Uhh..i'm not trying to be rude but does Anet have ANY idea what they are doing with class "balance"?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The games in a seriously bad state, the other night had the same 2 players not duo q'rs in my team 3 matches in a row, that's a very sad sign of the state of the games population lol.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I honestly think that the feb patch and a lot of players take on it was a good example of players thinking they know what they want or what's best but do not, the games never been in a worst place than post feb patch and the plummeting population is a testament to that. Condi and sustainability being to high and in some cases damage to low is killing this games pvp. Burst classes need to be actually bursty, mid line classes midline and sustain classes not bursting as they are, these devs royally messed this games pvp up, its a complete disaster balance wise.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The games in a seriously bad state, the other night had the same 2 players not duo q'rs in my team 3 matches in a row, that's a very sad sign of the state of the games population lol.

That's even happening in unranked for me, which is a bit concerning.

Adding my 2 cents to OP's sentiment: I don't think thief is nearly as bad as you make it sound, but guardian is pretty strong atm. You said it yourself - you like fights. No surprise that guardian is more your speed, whereas to excel in spvp on thief it's more about knowing how maps work and how to best disrupt the enemy team (whether that be rapid +1s or decaps).

But yeah, the current 'balance' doesn't feel good at all.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Thiefs not bad but it's not good either. The balance players that dislike thief want is not only bad for thief but also the game. Thief should have thee highest quick burst in the game given its archetype and design. Rogue and rogue likes are designed to be highly mobile and strike quick and hard using tactic that that stay true to the archetype whether it pisses players off or not, and if a rogue type is pissing players off it's doing its job. They should be squishy yet slippery and punish players hard if they get their burst off but in today's current game state it can take to long to even +1 for a teammate due to the insane sustain classes have either through healing or through defensive skills. Yes a thief should be able to significantly burst a tank if it gets its burst of, not one shot it of course but its burst should be significant enough to make quick work of ANY class in a +1, that's the reward for a rogue choosing their fights wisely and punishment for opponent being in a +1 but not in gw2 right now as a great holo,ranger,guard,rev and scourge can stall the fight far longer in a +1 than should be possible. On top classes that can survive in fights for longer periods are bursting as mush as the burst classes. There's literally no identity throughout the classes and all the roles are completely messed up and half backed into all classes but in away that is completely out of balance between each other. Too many classes are great at to many things and others gbage at too many things while being great at a few and some class are great at things ud think would be the weakness of such a archetype or design of a class. Honestly the pvp is completely lost in gw2 unless the devs do a complete overhaul and actually put real work into it, not some lazy blanket nerf to every class with no regards to how it actually effects each class individually. The we can only change numbers on balance is so laughable and unprofessional from a dev omg, sure design team will get to fixing things properly......6 yrs down the rd 3 traits may get designed throughout those yrs. I'm surprised ncsoft is ok with how things have been.

[Supreme.3164]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Thiefs not bad but it's not good either. The balance players that dislike thief want is not only bad for thief but also the game. Thief should have thee highest quick burst in the game given its archetype and design. Rogue and rogue likes are designed to be highly mobile and strike quick and hard using tactic that that stay true to the archetype whether it pisses players off or not, and if a rogue type is pissing players off it's doing its job. They should be squishy yet slippery and punish players hard if they get their burst off but in today's current game state it can take to long to even +1 for a teammate due to the insane sustain classes have either through healing or through defensive skills. Yes a thief should be able to significantly burst a tank if it gets its burst of, not one shot it of course but its burst should be significant enough to make quick work of ANY class in a +1, that's the reward for a rogue choosing their fights wisely and punishment for opponent being in a +1 but not in gw2 right now as a great holo,ranger,guard,rev and scourge can stall the fight far longer in a +1 than should be possible. On top classes that can survive in fights for longer periods are bursting as mush as the burst classes. There's literally no identity throughout the classes and all the roles are completely messed up and half backed into all classes but in away that is completely out of balance between each other. Too many classes are great at to many things and others gbage at too many things while being great at a few and some class are great at things ud think would be the weakness of such a archetype or design of a class. Honestly the pvp is completely lost in gw2 unless the devs do a complete overhaul and actually put real work into it, not some lazy blanket nerf to every class with no regards to how it actually effects each class individually. The we can only change numbers on balance is so laughable and unprofessional from a dev omg, sure design team will get to fixing things properly......6 yrs down the rd 3 traits may get designed throughout those yrs. I'm surprised ncsoft is ok with how things have been.

If you say that thieves should be "squishy" then you're asking for far less access to stealth.....I can't agree on an ideology that a class should "piss off others" that's not a legitimate balance request, if that would be the case then we should reintroduce all the damage taken away from other burst specs like Fa ele, sic'em ranger, core guardian hammer, shiro s/s , oneshot mesmer and so on and so on.

For huge reward there should be huge risk and the latter should not occur only when "you do the mistake", that's a low risk instance...hardly a high risk one; right now it's possible to "punish" thieves only if you have access to things like : reveal - huge instant burst -teleports and high reflex rate...that's a lot to ask.

It's not really possible to talk about balance with players on the forum without hitting that Bias wall

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Thiefs not bad but it's not good either. The balance players that dislike thief want is not only bad for thief but also the game. Thief should have thee highest quick burst in the game given its archetype and design. Rogue and rogue likes are designed to be highly mobile and strike quick and hard using tactic that that stay true to the archetype whether it pisses players off or not, and if a rogue type is pissing players off it's doing its job. They should be squishy yet slippery and punish players hard if they get their burst off but in today's current game state it can take to long to even +1 for a teammate due to the insane sustain classes have either through healing or through defensive skills. Yes a thief should be able to significantly burst a tank if it gets its burst of, not one shot it of course but its burst should be significant enough to make quick work of ANY class in a +1, that's the reward for a rogue choosing their fights wisely and punishment for opponent being in a +1 but not in gw2 right now as a great holo,ranger,guard,rev and scourge can stall the fight far longer in a +1 than should be possible. On top classes that can survive in fights for longer periods are bursting as mush as the burst classes. There's literally no identity throughout the classes and all the roles are completely messed up and half backed into all classes but in away that is completely out of balance between each other. Too many classes are great at to many things and others gbage at too many things while being great at a few and some class are great at things ud think would be the weakness of such a archetype or design of a class. Honestly the pvp is completely lost in gw2 unless the devs do a complete overhaul and actually put real work into it, not some lazy blanket nerf to every class with no regards to how it actually effects each class individually. The we can only change numbers on balance is so laughable and unprofessional from a dev omg, sure design team will get to fixing things properly......6 yrs down the rd 3 traits may get designed throughout those yrs. I'm surprised ncsoft is ok with how things have been.

If you say that thieves should be "squishy" then you're asking for far less access to stealth.....I can't agree on an ideology that a class should "kitten off others" that's not a legitimate balance request, if that would be the case then we should reintroduce all the damage taken away from other burst specs like Fa ele, sic'em ranger, core guardian hammer, shiro s/s , oneshot mesmer and so on and so on.

For huge reward there should be

huge risk

and the latter should not occur only when "you do the mistake", that's a low risk instance...hardly a high risk one; right now it's possible to "punish" thieves only if you have access to things like : reveal - huge instant burst -teleports and high reflex rate...that's a lot to ask.

It's not really possible to talk about balance with players on the forum without hitting

that Bias wall

Unfortunately the risk vs reward of almost all classes is a joke. Think about how much damage most high sustain classes can do, classes that can stay in a fight, stall 2 players for a minute or so can match ur out burst classes that have to use disengagement if a fight last more than 10 secs. Thief needs some defensive abilities if their burst doesn't connect, way it is now even if it does the burst isn't very threatening to most classes except other glass classes or builds. People complain about thieves running away using stealth and tele's but why are they running away? I do agree access to stealth is to high but I also believe the reward for getting thief's burst off is too low. Capping stealth at 6 sec that's non stackable that can be replenished would probably help balance stealth out. Thief given its hp and armor still needs effective disengagement tools so it's not a free bag after its burst attempts. Of every mmo I've played, bdo,eso,wow,archeage, rift etc gw2 has thee weakest bursting rogue like, and yeah all those other rogues have great mobility and stealth etc on top of their squishy nature.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Thiefs not bad but it's not good either. The balance players that dislike thief want is not only bad for thief but also the game. Thief should have thee highest quick burst in the game given its archetype and design. Rogue and rogue likes are designed to be highly mobile and strike quick and hard using tactic that that stay true to the archetype whether it pisses players off or not, and if a rogue type is pissing players off it's doing its job. They should be squishy yet slippery and punish players hard if they get their burst off but in today's current game state it can take to long to even +1 for a teammate due to the insane sustain classes have either through healing or through defensive skills. Yes a thief should be able to significantly burst a tank if it gets its burst of, not one shot it of course but its burst should be significant enough to make quick work of ANY class in a +1, that's the reward for a rogue choosing their fights wisely and punishment for opponent being in a +1 but not in gw2 right now as a great holo,ranger,guard,rev and scourge can stall the fight far longer in a +1 than should be possible. On top classes that can survive in fights for longer periods are bursting as mush as the burst classes. There's literally no identity throughout the classes and all the roles are completely messed up and half backed into all classes but in away that is completely out of balance between each other. Too many classes are great at to many things and others gbage at too many things while being great at a few and some class are great at things ud think would be the weakness of such a archetype or design of a class. Honestly the pvp is completely lost in gw2 unless the devs do a complete overhaul and actually put real work into it, not some lazy blanket nerf to every class with no regards to how it actually effects each class individually. The we can only change numbers on balance is so laughable and unprofessional from a dev omg, sure design team will get to fixing things properly......6 yrs down the rd 3 traits may get designed throughout those yrs. I'm surprised ncsoft is ok with how things have been.

If you say that thieves should be "squishy" then you're asking for far less access to stealth.....I can't agree on an ideology that a class should "kitten off others" that's not a legitimate balance request, if that would be the case then we should reintroduce all the damage taken away from other burst specs like Fa ele, sic'em ranger, core guardian hammer, shiro s/s , oneshot mesmer and so on and so on.

No? Stealth is useless for defense. If anything its asking for shortbow 5 to be removed, but thats the crux anyway, isnt it?

For huge reward there should be huge risk and the latter should not occur only when "you do the mistake", that's a low risk instance...hardly a high risk one; right now it's possible to "punish" thieves only if you have access to things like : reveal - huge instant burst -teleports and high reflex rate...that's a lot to ask.

If a thief is smart and doesnt stealth in-combat, none of those help you punish him. If he is stupid and does stealth in combat, you need none of those (reveals are even outright a trap).