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HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.


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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

Those were better days.

Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectlya good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottompretty much like a REAL society

A good game is one where you cant lose or have to learn how it works and can reward idling so it can fit all (sarcasm) sure but in society some things require you to learn things and get better at things.

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

Those were better days.

Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectlya good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottompretty much like a REAL society

A good game is one where you cant lose or have to learn

when i came to this game, i couldnt dodge AT ALL. i suck at platforming , and i really HATE it.but i still completed vezirs tower. no portal. took my almost a day of cursing, but i DID it.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

Those were better days.

Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectlya good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottompretty much like a REAL society

A good game is one where you cant lose or have to learn

when i came to this game, i couldnt dodge AT ALL. i suck at platforming , and i really HATE it.but i still completed vezirs tower. no portal. took my almost a day of cursing, but i DID it.

The it has to be nerfed dont it . Yes wanna know how i felt during first run of ps( why do we need an army as i can kill armies on my own is zhaitan even a threat) you also forget this is a mmo its meant to be playing with others on that front core failed for you could solo almost everything. So group content was bad

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Laila Lightness.8742" said:Also most casual players dont want hardcore content tp exist or atleast not have rewards they cant getPlease cite your source for "most casual players". I'm not convinced that this is true. Sounds a lot like hyperbole to me.

He's confusing casuals with bad players.

Casuals are aware of what they are doing and know that playing casually shouldn't really need to achieve the same thing as high level raids or top leaderboard PvP content. Casuals are playing the game at their own pace for fun.

Bad players on the other hand, lack this self awareness and thus demand that all content be brought down to their level. "waaah prestiguous PvP titles shouldn't exist because they make me feel insecure, waaaaaaah I shouldn't have to learn how to play my class to get into top tier raids, waaaaaaah I got oneshot in WvW so unfair, waaaaaah!"

Learning to tell the difference quickly shows you which players to ignore.

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

Iknow ppl who thought core was to hard should we nerf it down

can just turn gw2 into an interactive visual novel, that way everyone can play -- no one loses /sarcasm

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

Those were better days.

Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectlya good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottompretty much like a REAL society

Maybe. But there are also people living in a shed outside the pyramid that don't spend any money and proclaim themselves part of this illustrious group of foundational players. I hope the devs don't listen to those players as they are not indicative of anything.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

Average players love HoT and find core laughably easy. We want more HoT.

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10 pages of this? Seriously?There are a small (vocal) group of people who want the game to be hard. Grrrr!!There are a small (vocal) group of people who want the game to be fun and easy. Waaaaah!

Then there is the rest - how are quite happy with both fun and hard - but the problem right now in the game that the jump from fun to hard - ie end of core Tyria into Heart of Thorns is a big one. This is important because that is how NEW PLAYERS are going to see the game - because that's what you get when you buy the expansions now.No one cares how it used to be - it doesn't matter. New player experience is going to suddenly matter a lot with GW2 coming on Steam soon.

GW2 doesn't have a gear grind - but it does demand you get better at playing.Going from the end of the core story to HoT is a big jump - in a number of ways - and a lot of them can be frustrating.
For a better player experience, GW2 needs to better prepare people for HoT - because right now it doesn't at all. You can quite easily get all the way through the core story without really understanding breakbars and how to dodge - I certainly did when I started again back in June.Toss in a horribly confusing map (with the lack of height indication on markers currently making it even worse) and the wave of angry rage-quit posts a few months after the Steam release is going to be epic. Is that really what we want for the game?

You shouldn't have to spend hours watching youtube videos and reading wikis in order to play a game. If you do, then that's a failure on the part of the designers.That's what need to be addressed. There is no need (and most people aren't calling for) nerfs or to make things even more punishing.

Enough with the hyperbolic pontificating.

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@"Rokeb.3815" said:Then there is the rest - how are quite happy with both fun and hard - but the problem right now in the game that the jump from fun to hard - ie end of core Tyria into Heart of Thorns is a big one. This is important because that is how NEW PLAYERS are going to see the game - because that's what you get when you buy the expansions now.

There is always the solution to make Season 2 entirely free for anyone that buys the expansion. That way the "Game is too difficult" argument will be probably redirected to "S2" instead of HOT but at least that gap is more manageable. The problem is, as with more situations like this, the forum vocal posters that want new players to spend extra money (or even gold), not to enjoy the game more, but to unlock content that exists between core and what they bought. "Look to enjoy what you bought, you must first pay some extra money, or grind for gold" is what Anet is telling new players.

You shouldn't have to spend hours watching youtube videos and reading wikis in order to play a game. If you do, then that's a failure on the part of the designers.

Of course, the game needs better tutorials. But once again our fellow vocal posters will tell you that the game is by design like so you feel the "exploration" and "discovery". Meaning the exploration/discovery of youtube channels and wiki pages that have the information you need of course.

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I just attempted night of Fire in pof on an ele.. haha, yeah no.. 10+ (Some were insta kills) deaths become rinse repeat really not fun after you die so many times a customer gets frustrated angry and wants the mission just to end so they can leave.. and in my case stop using said ele..I even spent the whole day copying metabattle builds, building armor and weapons needed in hope that my ele would be useful..Nope its done.Ele can die in a fire as far as i'm concerned.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

Average players love HoT and find core laughably easy. We want more HoT.

No they really don't, i talk to guildies daily and frustration is big in hot and lesser so pof.. Its a large aspect of why so many leave or take breaks.. Enjoyable content you can go through is fun, content that continually bashes you until you quit isn't (thats actually called bully mechanics).

Leave that to pvp or raids.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

Those were better days.

Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectlya good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottompretty much like a REAL society

Maybe. But there are also people living in a shed outside the pyramid that don't spend any money and proclaim themselves part of this illustrious group of foundational players. I hope the devs don't listen to those players as they are not indicative of anything.

yep, just ignore the customers, that should work out just fine. you prolly dont have to fire anyone, or change plans later..and since this is the only mmo on the market, people just have to suck it up and GIT GUD

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

Those were better days.

Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectlya good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottompretty much like a REAL society

A good game is one where you cant lose or have to learn

when i came to this game, i couldnt dodge AT ALL. i suck at platforming , and i really HATE it.but i still completed vezirs tower. no portal. took my almost a day of cursing, but i DID it.

The it has to be nerfed dont it . Yes wanna know how i felt during first run of ps( why do we need an army as i can kill armies on my own is zhaitan even a threat) you also forget this is a mmo its meant to be playing with others on that front core failed for you could solo almost everything. So group content was bad

yes, i think they should allow mounts, or at least gliders in JPs. you have to play a significant part of the SECOND expansion for them to be useful.besides that, it is pretty much breaking the rule of RPGs to disable skills, that the player has WORKED to gainSPECIALLY when it is needed the most. it is basically a big F U to the player.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

That's not really proof of anything. Try again with some actual data

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

That's not really proof of anything. Try again with some actual data

yep, REAL LIFE doesnt prove anything, better wait for a SECRET PAPER from the BUSINESS itself....lolPS note that they are still sporting the 12 mio from F2P launch too. this isnt right...

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

That's not really proof of anything. Try again with some actual data

yep, REAL LIFE doesnt prove anything, better wait for a SECRET PAPER from the BUSINESS itself....lol

Again, what you said doesn't prove anything. Also, if you go by your logic of "endgame" zones you can easily see in GW2 that the "endgame" zones, expansions and living world have way more players playing there than the low level core zones. Even when the game was new, Orr was populated very well, while the rest of the game wasn't as much, so your logic really fails. But that doesn't really prove anything about the content the players "like", it only proves that players go where the rewards are, as you said "super easy mission with a good reward", remove the reward (to see how many enjoy the content) and you will see what happens.

When Auric Basin Multiloot was nerfed, we went from 24 map instances at the same time, to barely 1. When Istan was nerfed, it became more of a wasteland. So it's not that players enjoy playing that content more than other content, but that they go to the easy rewards, that doesn't prove that the game sold millions to "Casuals", only that the majority of the game's population likes pressing 1 and F on their keyboard and get massive rewards while watching netflix on their second monitor. That's not healthy for the game and Anet knows that which is why they "nerf" these exceptionally good reward/effort areas. (To add new ones)

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

That's not really proof of anything. Try again with some actual data

yep, REAL LIFE doesnt prove anything, better wait for a SECRET PAPER from the BUSINESS itself....lol

Again, what you said doesn't prove anything. Also, if you go by your logic of "endgame" zones you can easily see in GW2 that the "endgame" zones, expansions and living world have way more players playing there than the low level core zones. Even when the game was new, Orr was populated very well, while the rest of the game wasn't as much, so your logic really fails. But that doesn't really prove anything about the content the players "like", it only proves that players go where the rewards are, as you said "super easy mission with a good reward", remove the reward (to see how many enjoy the content) and you will see what happens.

When Auric Basin Multiloot was nerfed, we went from 24 map instances at the same time, to barely 1. When Istan was nerfed, it became more of a wasteland. So it's not that players enjoy playing that content more than other content, but that they go to the easy rewards, that doesn't prove that the game sold millions to "Casuals", only that the majority of the game's population likes pressing 1 and F on their keyboard and get massive rewards while watching netflix on their second monitor. That's not healthy for the game and Anet knows that which is why they "nerf" these exceptionally good reward/effort areas. (To add new ones)

no big surprise here, the hardcore content locusts can devour a full mmo in a few days, so of course orr will be cramped in the first days.and after a few days they will flood the forums with demands, and then most of them will dump it again.the devs will prolly try to react on those demands, since this is the only feedback they have.and then the devs can try pleasing the audience, that has(mostly) already left themi have seen it happen too many times now

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I helped someone do the Mordremoth story mission about a month ago. He tried and failed solo once or twice, asked for help in guild chat, so I jumped in to coach him through it a bit and provided a bunch of extra damage. With my help, he was CCing Garm, doing the Canach shield thing, and managing Mordremoth's spawns pretty well. We were a team, we were kicking butt, he (accurately!) felt like he was mastering content that had previously given him a lot of trouble, and I felt like I was putting my experience to good use.

From a casual-gaming perspective, it was a really positive experience.

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HoT is hard. I mean, it is. It's not a walk in the park. However I just did it everything on my own, totally solo with my engineer but I also learn to play with the game mechanics aswell. I learned about interrupting some enemy attacks, counter the rest, avoid areas, etc. I mean, I've played Dark Souls I and III, and I've was recently playing Remnant: From the Ashes (very souls like with guns, basically) in max difficulty before jumping over GW2. And the HoT part take me by surprise, but after some wipes, some yelling and a new keyboard and screen I finally became a holoartisan and learned how to play, and I've taken down solo Mordremoth itself. Learned the masteries, etc.Being hard may shock, but it's the way to learn the mechanics of the game and prepare you for the endgame, at least a bit. It makes you ask other people, group with them and learn, watch tutorials and guides, search for builds and learn and master your own set of skills, know what is good for where and against who.The problem with Hot is, sometimes is too annoying. And annoyance it's not always the same as hard. That's a problem too obvious on souls games, many people use "hard" when it's not hard per se, it's just annoying. Dark Souls III Guardian of the Abyss, for instance, wasn't hard, rather than annoying. Too much health, too many hits in unpredictable combos, and 2 fases that resets every time you die. That's annoting because you just have to repeat the simple mechanics of "evade-attack-evade" to many times and without mistake. It's plays with your pacience rather than with your skill. It becomes tiresome real quick. With Hot Is more or less the same. Too may layers, too many roots that makes you fall, too many "instakill" enemies that makes you go down your mount (like those mini killer dinos, what the hell they eat? They are harder than Mordremoth) etc, and two maps without waypoints. One because simply there's no waypoints at all and the other because they are always in conflict. That makes the expansion tiresome to play. And that's not good at all, for anyone. So hard is good, but annoying is not.

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@"battledrone.8315" said:no big surprise here, the hardcore content locusts can devour a full mmo in a few days, so of course orr will be cramped in the first days.and after a few days they will flood the forums with demands, and then most of them will dump it again.the devs will prolly try to react on those demands, since this is the only feedback they have.and then the devs can try pleasing the audience, that has(mostly) already left themi have seen it happen too many times now

You mean the "Casuals" go only where the rewards are and ignore the rest of the game. According to your "observations" of where the population is of course. You said that because the easy content with the good rewards attracts lots of players, it means "casuals" are playing this game. Now you are saying that only the content locusts are playing there? But that's where, you said, the majority plays. You are contradicting yourself constantly, moving the goal posts, talking about irrelevant subjects instead of responding to the arguments presented. Are your arguments so weak that you feel the need to change the subject all the time?

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@"battledrone.8315" said:PS note that they are still sporting the 12 mio from F2P launch too. this isnt right...

Your information is incorrect. The game announced 7 million accounts when it went F2P and 11 million accounts in 2017, 2 years -after- the F2P announcement.

Let's take a look at sales:https://www.polygon.com/2013/1/15/3878496/guild-wars-2-has-sold-three-million-copies-since-launchGuild Wars 2 sold 3 million copies in 2012, that's half of Q3 and the entire Q4 of 2012, obviously hype played an important role, that's 4 months for 3 million copies

https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/21/guild-wars-2-sales-figures-revealedGuild Wars 2 sold 5 million copies up to August 2015. This means from January 2013 up to August 2015 the game sold 2 million copies. 31 months (!!) to sell 2 million copies

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-journey-is-just-beginning/Guild Wars 2 reached 7 million accounts in October 2015This means 2 million extra accounts were created in just 2 months when the game went free to play! In just 2 months game got as many accounts as it did in the previous 31 months. Do note that this was announced the same day Heart of Thorns launched, so it doesn't include HOT sales (maybe pre-orders?)

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-path-to-the-desert-in-numbers/Guild Wars 2 reached 11 million accounts in September 2017This means the game got 4 million new accounts in 23 months (almost 2 years), still a much better performance than during Season 1, but this is accounts, not sales.

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