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Follow Up to my Original Post, "The Death of Thief"


darren.1064

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

No. Only that it isnt the highest
horizontal
mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

Now you do realize that if Ranger were actually faster than a Thief, we would have seen literally "unkillable uncatchable" Soulbeast bunkers a very long time ago, that could outrotate Thieves. It would have been noticed on like day 1 release of POF.

The closest we've ever gotten to are old Boonbeast bunkers and they certainly were never anywhere near as fast as a Thief.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

No. Only that it isnt the highest
horizontal
mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

Yes because

When it comes to track & field, some guys who were only mediocre while running around the track field, would move so much faster while going in only a straight line, and for some reason the guys were the fastest while going around the track field would magically slow down if forced to go in a straight line.

Or perhaps its because dashes dont mesh well with inclines and cliffs, and targetted teleports do. By your logic there is no way the cheetah would ever beat the Ibex in a race, since the Ibex was so dominant when the race involved going up and down cliffs.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

No. Only that it isnt the highest
horizontal
mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

Yes because

When it comes to track & field, some guys who were only mediocre while running around the track field, would move so much faster while going in only a straight line, and for some reason the guys were the fastest while going around the track field would magically slow down if forced to go in a straight line.

Or perhaps its because dashes dont mesh well with inclines and cliffs, and targetted teleports do. By your logic there is no way the cheetah would ever beat the Ibex in a race, since the Ibex was so dominant when the race involved going up and down cliffs.

Dude a conquest map is not running up the side of Mount Maelstrom.

It is visually obvious in my video posted that running that lap in legacy mechanically functions exactly the same as if a player had ran in a straight line across Lion's Arch. I mean it's not impeding any of the class skills more or less than if I had ran in a straight line across a WvW map.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

No. Only that it isnt the highest
horizontal
mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

Yes because

When it comes to track & field, some guys who were only mediocre while running around the track field, would move so much faster while going in only a straight line, and for some reason the guys were the fastest while going around the track field would magically slow down if forced to go in a straight line.

Or perhaps its because dashes dont mesh well with inclines and cliffs, and targetted teleports do. By your logic there is no way the cheetah would ever beat the Ibex in a race, since the Ibex was so dominant when the race involved going up and down cliffs.

Dude a conquest map is not running up the side of Mount Maelstrom.

It was an exaggerated example, but the point stands.

It is visually obvious in my video posted that running that lap in legacy mechanically functions exactly the same as if a player had ran in a straight line across Lion's Arch.

It is visually obvious that that is absolutely NOT the case. If you compare the first and second dash of rampage, the second got you quite a fair bit less far (since you used it up an incline). Or how about your whirlwind attack up the staircase that basically didnt move you at all? Or how about the dashes that stopped moving you off a cliff, meaning you had to land before you could continue to move? Or how about you bonking into walls, and delaying your skills to first align them since there was no clear path? Plus the fact that since you had a curved route, linear dashes constantly were suboptimal. All major timelosses that do not affect the thief. I was able to shave 10 seconds off just by removing some of these timelosses.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.
  3. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.
  4. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.
  5. About facing for the use of LR just doesn't work out the way that people always beleive it would. It's great for escaping combat positions but it's garbage in a race. The time it takes to actually about face the first time and then to do it a second time after landing, is too much time to make this technique worth using in a race. Again, try it yourself and you'll see what I mean. It isn't practical to do. Maybe if you had a macro it could make a small gain but even then it wouldn't be much. Believe it or not, just running with 33% swiftness is 90% as fast as monkeying around with LR about facing.
  6. And about Thief yeah, I had thought about that as well. I didn't like sit and practice that lap over and over like a Beetle race for a gold reward so, it is what it is in the film. I made mistakes on each class, small mistakes. But the video is a good representation of the reality of the speed potentials. If I had polished up the laps, the D/P Daredevil would still be making large solid ground beyond the War and the Range. The use of just Shadowstep in the way you just explained, is a huge increase in time by itself. That would cut like 4s or more on the lap right there, just that one technique.
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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

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@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Oh, do they now?. Yeah thats a load of kitten. And you use it while merged. And then there are stances or warhorn or whatever.

That "weird animation" is called a cast time. Its still faster. And sure, as I said, its redundant anyway. Youre ahead. And sure it wouldnt be good for 1v1s or teamfights. But neither is thief, is it? The point is to have a hypothetical thief analogue that can move across the map if they were horizontal.

I get the feeling you don't really run rangers in spvp? The entire array of stuff you're talking about seems to combine pets and weapons that would never appear all at once in a practical spvp build. At this point you'll probably just say "well this is about a hypothetical foot race!" But to me, that only reinforces the idea that thief mobillity in realistic/practical spvp situations is not nearly as disadvantaged as you make it sound.

Also, as it pertains to the ranger MH sw2 cast time, it really does matter. The very sticky delays on both sword 3 and about-face sword 2 for mobility really cut into that combo's ability to move rangers across the field. I've practiced that opening many times in many matches, and guess what? Teammates just running in a straight line out of spawn can easily match me, and outright beat me if they have swiftness. What you dismiss as a mere cast time animation is 100% relevant here, as it significantly slows movement.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

I'd put my money on you, solely because Uno seems not to have played rangers recently.

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Crystal Oasis, start at the first WP in the city, run the path that leads to Kormir's Temple.

It's 90% straight horizontal lines, outside of a few wide & easy to manage turns, and 1 flight of steps that leads up to the temple. There aren't even any creatures that will get in your way.

This path is every bit as easy to run as anywhere in wvw.

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Oh,
. Yeah thats a load of kitten. And you use it while merged. And then there are stances or warhorn or whatever.

That "weird animation" is called a cast time. Its still faster. And sure, as I said, its redundant anyway. Youre ahead. And sure it wouldnt be good for 1v1s or teamfights. But neither is thief, is it? The point is to have a hypothetical thief analogue that can move across the map if they were horizontal.

I get the feeling you don't really run rangers in spvp? The entire array of stuff you're talking about seems to combine pets and weapons that would never appear all at once in a practical spvp build. At this point you'll probably just say "well this is about a hypothetical foot race!" But to me, that only reinforces the idea that thief mobillity in realistic/practical spvp situations is not nearly as disadvantaged as you make it sound.

Also, as it pertains to the ranger MH sw2 cast time, it really does matter.
The very sticky delays on both sword 3 and about-face sword 2 for mobility really cut into that combo's ability to move rangers across the field. I've practiced that opening many times in many matches, and guess what? Teammates just running in a straight line out of spawn can easily match me, and outright beat me if they have swiftness.
What you dismiss as a mere cast time animation is 100% relevant here, as it significantly slows movement.

Exactly.

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Wow weird arguement. Thief is faster than ranger on any plane. Ranger does have great mobility, as it should but it doesn't match thief's which it shouldn't for a variety of reasons which should be obvious to most players.Sure wars and rangers can keep up to thief for a distance but thief would pull a head over time 100%. Rogue like are usually the highest mobility archetype in mmo's and gw2 is no different.

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Oh,
. Yeah thats a load of kitten. And you use it while merged. And then there are stances or warhorn or whatever.

That "weird animation" is called a cast time. Its still faster. And sure, as I said, its redundant anyway. Youre ahead. And sure it wouldnt be good for 1v1s or teamfights. But neither is thief, is it? The point is to have a hypothetical thief analogue that can move across the map if they were horizontal.

I get the feeling you don't really run rangers in spvp? The entire array of stuff you're talking about seems to combine pets and weapons that would never appear all at once in a practical spvp build. At this point you'll probably just say "well this is about a hypothetical foot race!" But to me, that only reinforces the idea that thief mobillity in realistic/practical spvp situations is not nearly as disadvantaged as you make it sound.

Boonbeast wasnt that long ago, yknow? Hell, in WvW its still a thing. And no I never said its disadvantaged. Perfectly horizontal movement is not a realistic scenario outside of WvW. In sPvP, with its vertical maps, thief is at a major advantage. But, that was the point. The original context for this was me saying that thieves mobility in an sPvP context was unmatched. That you couldnt buff thief because no one moves as fast. Someone else chimed in that Ranger and Warrior were also extremely mobile. I pointed out that while they do outrun thief in a perfectly horizontal space, sPvP map design renders that advantage moot. And then Trevor decided to say "nah ranger and warrior totally dont outrun thief in a horizontal race", and used all kinds of wacky logic and shoddy methodology to try (and fail) to prove it.

Also, as it pertains to the ranger MH sw2 cast time, it really does matter. The very sticky delays on both sword 3 and about-face sword 2 for mobility really cut into that combo's ability to move rangers across the field. I've practiced that opening many times in many matches, and guess what? Teammates just running in a straight line out of spawn can easily match me, and outright beat me if they have swiftness. What you dismiss as a mere cast time animation is 100% relevant here, as it significantly slows movement.

Yeah Im gonna easily call bullshit. Actually, why are you talking sword? I ended up not using sword in any of the comparisions. For that matter, why are you using about-face on sword 2, its sword 3 that evades backwards.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own bullshit.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WarclawNotes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

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@Naqam a.6521 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

I am sorry but i am stating the factsYou said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

Just like saying to Trevor ''i don't to to fight becuse you will wrong me , and we cant meet in the WvWvW link'' rather admiting that you are wrong there too :)Just take his bet and go in an open PvE map

I can use too inaccurate links toohttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Movement_Speed#Movement_Speed_Stacking.3FSpeed measurements:''I tested movement speeds by measuring distance via leap abilities and then timing multiple runs between points. Non-combat speed is about 300 range units/second, while combat speed is about 215 range units/second. I've updated the page accordingly. --Deadpoint 04:38, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

I did some testing by measuring the time difference between which a 1200 range skill and a 600 range skill came within range. My exact values were 296 out of combat run, 179 out of combat strafe, 105 out of combat backpedal, 210 in combat run, 178 in combat strafe, and 105 in combat backpedal. This means strafe/backpedal is 60%/35% run speed out of combat but 85%/50% in combat speed. I'm going to put slight approximations (to keep things even seeming) of my numbers on the main page ~ Capric 02:02, 12 September 2012 (UTC)''

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@Naqam a.6521 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

I am sorry but i am stating the facts

No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

I am sorry but i am stating the facts

No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

I am sorry but i am stating the factshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WarclawNotes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

You simply try to pass inaccurate things as true , with me and TrevorTake his race in PvE map please

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@Naqam a.6521 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

I am sorry but i am stating the facts

No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

I am sorry but i am stating the facts
Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

I am sorry but i am stating the facts

No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

I am sorry but i am stating the facts
Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its
the same
. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

If :539 = 100%xxx = 37%

Take Trevor PvE race !

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@Naqam a.6521 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will
never
win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

Funny you mention that.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

Time to ante up boys.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Dont make him repeat himself pls

Too late.

And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

Ranger1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

Thiefmore about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:
  1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
  2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.
  1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.
  1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally
any
skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

lol

Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.So:WvWvW :453 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

PvE :539 u/s mount speed

Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsieAnd there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

I am sorry but i am stating the facts

No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

I am sorry but i am stating the facts
Notes:Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its
the same
. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

If :539 = 100%xxx = 37%

Go on , i wait

Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

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