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The Zoo Meta needs to end and never return.


Ovark.2514

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You keep balancing and you will end up with single skills doing 1 dmg on hit. I prefer having fun builds. The minion necro is a breath of fresh air to all the aoe nonsense we have.

Balance should not come in the way of defining classes. A necromancer with minions is class defining. Nerfing this type of gameplay would destroy its identity.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Can someone enlighten me? Is scourge minion master now dominating US or what?I'm not sure how minion scourge plays out well, since the most effective tactics available for Reaper or Core necro builds work great against it and even counter it by getting Spectral armor, Spectral grasp or both it basically gives them permanent full shroud plus even if you don't get them you have multiple AI to hit to gain shroud.

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Can someone enlighten me? Is scourge minion master now dominating US or what?I'm not sure how minion scourge plays out well, since the most effective tactics available for Reaper or Core necro builds work great against it and even counter it by getting Spectral armor, Spectral grasp or both it basically gives them permanent full shroud plus even if you don't get them you have multiple AI to hit to gain shroud.

Isn't it the new vallun scourge build on YouTube? Idk, I don't play Necro. But I've heard and seen of this build

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@Stallic.2397 said:Isn't it the new vallun scourge build on YouTube? Idk, I don't play Necro. But I've heard and seen of this buildThx that information helped. I found it. Mender amulet, melandru rune, BM+DM, dagger+warhorn, axe+focus and a skillbar full of minions.

A troll build like bunker core necro before the signets have been nerfed. The weaknesses are the same: stunlock and burst. Should even be easier to deal with as barrier is easier to kite than core shroud.

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@"Tazer.2157" said:Balance should not come in the way of defining classes. A necromancer with minions is class defining. Nerfing this type of gameplay would destroy its identity.

Can we vote to have you on the balance team? This is how it should be, for everything.

Instead of "nerf this, nerf that. Remove this, remove that" they should allow the playstyle to continue existing while buffing everything else to be on par and equally fun to play.Save the nerfs for the most gamebreaking and extreme examples.

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@"Tazer.2157" said:

Balance should not come in the way of defining classes. A necromancer with minions is class defining. Nerfing this type of gameplay would destroy its identity.Wow. If this is what people think necro's 'defining feature' is then something is more wrong than I thought. Imagine if every necro ran max minions all the time in PvP. The lag would be insane, the visual noise would be insane, getting killed by a mindless minion feels awful especially considering how passive the gameplay is. People who would straight-up stop playing. I find that a good rule of thumb when thinking about what is and isn't good design is: "How fun would the game be if everyone of class ALWAYS played build." you quickly find that adds should really be avoided at all costs.

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@Ovark.2514 said:

@"Tazer.2157" said:

Balance should not come in the way of defining classes. A necromancer with minions is class defining. Nerfing this type of gameplay would destroy its identity.Wow. If this is what people think necro's 'defining feature' is then something is more wrong than I thought. Imagine if every necro ran max minions all the time in PvP. The lag would be insane, the visual noise would be insane, getting killed by a mindless minion feels awful especially considering how passive the gameplay is. People who would straight-up stop playing. I find that a good rule of thumb when thinking about what is and isn't good design is: "How fun would the game be if everyone of
class ALWAYS played
build." you quickly find that adds should really be avoided at all costs.

Except that the meta would then shift accordingly. If more necros went minion builds, the other classes would have to adjust their builds. We might see power shiro taken with its single target blink and dmg. I think that this is what is interesting. Watching people play different builds and then having to adjust your build accordingly. The lag and visual noise you talk about can be fixed. What cannot be fixed is if the minions were made useless. In which case you have deleted a playstyle of a class.

Going by your rule of thumb, if you nerf one playstyle, won't the other playstyle be more dominant and wouldn't more people play a single type of build? Right now every necromancer is not a minion necromancer and I think that is why people find them tough to counter since the build you normally play with doesn't counter the minionmancer. Getting killed by a minion feels just as bad as getting killed by condi stacks or aoe.

If you want "active gameplay", then conditions should be deleted, damage should be done only on hit (power), and there should be no AOE/pets/clones/turrets/invisiblity. Every class should then have the same armor type. The game would then become something else.

PvP should be looked at as a 5v5 game and not a 1v1 game. Classes are supposed to compliment each other. RIght now, PvP in GW2 does very little to promote this. There is no pick and ban system like Dota 2 has, and people aren't encouraged to play other classes which makes them favor one type of class which results in nerf this, buff that threads. I think the off season needs to have achievements where people are made to play different classes with builds already defined for them. This would be a good starting step and not overwhelm players when picking a new class. Also a pick and ban system before a match begins would greatly enhance communication between players and will improve the build diversity in game.

Dota 2 does this really well. For new players, the amount of heroes they get to play with is limited and players are made to choose from a limited roster of heroes. GW2 can do something similar off-season where players are presented with 10-15 classes (each with a predefined build) and are made to pick/ban between them. That would be seriously fun and I bet people would experiment with different classes more often.

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@Tazer.2157 said:

Balance should not come in the way of defining classes. A necromancer with minions is class defining. Nerfing this type of gameplay would destroy its identity.Wow. If this is what people think necro's 'defining feature' is then something is more wrong than I thought. Imagine if every necro ran max minions all the time in PvP. The lag would be insane, the visual noise would be insane, getting killed by a mindless minion feels awful especially considering how passive the gameplay is. People who would straight-up stop playing. I find that a good rule of thumb when thinking about what is and isn't good design is: "How fun would the game be if everyone of
class ALWAYS played
build." you quickly find that adds should really be avoided at all costs.

Except that the meta would then shift accordingly. If more necros went minion builds, the other classes would have to adjust their builds. We might see power shiro taken with its single target blink and dmg. I think that this is what is interesting. Watching people play different builds and then having to adjust your build accordingly. The lag and visual noise you talk about can be fixed. What cannot be fixed is if the minions were made useless. In which case you have deleted a playstyle of a class.

Going by your rule of thumb, if you nerf one playstyle, won't the other playstyle be more dominant and wouldn't more people play a single type of build? Right now every necromancer is not a minion necromancer and I think that is why people find them tough to counter since the build you normally play with doesn't counter the minionmancer. Getting killed by a minion feels just as bad as getting killed by condi stacks or aoe.

If you want "active gameplay", then conditions should be deleted, damage should be done only on hit (power), and there should be no AOE/pets/clones/turrets/invisiblity. Every class should then have the same armor type. The game would then become something else.

PvP should be looked at as a 5v5 game and not a 1v1 game. Classes are supposed to compliment each other. RIght now, PvP in GW2 does very little to promote this. There is no pick and ban system like Dota 2 has, and people aren't encouraged to play other classes which makes them favor one type of class which results in nerf this, buff that threads. I think the off season needs to have achievements where people are made to play different classes with builds already defined for them. This would be a good starting step and not overwhelm players when picking a new class. Also a pick and ban system before a match begins would greatly enhance communication between players and will improve the build diversity in game.

Dota 2 does this really well. For new players, the amount of heroes they get to play with is limited and players are made to choose from a limited roster of heroes. GW2 can do something similar off-season where players are presented with 10-15 classes (each with a predefined build) and are made to pick/ban between them. That would be seriously fun and I bet people would experiment with different classes more often.

The meta might shift accordingly, but what about us who don't play the meta? So, to counter a MM build you need to use blink, one of the most cheesy playstyles in game. You'd think if the lag+visual noise could be fix it would have been within these past 8 years. . .

I think the build banning thing is interesting and I would be up for trying it. Def would be nice to see a condi . . . anything on the other team and say NO.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Shao.7236 said:If you want to kill that build, have a lot of CC to keep the Necro still.

Lmao. Not cuz it is wrong, but when the best way to kill most builds is chain CC, something is very wrong.There is nothing less mobile than a minion master in this game. If you can aoe the minions then you don't even need to cc the scourge - which by the way would be a walk in the park because that build has 0 (zero!) stunbreaks. Even the vallun video shows how poor this build performs. He is having a hard time against a hacking keyboard turner skill level revenant and dies to every 2v1 focus within a few seconds.

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