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Follow Up to my Original Post, "The Death of Thief"


darren.1064

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

Non-horizontal map. Did not use swiftness on Soulbeast. Did not maximise speed on Soulbeast. Multiple mistakes on warrior and soulbeast. Poorly optimised pathing on warrior and soulbeast. Gee wiz, I wonder why you got that result with how shoddy your methodology was. Now try it again in WvW, on a perfectly flat stretch of land, in a straight line, without making mistakes.

Edit: oh and nice blatant lie at the end. Daredevil would slow down quite a bit as well, warrior would slow down a lot less.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

Non-horizontal map. Did not use swiftness on Soulbeast. Did not maximise speed on Soulbeast. Multiple mistakes on warrior and soulbeast. Poorly optimised pathing on warrior and soulbeast. Gee wiz, I wonder why you got that result with how shoddy your methodology was. Now try it again in WvW, on a perfectly flat stretch of land, in a straight line, without making mistakes.

Go on , Play yourself a Ranger or warrior and prove him wrong !

Duel !Race!Duel !Race!

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@Naqam a.6521 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

Non-horizontal map. Did not use swiftness on Soulbeast. Did not maximise speed on Soulbeast. Multiple mistakes on warrior and soulbeast. Poorly optimised pathing on warrior and soulbeast. Gee wiz, I wonder why you got that result with how shoddy your methodology was. Now try it again in WvW, on a perfectly flat stretch of land, in a straight line, without making mistakes.

Go on , Play yourself a Ranger or warrior and prove him wrong !

Duel !Duel!Duel !

That's what I was thinking. I'd truly enjoy it if this guy would get in-game on his Ranger to prove me wrong.

We can record that too ^^

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

Non-horizontal map. Did not use swiftness on Soulbeast. Did not maximise speed on Soulbeast. Multiple mistakes on warrior and soulbeast. Poorly optimised pathing on warrior and soulbeast. Gee wiz, I wonder why you got that result with how shoddy your methodology was. Now try it again in WvW, on a perfectly flat stretch of land, in a straight line, without making mistakes.

Go on , Play yourself a Ranger or warrior and prove him wrong !

Duel !Duel!Duel !

That's what I was thinking. I'd truly enjoy it if this guy would get in-game on his Ranger to prove me wrong.

We can record that too ^^

No you wouldnt. Once the methodology is proper, youd start smug. Then the race happens, you quickly realise "wait shit Im going to lose", and once you do, you will act like nothing ever happened and continue to spout the same nonsense. Ive had that happen twice before. Im not about to waste time on that rubbish. So go on. Do it yourself with the proper methodology, and show us the result. Or more accurately, do that, and never show it because it doesnt show what you want it to show.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

Non-horizontal map. Did not use swiftness on Soulbeast. Did not maximise speed on Soulbeast. Multiple mistakes on warrior and soulbeast. Poorly optimised pathing on warrior and soulbeast. Gee wiz, I wonder why you got that result with how shoddy your methodology was. Now try it again in WvW, on a perfectly flat stretch of land, in a straight line, without making mistakes.

Go on , Play yourself a Ranger or warrior and prove him wrong !

Duel !Duel!Duel !

That's what I was thinking. I'd truly enjoy it if this guy would get in-game on his Ranger to prove me wrong.

We can record that too ^^

No you wouldnt. Once the methodology is proper, youd start smug. Then the race happens, you quickly realise "wait kitten Im going to lose", and once you do, you will act like nothing ever happened and continue to spout the same nonsense. Ive had that happen twice before. Im not about to waste time on that rubbish. So go on. Do it yourself with the proper methodology, and show us the result. Or more accurately, do that, and never show it because it doesnt show what you want it to show.

PtlrqUD.jpg

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

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@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Warrior would be a bit faster with sword/wh and ranger would obviously be faster with mh sword and clean about-face lightning reflexes. With that being said, thief could also be faster with spamming agility signet and channeled vigor for extra dash dodges (50% movement speed in stealth is negligible in ooc test) as well as running infiltrator sig or about-face roll for initiative for more sb 5's, not to mention potential for shadow portal in a there and back test as opposed to a one way test.

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@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Warrior would be a bit faster with sword/wh and ranger would obviously be faster with mh sword and clean about-face lightning reflexes. With that being said, thief could also be faster with spamming agility signet and channeled vigor for extra dash dodges (50% movement speed in stealth is negligible in ooc test) as well as running infiltrator sig or about-face roll for initiative for more sb 5's, not to mention potential for shadow portal in a there and back test as opposed to a one way test.

O yeah shadow portal would be significantly cancer here

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

Non-horizontal map. Did not use swiftness on Soulbeast. Did not maximise speed on Soulbeast. Multiple mistakes on warrior and soulbeast. Poorly optimised pathing on warrior and soulbeast. Gee wiz, I wonder why you got that result with how shoddy your methodology was. Now try it again in WvW, on a perfectly flat stretch of land, in a straight line, without making mistakes.

Go on , Play yourself a Ranger or warrior and prove him wrong !

Duel !Duel!Duel !

That's what I was thinking. I'd truly enjoy it if this guy would get in-game on his Ranger to prove me wrong.

We can record that too ^^

No you wouldnt. Once the methodology is proper, youd start smug. Then the race happens, you quickly realise "wait kitten Im going to lose", and once you do, you will act like nothing ever happened and continue to spout the same nonsense. Ive had that happen twice before. Im not about to waste time on that rubbish. So go on. Do it yourself with the proper methodology, and show us the result. Or more accurately, do that, and never show it because it doesnt show what you want it to show.

PtlrqUD.jpg

You would be wrong. Was this supposed to be a riddle? Again, as I just explained to you, your methodology was unbelievably shoddy. So shoddy that both ranger and warrior lost a lot of time to it. And yet the advantage wasnt particularly major. What do you think would happen if you fixed the methodology and let Warrior and Ranger gain the lost time, hm?

Oh and while I cant fix your choice of a non-horizontal map, I can fix the rest. So, with a not very well optimised attempt, I got 1:25 on warrior. And I think there is room to shave off another 5 seconds. And that despite the fact that since I joined an empty room, I had to take a detour since I couldnt destroy one set of gates. Now imagine if the vertical advantage wasnt there.

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@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take 10 seconds off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my first attempt.

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@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Warrior would be a bit faster with sword/wh and ranger would obviously be faster with mh sword and clean about-face lightning reflexes. With that being said, thief could also be faster with spamming agility signet and channeled vigor for extra dash dodges (50% movement speed in stealth is negligible in ooc test) as well as running infiltrator sig or about-face roll for initiative for more sb 5's, not to mention potential for shadow portal in a there and back test as opposed to a one way test.

The problem is that none of that actually pans out well on Ranger. About facing with LR just doesn't work out well, there is too much animation pause and too many things can go wrong. Even with a macro, it's not worth the trouble. Try it and you'll see what I mean. And 1hand sword just strangely doesn't work out well. It's the same thing when UNO mentioned using pet swapping on Soulbeast which doesn't have any gains in speed because the 9s merge CD between each swap. The skill cycling actually isn't worth it if you're aiming for distance traveled, not to mention that Bird Swoop was put to an 18s CD, whereas Gazelle is 12s. It's just best to spam Gazelle F2. Again, go try this stuff out for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

Also consider we aren't talking theoretical run builds here. We're talking actual builds that you'd want to play pvp/wvw with and not suck when in combat.

I can't speak for Warrior or Thief adjustments as I'm no master of those classes, but I'm telling you the Soulbeast build in that video is near peak performance in terms of speed. The only thing that could make it go faster is the 3% gain if it had perma swiftness and if I had practiced that route 10x or something like a Beetle race before recording it so I could cut every corner with maximum precision. And even if I did that, I may pick up a margin of 5s or something on the route, but nothing that would even begin to make pace with the DP Daredevil. And if I had done the same thing "practice the route & rotation" on the DP Daredevil, I could probably pick up 6 to 8 seconds or more of ground.

And again... I mean... if you're talking in combat, that +50% while stealthed puts DP Daredevil way way way ahead of Ranger & Warrior in terms of sheer horizontal movement, and that's not even considering it's ability to port up and over objects for serious corner cutting.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Warrior would be a bit faster with sword/wh and ranger would obviously be faster with mh sword and clean about-face lightning reflexes. With that being said, thief could also be faster with spamming agility signet and channeled vigor for extra dash dodges (50% movement speed in stealth is negligible in ooc test) as well as running infiltrator sig or about-face roll for initiative for more sb 5's, not to mention potential for shadow portal in a there and back test as opposed to a one way test.

The problem is that none of that actually pans out well on Ranger. Believe me, I have 8+ years deep experience with concocting impossible to chase Ranger builds. About facing with LR just doesn't work out well, there is too much animation pause and too many things can go wrong. Even with a macro, it's not worth the trouble. Try it and you'll see what I mean. And 1hand sword just strangely doesn't work out well. It's the same thing when UNO mentioned using pet swapping on Soulbeast which doesn't have any gains in speed because the 9s merge CD between each swap. The skill cycling actually isn't worth it if you're aiming for distance traveled, not to mention that Bird Swoop was put to an 18s CD, whereas Gazelle is 12s. It's just best to spam Gazelle F2. Again, go try this stuff out for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

Also consider we aren't talking theoretical run builds here. We're talking actual builds that you'd want to play pvp/wvw with and not suck when in combat.

I can't speak for Warrior or Thief adjustments as I'm no master of those classes, but I'm telling you the Soulbeast build in that video is near peak performance in terms of speed. The only thing that could make it go faster is the 3% gain if it had perma swiftness and if I had practiced that route 10x or something like a Beetle race before recording it so I could cut every corner with maximum precision. And even if I did that, I may pick up a margin of 5s or something on the route, but nothing that would even begin to make pace with the DP Daredevil. And if I had done the same thing "practice the route & rotation" on the DP Daredevil, I could probably pick up 6 to 8 seconds or more of ground.

Yeah thats why I was able to get down to a 1:25 time during my first attempt, and 1:23 within 4 attempts while keeping one set of gates locked (forcing me to use the teleport thing). "Near peak performance" my ass. You did it so horribly you managed to lose 10 seconds of free time, and there is still room for optimisation. I think matching thieves 1:17 is pretty doable. On the other hand, the thief route you optimised pretty perfectly. I was only able to gain a bit less than a second, and pretty much even that just thanks to you dodging into a gate.

And again... I mean... if you're talking in combat, that +50% while stealthed puts DP Daredevil way way way ahead of Ranger & Warrior in terms of sheer horizontal movement, and that's not even considering it's ability to port up and over objects for serious corner cutting.

No, actually, it doesnt. See, in-combat whats more important than the 50% vs 33% is how much of your movement is done with movement abilities. Because those do not get any slower. So the more time you spend using those, the more of an edge you gain. And Warrior and Ranger spend more time using those than thief does. That pulls ahead more than the occasional 50%. And as for the " ability to port up and over objects for serious corner cutting.", thats precisely missing the point. We were comparing horizontal movement, where you cant do that all.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take
10 seconds
off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my
first
attempt.

Fight with him !Install OCB too (recored program) and video-tape the matchBoth will have proofs of what happens

I will incinerate with my cheassy daily hero burn Guardian , anyone who do something wrong !

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@Naqam a.6521 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take
10 seconds
off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my
first
attempt.

Fight with him !Install OCB too (recored program) and video-tape the matchBoth will have proofs of what happens

I will incinerate with my cheassy daily hero burn Guardian , anyone who do something wrong !

I love how that guy claims that he logs into ranger, cuts my time by 10s somehow, doesn't record it for proof.

Then he claims that somehow my Thief route was optimized perfectly but somehow my Ranger route was trash, despite me being a Ranger main who never plays Thief.

Anyway, this is silly. My work is done here unless this guy is willing to go in game with me.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take
10 seconds
off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my
first
attempt.

Fight with him !Install OCB too (recored program) and video-tape the matchBoth will have proofs of what happens

I will incinerate with my cheassy daily hero burn Guardian , anyone who do something wrong !

I love how that guy claims that he logs into ranger, cuts my time by 10s somehow, doesn't record it for proof.

Installing OBS or some other tool is more effort than youre worth. And that "somehow" wasnt exactly difficult. Besides using Owl + Gazelle, I also didnt keep delaying my skills, didnt take wide detours and didnt bonk into walls. Oh and I didnt forget about swiftness, but thats neither here nor there.

Then he claims that somehow my Thief route was optimized perfectly but somehow my Ranger route was trash, despite me being a Ranger main who never plays Thief.

What does being a main have to do with anything? With thief there were no skills you could delay. You didnt take wide detours, you didnt bonk into walls. Legit the only thing ruining the perfect streak is the dodge into the gate teleport.

Anyway, this is silly. My work is done here unless this guy is willing to go in game with me.

But you didnt do anything.

Obvious reference aside, no. Your work would be done when you do a proper test in WvW, on a horizontal plane, in a straight line, with optimal skill usage. Until then you just have a shoddy test that is clearly worthless and that I was able to outperform within less than 10 minutes.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take
10 seconds
off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my
first
attempt.

Fight with him !Install OCB too (recored program) and video-tape the matchBoth will have proofs of what happens

I will incinerate with my cheassy daily hero burn Guardian , anyone who do something wrong !

I love how that guy claims that he logs into ranger, cuts my time by 10s somehow, doesn't record it for proof.

Installing OBS or some other tool is more effort than youre worth.

You don't have to. I will record it for us. All we have to do is go to the same place and race in a straight line, and then post the video in this discussion.

Let me know when you're ready.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take
10 seconds
off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my
first
attempt.

Fight with him !Install OCB too (recored program) and video-tape the matchBoth will have proofs of what happens

I will incinerate with my cheassy daily hero burn Guardian , anyone who do something wrong !

I love how that guy claims that he logs into ranger, cuts my time by 10s somehow, doesn't record it for proof.

Installing OBS or some other tool is more effort than youre worth.

You don't have to. I will record it for us. All we have to do is go to the same place and race in a straight line, and then post the video in this discussion.

Let me know when you're ready.

Which part of "I dont like wasting time" is difficult to understand? Not to mention the obvious problem of trying to coordinate in WvW (assuming we even are in a matchup). Test it with someone on the same server as you.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take
10 seconds
off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my
first
attempt.

Fight with him !Install OCB too (recored program) and video-tape the matchBoth will have proofs of what happens

I will incinerate with my cheassy daily hero burn Guardian , anyone who do something wrong !

I love how that guy claims that he logs into ranger, cuts my time by 10s somehow, doesn't record it for proof.

Installing OBS or some other tool is more effort than youre worth.

You don't have to. I will record it for us. All we have to do is go to the same place and race in a straight line, and then post the video in this discussion.

Let me know when you're ready.

Which part of "I dont like wasting time" is difficult to understand? Not to mention the obvious problem of trying to coordinate in WvW (assuming we even
are
in a matchup). Test it with someone on the same server as you.

We can run in a straight line across Lion's Arch, starting from the fractal portal all the way north to the entrance to Gendarran Fields. Totally a straight horizontal flat line. It's even straight and flat enough to make riding a beetle easy down that path.

Let me know when you're ready.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

This seems 100% accurate. Trevor even took the time to not use thief teleports in vertical areas he could so thief would possibly be faster meanwhile the only thing different he could do on ranger is play sword mainhand, which is only playable for core or owl which might make him a few secs faster cuz of swiftness but owl is also a weak option, also warrior he could have used stomp but that would make like a 5 sec difference at most. Yeah the pathing for ranger was mediocre at one point but Trevor also pointed that out before in his calculations plus no optimal pathing would make up that 20 secs which btw thief could have even more if they had a mainhand sword and/or infiltration signet.

Oh there is a lot different he could do. Not use a non-horizontal map. Not make multiple major mistakes on warrior and ranger losing precious time. Not route them suboptimally while routing thief optimally. On my second try I was able to take
10 seconds
off of his warrior time. Oh and thief cant get any faster.

Edit: Shaved off 10 seconds off of his ranger time on my
first
attempt.

Fight with him !Install OCB too (recored program) and video-tape the matchBoth will have proofs of what happens

I will incinerate with my cheassy daily hero burn Guardian , anyone who do something wrong !

I love how that guy claims that he logs into ranger, cuts my time by 10s somehow, doesn't record it for proof.

Installing OBS or some other tool is more effort than youre worth.

You don't have to. I will record it for us. All we have to do is go to the same place and race in a straight line, and then post the video in this discussion.

Let me know when you're ready.

Which part of "I dont like wasting time" is difficult to understand? Not to mention the obvious problem of trying to coordinate in WvW (assuming we even
are
in a matchup). Test it with someone on the same server as you.

We can run in a straight line across Lion's Arch, starting from the fractal portal all the way north to the entrance to Gendarran Fields. Totally a straight horizontal flat line. It's even straight and flat enough to make riding a beetle easy down that path.

First, which part of "waste of time" is too hard to understand? Second, Im going to have to ask if you actually know what the words "straight" and "horizontal" mean. That path is many things, but straight and horizontal it is not. You literally go over a heavily curved bridge. Third, you do realise that that experiment has a few major issues, yes? For example the fact that the ranger and warrior would have a free movement speed cap. Or the fact that several skills are different from WvW/sPvP.

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@"Sifu.9745" said:I play Staff + P/P or SB Thief and my survivability is quite high thx to infinite dodges and Stealth (much higher than Repaer with zero survivability), but dmg on Staff is a bit low, lower then double Pistol dmg lol. Anyway Staff is the most fun Thief's weapon imo and is easy to play for a casual like me.

Edit: About "Thief has no dmg": yesterday a stealthy dagger/pistol thief deleted my Thief three times in a row within 3 -5 seconds in unranked pvp! I didn't even realized what's going on. 50% + health gone from a stealth attack (backstab i guess), another 50% in next 3 to max 5 seconds before i was able to react (it was night and i was a bit sleepy with low concentration but anyway, dmg was just absurd) I have never experienced such a brutal burst before. Show me any other profession that can burst you down so quickly, with exception of burn Guardian.

Yeah, I've always enjoyed staff but it just has no place in this meta.

Tried a few games earlier and it's just way too much effort to land any damage, and the damage you do land pales in comparison to some block spam core symbol/burn guard.

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@Bast.7253 said:

@"Sifu.9745" said:I play Staff + P/P or SB Thief and my survivability is quite high thx to infinite dodges and Stealth (much higher than Repaer with zero survivability), but dmg on Staff is a bit low, lower then double Pistol dmg lol. Anyway Staff is the most fun Thief's weapon imo and is easy to play for a casual like me.

Edit: About "Thief has no dmg": yesterday a stealthy dagger/pistol thief deleted my Thief three times in a row within 3 -5 seconds in unranked pvp! I didn't even realized what's going on. 50% + health gone from a stealth attack (backstab i guess), another 50% in next 3 to max 5 seconds before i was able to react (it was night and i was a bit sleepy with low concentration but anyway, dmg was just absurd) I have never experienced such a brutal burst before. Show me any other profession that can burst you down so quickly, with exception of burn Guardian.

Yeah, I've always enjoyed staff but it just has no place in this meta.

Tried a few games earlier and it's just way too much effort to land any damage, and the damage you do land pales in comparison to some block spam core symbol/burn guard.

The skills team needs to remove the evade off vault to make it a good weapon in PvP, it'll always be trash until they do that as that skill being an evade holds the weapon back forever in PvP.

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@Bast.7253 said:

@"Sifu.9745" said:I play Staff + P/P or SB Thief and my survivability is quite high thx to infinite dodges and Stealth (much higher than Repaer with zero survivability), but dmg on Staff is a bit low, lower then double Pistol dmg lol. Anyway Staff is the most fun Thief's weapon imo and is easy to play for a casual like me.

Edit: About "Thief has no dmg": yesterday a stealthy dagger/pistol thief deleted my Thief three times in a row within 3 -5 seconds in unranked pvp! I didn't even realized what's going on. 50% + health gone from a stealth attack (backstab i guess), another 50% in next 3 to max 5 seconds before i was able to react (it was night and i was a bit sleepy with low concentration but anyway, dmg was just absurd) I have never experienced such a brutal burst before. Show me any other profession that can burst you down so quickly, with exception of burn Guardian.

Yeah, I've always enjoyed staff but it just has no place in this meta.

Tried a few games earlier and it's just way too much effort to land any damage, and the damage you do land pales in comparison to some block spam core symbol/burn guard.

Vault damage is quite good rn though it’s one of the few things that devs barely nerfed alongside sword 3 and heartseeker. There is however no point in comparing it core symbols or burn guard. It’s not the same role- staff is still gonna be a roamer so comparing it to a side noder or team fight builds damage makes no sense half the time when 75% of matches you will do 1/3 the damage of non bot players who play those things.

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