sticking with your ideas and coming back to them, it’s been cool to see them develop. And also warriors should definitely get knuckles as a core profession update

Thanks! Check my
as well if you like my work :smile:.

@"Axl.8924" said:I dunno orb fits elementalist perfectly and skull for necromancer skull of some powerful dead guy or something no? i mean eles bieng casters would love some form of magic orb to channel elements no?

These actually sound like they'd fit as Focus skins, rather than being their own weapon categories.

Foci have always been kind of a mess, it's kinda sad they never got properly established as "real" magical artifacts (such as orbs, books, etc) and instead we got a series of weird gizmos that don't look either useful or cool in any way whatsoever.

Its because they need to perhaps buff it to make it useful. At times they nerf things into oblivion.

Maybe its better we don't get more weapons, because look at wow being a mess from having a bunch of classes and elite specs and trying to balance it for pvp pve and raids.

I've seen some on forum complain and say threaten they leaving, and this game has huge amounts of issues balancing too, so perhaps its better to have a limited amount and really balance them properly to be good in certain situations.

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  • 1 month later...

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:Foci have always been kind of a mess, it's kinda sad they never got properly established as "real" magical artifacts (such as orbs, books, etc) and instead we got a series of weird gizmos that don't look either useful or cool in any way whatsoever.Considering the range of things their equivalents in GW1 and WoW are, I don't mind that.

Still, imagine if foci had been mostly books and orbs from day one. Most of the foci are just ugly pieces of random objects cobbled together.

Big wasted potential there imo.

@Axl.8924 said:

@"Yung Reezy.8479" said:First I must commend you on really sticking with your ideas and coming back to them, it’s been cool to see them develop. And also warriors should definitely get knuckles as a core profession update

Thanks! Check my
as well if you like my work :smile:.

@Axl.8924 said:I dunno orb fits elementalist perfectly and skull for necromancer skull of some powerful dead guy or something no? i mean eles bieng casters would love some form of magic orb to channel elements no?

These actually sound like they'd fit as Focus skins, rather than being their own weapon categories.

Foci have always been kind of a mess, it's kinda sad they never got properly established as "real" magical artifacts (such as orbs, books, etc) and instead we got a series of weird gizmos that don't look either useful or cool in any way whatsoever.

Its because they need to perhaps buff it to make it useful. At times they nerf things into oblivion.

Maybe its better we don't get more weapons, because look at wow being a mess from having a bunch of classes and elite specs and trying to balance it for pvp pve and raids.

I've seen some on forum complain and say threaten they leaving, and this game has huge amounts of issues balancing too, so perhaps its better to have a limited amount and really balance them properly to be good in certain situations.

Weapon types have no gameplay impact, they're 100% cosmetic, since skills are independent from the item itself.

Giving a revenant a polearm would be no different than giving him a greatsword, gameplay-wise.

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@Lonami.2987 said:Still, imagine if foci had been mostly books and orbs from day one.That'd be far more boring than what we have now.I'd very much prefer a very small or invisible focus over any kind of book (except for the Binding of Ipos, which is more claw than book) or Orb.

Most of the foci are just ugly pieces of random objects cobbled together.This is very much subjective.Just because you think something is visually unappealing, doesn't mean everyone shares that view.

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