Can't choose: condi DD or condi DE

[ArielRebel.3426]

A returning player, always loved thief since the game came out and so started playing it again a month or 2 ago after a long hiatus. I mostly do Meta and world events while trying to unlock the griffon but want to go eventually go back in WvW again once I have good gear. So I decided to try a different play style than berserker DE (with Tr, SA) and now I can't decide between condi DD or DE (both would be with DA and SA). Now, keep in mind, I'm trying to go for a Dire/Trailblazer setup so I don't get vaporized instantly.

DE, advantages:

1. nice initiative sustain thanks to Malificent Seven, if you don't miss too much and with a bit of luck you can crit enough that in
2. nice stealth sustain thanks to Improv allowing 2 stolen skills which stealth when at 5 to 7 malice stacks + random utility skill recharge on steal.
3. Mercy is great for stun break + helps with initiative sustain or when you quickly want to put your mark on somebody else or reset it.
4. Iron sight is a great passive that further boosts your dueling capabilities.
5. Full malice stacks (7) with the pistol stealth attack deals crazy torment damage too.DE, disadvantages:
6. Rifle is awkward for a condi build and boring (90% of it is spamming the skill #2 while kneeled for the immob procing poison).
7. Second tier of talents/traits for the DE tree are all useless when not using a rifle (top one is great for easy stealth access but requires rifle which we don't want to use the stealth attack with anyway).

DD, advantages:

1. Tankier in general (thx to Marauder's Resilience, Weakening Strikes and Unindered Combatant giving up to 27% damage reduction all together).
2. More dodges and dodges give swiftness + movement imparing removal.DD, disadvantage:
3. No damage improvement.

So yeah... I wondering what you guys/girls/charrs think I should use?

[saerni.2584]

Depends on your weapons. DE is very good for ranged builds in general and adds in torment which is a nice bonus.

DA condi DE has its strengths but I find you want Trickery involved for better overall sustain. That leaves either a lower initiative build or you drop DA for a more hybrid approach.

This is an example of what a hybrid approach looks like.

[ArielRebel.3426]

@"saerni.2584" said:Depends on your weapons. DE is very good for ranged builds in general and adds in torment which is a nice bonus.

DA condi DE has its strengths but I find you want Trickery involved for better overall sustain. That leaves either a lower initiative build or you drop DA for a more hybrid approach.

This is an example of what a hybrid approach looks like.

Thanks for the reply. Was curious to know what gear prefix and traits are you using for hybrid build? I actually never even thought of trying out hybrid build... always thought that it would be mediocre (instead of being great at one thing, it would be meh at both).

[saerni.2584]

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@"saerni.2584" said:Depends on your weapons. DE is very good for ranged builds in general and adds in torment which is a nice bonus.

DA condi DE has its strengths but I find you want Trickery involved for better overall sustain. That leaves either a lower initiative build or you drop DA for a more hybrid approach.

This is an example of what a hybrid approach looks like.

Thanks for the reply. Was curious to know what gear prefix and traits are you using for hybrid build? I actually never even thought of trying out hybrid build... always thought that it would be mediocre (instead of being great at one thing, it would be meh at both).

It’s a combo of carrion/grieving with some rampager thrown in. SA, Trick, DE

Estimated stats (in a fight) are 2.3k power 1.7k condi, 95-99% crit (depending on local auras the crit may hit 100% during bursts).

It hits hard. But the condi is supplementary so you don’t end up higher than a net 4k condi tick (with no cleanse and a lot of stuff hitting perfectly).

[ASP.8093]

As you know, the thief's main condi weapon set is Pistol/Dagger. Which is peculiar because it's a ranged burst that needs to be set up from melee (either 5->1 sneak attack or 3->3->3 with Repeater).

Deadeye poses a slight problem for this because your Steal no longer teleports you. You can kinda make up for it by running other stealth abilities (including Shadow Meld), but it's definitely a weakness in the build. And you still end up with way less stealth access than a Power Rifle build that can access Silent Scope.

The other weakness is that the Deadeye trait line itself basically gives you nothing for condition builds, except some incidental Might from M7. (Daredevil at least has the weird dodge and also a condi cleanse that stacks really well with Antitoxin runes).

[saerni.2584]

Stealth off stolen skills and the bonus torment including bleed from Malicious Sneak Attack makes DE more correct for condi (pure or hybrid).

The use of Repeater isn’t so much peculiar as a natural kiting skill similar to Death’s Retreat on rifle. What you lost is needing to hit versus getting more condi than DR provides.

[ArielRebel.3426]

Yeah, honestly I kind of quickly grew bored of condi thief. You are really forced into using P/D and so the playstyle has the same issues that power DE has: spamming 90% of the timea single ability to get your 7 malice stacks to then stealth using the stolen skill (mainly) to then use your stealth attack. Feels good to use, but too repetitive to my liking and not as satisfying as critting for big numbers with power/crit deadeye. Decided to go back to a power build, currently exploring daredevil D/P + staff using Impacting Disruption with lots of disabling effects (from say Reflexive Strike, Palm Strike, Impact Strike/Uppercut, staff stealth attack and D/P's headshot skill). Seeing how it goes as a damage/control build. So far it's been quite satisfying to use and not as bad as I thought it'd be against enemies with defiance bars. At least all that CC makes it really easy to destroy the defiance bar. On the other hand, I doubt it's as effective against players.