Please for the love of god sort pvp

[Kachros.4751]

Jus a quick PSA, pvp is an absolute shitshow rn and somehow has yet to be fixed for years whether its matchmaking or class viability, pvp has been even more of a disaster after the absolute fiesta update of February which in all honesty was not needed or wanted by most players. I already know this wont amount to anything but its rather a rant if anything. Fix the fucking gamemode :)

[Kachros.4751]

Ok turns out some words are changed if offensive, incase of "kitten", an absolute crapshow*

[Ghos.1326]

@Kachros.4751 said:Jus a quick PSA, pvp is an absolute kitten rn and somehow has yet to be fixed for years whether its matchmaking or class viability, pvp has been even more of a disaster after the absolute fiesta update of February which in all honesty was not needed or wanted by most players. I already know this wont amount to anything but its rather a rant if anything. Fix the kitten gamemode :)

The February patch was one of the best patches in a long time, but there are a lot of things that were left untouched (which is understandable, can't get everything in one go with little time frame). However, what I'm most concerned about, is they've gone back to less frequent balance passes (even small ones) and little to no communication. So broken things are being left broken for extended periods of time.

[Kachros.4751]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:Jus a quick PSA, pvp is an absolute kitten rn and somehow has yet to be fixed for years whether its matchmaking or class viability, pvp has been even more of a disaster after the absolute fiesta update of February which in all honesty was not needed or wanted by most players. I already know this wont amount to anything but its rather a rant if anything. Fix the kitten gamemode :)

The February patch was one of the best patches in a long time, but there are a lot of things that were left untouched (which is understandable, can't get everything in one go with little time frame). However, what I'm most concerned about, is they've gone back to less frequent balance passes (even small ones) and little to no communication. So broken things are being left broken for extended periods of time.

They changed most of the meta by removing damage from CCs, killing a few classes in terms of viability almost completely and they made almost all of these changes with the casual part of pvp community which is 90% of the community already which has not helped pvp in the slightest. Its been 7 months since then and they have yet to make any decent changes, the meta before Feb was 100 times better than what it has been lately.

[Ghos.1326]

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:Jus a quick PSA, pvp is an absolute kitten rn and somehow has yet to be fixed for years whether its matchmaking or class viability, pvp has been even more of a disaster after the absolute fiesta update of February which in all honesty was not needed or wanted by most players. I already know this wont amount to anything but its rather a rant if anything. Fix the kitten gamemode :)

The February patch was one of the best patches in a long time, but there are a lot of things that were left untouched (which is understandable, can't get everything in one go with little time frame). However, what I'm most concerned about, is they've gone back to less frequent balance passes (even small ones) and little to no communication. So broken things are being left broken for extended periods of time.

They changed most of the meta by removing damage from CCs, killing a few classes in terms of viability almost completely and they made almost all of these changes with the casual part of pvp community which is 90% of the community already which has not helped pvp in the slightest. Its been 7 months since then and they have yet to make any decent changes, the meta before Feb was 100 times better than what it has been lately.

Nooo, the meta before February was literally a one shot "who can hit who first" meta. that was not fun at all.Defense didn't matter during that meta (and the only one who had any kind of defense was warrior). It was a disaster.I think a very small amount of CC should return to the CC skills, but nothing major. At most, most CC skills should only do around 800 damage crit. Some more, and some less, depending on cooldown, cast time, extra effects, etc.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The meta was 100% better pre feb patch, only players who's mains came out of it broken think otherwise. Same few specs spammed every match, u get 2 same players 3 matches in a row who arnt even duo qing cuz since the feb patch pvp population has plummeted worse and faster then it ever has. Games a mess right now, cant believe anyone woulda thought a no thought blanket damage nerf across all classes would work lol it was big patch only cuz how many skills and classes it touched not because it required a lot of work lol, other than the fact it was a zero thought patch that required little considerations. Given anets frequency of updates players warned it would tank pvp and it did.

[Kachros.4751]

Nooo, the meta before February was literally a one shot "who can hit who first" meta. that was not fun at all.Defense didn't matter during that meta (and the only one who had any kind of defense was warrior). It was a disaster.I think a very small amount of CC should return to the CC skills, but nothing major. At most, most CC skills should only do around 800 damage crit. Some more, and some less, depending on cooldown, cast time, extra effects, etc.

Honestly that was highly dependent on your comp and your support but at higher levels it was rarely a matter of who hits first, but meta had around 6 classes that were viable and could switch them around. Depending on your support the fights could last a few minutes and it involved actual skill, timing and coordination. Right now its jus holo coming in, doing 10k burst then nade spam and people die. The only sidenoders capable right now are guardian, scrapper and to some extent ranger. Damage on CC was only good for warrior at the time and they nerfed the regeneration of it which was enough to make it balanced with other sidenoders but anet took it too far. Same with mirage too instead of nerfing THEIR OWN implemented traits they removed a core mechanic of pvp from it (dodge). The choices of anet and the balance has yet to be "good" for years and its horrible to know that theres only 1 class that stands a chance vs holo rn, scrapper is a separate issue. But knowing that the only way to beat decap scrapper or other classes like it is to avoid it. So avoiding pvp IN pvp. the idea of that is absurd. Anet doesnt understand their own gamemode and listen to the same people who also have no clue and "try" to improve based off their bias halfbaked knowledge.

[Ghos.1326]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:The meta was 100% better pre feb patch, only players who's mains came out of it broken think otherwise. Same few specs spammed every match, u get 2 same players 3 matches in a row who arnt even duo qing cuz since the feb patch pvp population has plummeted worse and faster then it ever has. Games a mess right now, cant believe anyone woulda thought a no thought blanket damage nerf across all classes would work lol it was big patch only cuz how many skills and classes it touched not because it required a lot of work lol, other than the fact it was a zero thought patch that required little considerations. Given anets frequency of updates players warned it would tank pvp and it did.

The bit about "only players who's mains came out of it broken think otherwise" is a highly ignorant statement, and quite frankly, it invalidates the rest of the post.Either way, the rest of the post is actually pretty false as well.

[Kachros.4751]

The bit about "only players who's mains came out of it broken think otherwise" is a highly ignorant statement, and quite frankly, it invalidates the rest of the post.Either way, the rest of the post is actually pretty false as well.

I mean ive never really mained a class, i play legit everything so i have a pretty neutral view regarding the entire pvp balance. War is underwhelming, guardian has 1 decent build, rev is a worse version of holo and has only 2 viable builds, ranger is underwhelming, engi is.. quite broken rn :D, thief is NEEDED in any team comp to get max value, ele is only 1 viable build (but even then holo destroys it), mesmer is pretty bad rn, necro has 2 viable builds and is pretty good.

[Ghos.1326]

@"Kachros.4751" said:

Nooo, the meta before February was literally a one shot "who can hit who first" meta. that was not fun at all.Defense didn't matter during that meta (and the only one who had any kind of defense was warrior). It was a disaster.I think a very small amount of CC should return to the CC skills, but nothing major. At most, most CC skills should only do around 800 damage crit. Some more, and some less, depending on cooldown, cast time, extra effects, etc.

Honestly that was highly dependent on your comp and your support but at higher levels it was rarely a matter of who hits first, but meta had around 6 classes that were viable and could switch them around. Depending on your support the fights could last a few minutes and it involved actual skill, timing and coordination. Right now its jus holo coming in, doing 10k burst then nade spam and people die. The only sidenoders capable right now are guardian, scrapper and to some extent ranger. Damage on CC was only good for warrior at the time and they nerfed the regeneration of it which was enough to make it balanced with other sidenoders but anet took it too far. Same with mirage too instead of nerfing THEIR OWN implemented traits they removed a core mechanic of pvp from it (dodge). The choices of anet and the balance has yet to be "good" for years and its horrible to know that theres only 1 class that stands a chance vs holo rn, scrapper is a separate issue. But knowing that the only way to beat decap scrapper or other classes like it is to avoid it. So avoiding pvp IN pvp. the idea of that is absurd. Anet doesnt understand their own gamemode and listen to the same people who also have no clue and "try" to improve based off their bias halfbaked knowledge.

No matter the comp, before February everything had absurd amounts of damage. Even Firebrands that focused mostly on support could still fight solo and teamfight.This recent February patch opened up new possibilities for players to explore new builds. It involved the tweaking of 800+ skills in a single patch. It was a very large patch, with a limited time frame. Things were bound to be missed.This is where the second part of what I said comes into play. The failure to do what they promised, which was smaller frequent balance passes, is why the game doesn't feel like it's moved forward since February. Unfortunately, that has a bigger impact than what people may have expected.

While I agree that things like holo, thief, and ranger are pretty strong right now (holo and thief being pretty broken), Warrior is still in a strong spot. Once the overperforming things in the game are nerfed properly, I think those things like Warrior will be inadvertently buffed. I think Scrapper can also see a small adjustment in System Shocker and the amount of barrier it gets per CC.

Mirage getting some endurance taken away is fine, honestly. What was the mistake, however, is that they got nothing in return: no return of vigor to offset the fact they only have one dodge, no mobility adjustments, etc.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

There's a reason population has dropped significantly since the feb patch, and its not because improved gameplay lol. Never the less enjoy lol.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Ghos.1326 said:This is where the second part of what I said comes into play. The failure to do what they promised, which was smaller frequent balance passes, is why the game doesn't feel like it's moved forward since February. Unfortunately, that has a bigger impact than what people may have expected.

Mirage getting some endurance taken away is fine, honestly. What was the mistake, however, is that they got nothing in return: no return of vigor to offset the fact they only have one dodge, no mobility adjustments, etc.

Why is that a surprise to you? Anyone who's been here for a decent length knew that was going to be the case, the suggestion for faster balancing has been requested for years, even before HoT. They can't do it, and if you thought 1 dev heading the project would be enough, unfortunately that's naive thinking.

You say that like they've ever given any sort of compensation after nerfing something. Removing a dodge from mirage was lazy balancing. All they needed to do was make it so if they get stunned or hard CC'd they can't evade. Believe it or not despite having the modes split, the balance for PvP is still very much dictated by PVE. It's a reason why you won't get class reworks, and very rarely weapon reworks.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:This is where the second part of what I said comes into play. The failure to do what they promised, which was smaller frequent balance passes, is why the game doesn't feel like it's moved forward since February. Unfortunately, that has a bigger impact than what people may have expected.

Mirage getting some endurance taken away is fine, honestly. What was the mistake, however, is that they got nothing in return: no return of vigor to offset the fact they only have one dodge, no mobility adjustments, etc.

Why is that a surprise to you? Anyone who's been here for a decent length knew that was going to be the case, the suggestion for faster balancing has been requested for years, even before HoT. They can't do it, and if you thought 1 dev heading the project would be enough, unfortunately that's naive thinking.

You say that like they've ever given any sort of compensation after nerfing something. Removing a dodge from mirage was lazy balancing. All they needed to do was make it so if they get stunned or hard CC'd they can't evade. Believe it or not despite having the modes split, the balance for PvP is still very much dictated by PVE. It's a reason why you won't get class reworks, and very rarely weapon reworks.

I get a laugh at the devs excuses, "ah we can only change numbers as any mechanical changes or reworks have to be done by the skill design team" WELL THEN GET THE DESIGN TEAM TO DO THE NEEDED CHANGES, not that hard of a problem to solve. The design team is like some magic group within anet that can not be bothered with such trivial things as fixing broken,op or underpowered traits,skills or weapon kits as they have to focus on lw stories etc lmao, get more design devs on the team or make they ones u have set time aside to do the changes needed(looking at u team managers)

[Ghos.1326]

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:This is where the second part of what I said comes into play. The failure to do what they promised, which was smaller frequent balance passes, is why the game doesn't feel like it's moved forward since February. Unfortunately, that has a bigger impact than what people may have expected.

Mirage getting some endurance taken away is fine, honestly. What was the mistake, however, is that they got nothing in return: no return of vigor to offset the fact they only have one dodge, no mobility adjustments, etc.

Why is that a surprise to you? Anyone who's been here for a decent length knew that was going to be the case, the suggestion for faster balancing has been requested for years, even before HoT. They can't do it, and if you thought 1 dev heading the project would be enough, unfortunately that's naive thinking.

You say that like they've ever given any sort of compensation after nerfing something. Removing a dodge from mirage was lazy balancing. All they needed to do was make it so if they get stunned or hard CC'd they can't evade. Believe it or not despite having the modes split, the balance for PvP is still very much dictated by PVE. It's a reason why you won't get class reworks, and very rarely weapon reworks.

It's not really a surprise to me. Just a statement.

In terms of compensation for nerfing something, that's not always needed. That's on a case by case position. Something does not always need to be given when something is nerfed. In this particular case, the Mesmer losing a dodge does deserve more uptime for vigor to offset only having one dodge. Removing endurance is not necessarily lazy balancing, it goes on the "give and take" model. You gain X, but sacrifice Y. Which is a healthy way to balance. They just didn't think too far ahead, is all, and this saying could go with the other things that were missed when balance was passed as well.

[Ghos.1326]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:This is where the second part of what I said comes into play. The failure to do what they promised, which was smaller frequent balance passes, is why the game doesn't feel like it's moved forward since February. Unfortunately, that has a bigger impact than what people may have expected.

Mirage getting some endurance taken away is fine, honestly. What was the mistake, however, is that they got nothing in return: no return of vigor to offset the fact they only have one dodge, no mobility adjustments, etc.

Why is that a surprise to you? Anyone who's been here for a decent length knew that was going to be the case, the suggestion for faster balancing has been requested for years, even before HoT. They can't do it, and if you thought 1 dev heading the project would be enough, unfortunately that's naive thinking.

You say that like they've ever given any sort of compensation after nerfing something. Removing a dodge from mirage was lazy balancing. All they needed to do was make it so if they get stunned or hard CC'd they can't evade. Believe it or not despite having the modes split, the balance for PvP is still very much dictated by PVE. It's a reason why you won't get class reworks, and very rarely weapon reworks.

I get a laugh at the devs excuses, "ah we can only change numbers as any mechanical changes or reworks have to be done by the skill design team" WELL THEN GET THE DESIGN TEAM TO DO THE NEEDED CHANGES, not that hard of a problem to solve. The design team is like some magic group within anet that can not be bothered with such trivial things as fixing broken,op or underpowered traits,skills or weapon kits as they have to focus on lw stories etc lmao, get more design devs on the team or make they ones u have set time aside to do the changes needed(looking at u team managers)

While I agree that the devs aren't too savvy on what goes on with their game in general, some changes don't need to be full on reworks. In my opinion, not every change needs a rework. Some changes that will work are simply numbers changes, whether that pertains to coefficients, raw damage numbers, conditions output/cleared, boons output/corrupted, etc etc.

[Oakendale.2849]

While these problems are correct another glaring issue which has caused more new players to abandon this mode is the toxic community we have.

If you think the toxicity of the current conquest player base has not had a large impact on new players joining or staying - your are kidding yourself.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:This is where the second part of what I said comes into play. The failure to do what they promised, which was smaller frequent balance passes, is why the game doesn't feel like it's moved forward since February. Unfortunately, that has a bigger impact than what people may have expected.

Mirage getting some endurance taken away is fine, honestly. What was the mistake, however, is that they got nothing in return: no return of vigor to offset the fact they only have one dodge, no mobility adjustments, etc.

Why is that a surprise to you? Anyone who's been here for a decent length knew that was going to be the case, the suggestion for faster balancing has been requested for years, even before HoT. They can't do it, and if you thought 1 dev heading the project would be enough, unfortunately that's naive thinking.

You say that like they've ever given any sort of compensation after nerfing something. Removing a dodge from mirage was lazy balancing. All they needed to do was make it so if they get stunned or hard CC'd they can't evade. Believe it or not despite having the modes split, the balance for PvP is still very much dictated by PVE. It's a reason why you won't get class reworks, and very rarely weapon reworks.

It's not really a surprise to me. Just a statement.

In terms of compensation for nerfing something, that's not always needed. That's on a case by case position. Something does not always need to be given when something is nerfed. In this particular case, the Mesmer losing a dodge does deserve more uptime for vigor to offset only having one dodge. Removing endurance is not necessarily lazy balancing, it goes on the "give and take" model. You gain X, but sacrifice Y. Which is a healthy way to balance. They just didn't think too far ahead, is all, and this saying could go with the other things that were missed when balance was passed as well.

I'm not saying it's always needed, I'm asking when was there ever a time Anet compensated a class after nerfing it, even when it needed compensation? It's lazy balancing, removing 50% of an integral mechanic of Gw2 in aspect of an E-spec trade off is lazy balancing, Didn't Mirage already trade off the ability to jump dodge and the distance traveled compared to a normal dodge? You cannot recuperate the loss of your dodge capacity like you can with something like Berserker of Scrapper loss of stats, it makes the spec a downgrade rather than a side grade. This is why they needed a deep dive of every class instead of February blanket nerfs because every class operates different, and you'd balance accordingly, and keep class definition. It would've taken a lot of work but instead you got hit with a blanket nerf that stayed for 6-7 months now? Balance that's just going to get screwed over again when the expansion comes out with new E-specs. Thinking about it now that sorta aligns with what they did with the transition from HoT to PoF, gutting a bunch of builds in preparation for new E-specs, and more reason to grab their next expansion.

[c u again.3267]

"the big patch" made all of my friends quit, the top250 is now what 1500 rating? since february even through people sitting in home due to corona we've been hard bleeding players. it's about time you revert that garbage. your experimant is an utter failure, the biggest one in this game's history, CMC. You are not the saviour, you're a failure.

[dtox.8397]

I remember before Feb patch there was a massive amount of threads complaining about damage (100-0 meta). Even now the complaints are not that much regarding the lack of damage dmg, but rather what was left unfinished/broken - like Holo nades and such. To me what made/makes ppl quit is the unfinished balance. It started out good for a patch that big, then they didnt bother fixing stuff afterwards.