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Why no hybrids?


DaVid Darksoul.4985

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Why do we see no hybrids such as a norn/charr or asuran/human? That would be awesome to have, although sylvaria would not be included since they don't reproduce sexually. It would be solely cosmetic since all races and classes have the same base stats, with the possibility of different elites. I also would really love to have split classes such as GW1 had, my toon was necro/ele, very strong. Different base stats system such as used by D&D games could also be applied to hybrids maybe? Would be a way to break the mundane. Sylvaria maybe could be included if a way to merge souls to create a lifeform was invented. Just rambling thoughts here ojn making GW2 more interesting.

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i know it's fantasy and it's a game -- but if i remember my biology correctly you need to have the same amount of chromosomes (2 haploids) and your genetic material has to be compatible -- amount other things -- to properly produce an offspring and even if you manage to produce an offspring inter-species, it's most likely sterile and unable to reproduce on it's own and thus ending it's lineage before it even started.

that said, the closest species in GW2, atleast biologically, would probably be Norn and Human (basing it purely on their physiology, appearance, etc.) kinda like how you have a Lion + Tiger = Liger hybrid (but again, it's incapable of reproducing)


that said throwing all the science away, it'll probably look really weird to have an asura + human.... and a charr + human or norn would probably look like FF14's Hrothgar

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We don't see them, because, according to devs, mixed race pairings do not produce offspring. Might have something to do with small things like Sylvari being plants, and Humans not being native to tyria, but a race that was brought there from some other world.

@Astyrah.4015 said:that said, the closest species in GW2, atleast biologically, would probably be Norn and Human (basing it purely on their physiology, appearance, etc.)Ironically, of the 5 player races, Humans are the only one (as far as we know) that isn't native to this world, and as such they are probably much, much further biologically from Norn than the Charr, Asura and even Sylvari.

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Biology is a fickle thing.

There needs to be quite a lot in common genetically for mixed race offspring to exist.

That said, this lack of suitable offspring doesn't seem to stop mixed race relationships from forming, notably with Braham and Rox.

Whether or not this particular aspect is intentional design of making all the races within Tyria non-compatible with one another (Though, there's a wonder about jotunn/kodan/norn as they might actually be related) due to going in depth into their biology or whether this is just a way to not have to deal with trying to design suitable hybrid races for each functional pairing.

Of course, genetic incompatibility doesn't necessarily stop the ability for mixed races to occur. Asuran magitech could feasibly attain the ability to fuse DNA from multiple species while bypassing the aspects of incompatibility. Such a device could be borne of a particular asura that is in a relationship with a member of a different race and wishes to have a child together...

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@Astyrah.4015 said:i know it's fantasy and it's a game -- but if i remember my biology correctly you need to have the same amount of chromosomes (2 haploids) and your genetic material has to be compatible -- amount other things -- to properly produce an offspring and even if you manage to produce an offspring inter-species, it's most likely sterile and unable to reproduce on it's own and thus ending it's lineage before it even started.

that said, the closest species in GW2, atleast biologically, would probably be Norn and Human (basing it purely on their physiology, appearance, etc.) kinda like how you have a Lion + Tiger = Liger hybrid (but again, it's incapable of reproducing)


that said throwing all the science away, it'll probably look really weird to have an asura + human.... and a charr + human or norn would probably look like FF14's Hrothgar

then there is the practical issue, development cost

that is potentially a 20x increase in the amount of animations, armors, voice actors, etc.even if you reuse/duplicate a lot and manage to cut that down to 2x it is still a significant increase

or you can maintain the same cost but have sloppier results for everything, game assets aren't just going to magically come into existence

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For the lore side, it would be impossible as only animals that are similar enough to each other can even produce offspring but those offspring are almost always sterile. One of the exceptions to this is wolf x dog hybrids, but that's because domestic dogs are a subspecies of wolves so they're genetically similar enough to produce viable offspring. However wolf x fox or dog x fox is impossible because while everyone involved is in the canidae family, they are too genetically separate to produce offspring, let alone offspring that are able to reproduce themselves. (You also have to have the male be the smaller of the two if there's any notable size difference, otherwise there's a good chance that the female and/or offspring will die during the birthing process as the fetus will be too large)

Charr, norn, and asura are the only playable races that evolved on Tyria yet they're very much different species, not even in the same family. Sylvari are new and magical and don't reproduce sexually, period. Humans evolved on a different planet thus cannot be related to any other species.

Even if you involved magic (since this is Tyria) it would need to override DNA and chromosomes and keep a pregnancy viable to full term, and do so without Full Metal Alchemist-ing the fetus. How much of this magic could be produced and be accessible to anyone and everyone who wanted to have a hybrid baby?

Now for the development side, there's the added design work, assets, and voice actors, among other things. With the exception of norn and humans, every other combination has drastic differences. It's not like something such as D&D where you can just slim/bulk up the hybrid, alter their height, and change their skin colour and call it a day. It would take a lot of time and effort to come up with hybrid designs that would be acceptable internally, which says nothing about whether players would like the designs or not. And they'd have to come up with 20 hybrid designs so no race was left out. If they can't/won't come up with a single new player race, why could/would they make 20?

Something like hybrids would need to be designed for in mind from the ground up. Or at the very least, design the game so new playable races would be easy to add, something which is not the case with GW2 or the GW2 engine.

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I know people are talking about biology and about what the developers stated however, let us consider asuran science.There exists a hybrid already in Metrica province named IndriThe wiki does not include the little readables you find in the area you fight her. She used Ploint's Norn growth hormone on herself to become a massive asura. I mean that is technically gene therapy but also technically almost a hybrid!

Asura could potentially create hybrids using this method. But what benefit would that have for developers to go to the trouble of offering ---

What if, Asura must do this to help the races adapt to some harsh environment?

But yeah still, I don't see this happening because they would have to design a whole infrastructure to implement it, and new art.

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Hybrids in Tyria tend to either be horrific monsters or products of sloppy science like the Asura and Skritt who have swapped bodies after the Thaumanova Reactor incident.

In the past, devs have confirmed that the various races can't reproduce with each other, but there are a number of them in the game who have cross-species relationships and who have adopted children. Considering how many disasters hit Tyria every year, it's probably for the best that adoption is the primary method of obtaining a kid for interspecies couples.

So many orphans. So many.

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@"Anchoku.8142" said:Think it might be easier for the developers to create disguise tonic recipes for each species. That way, those of inferior intellect can pretend to be Asura. At least, until they open their mouth to try to say something intelligent.

But the only thing you need to say to pretend to be an intelligent Asura is "excelsior". :p

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From what I know it's as simple as genetic incompatibility within the lore.There is nothing in theory preventing mixed race relationships but none of the races can interbreed and produce hybrid offspring.

Sylvari despite taking the form of Humans are vastly different in biology, their skin is like bark, their blood like golden sap and even though they can and do enjoy doing horizontal tango with one another they completely lack any and all reproductive capability.All Sylvari are born from the Pale Tree.. which does make them technically all siblings.. but we'll not get into that lol

The most common mix race pairing I often see is people saying Human and Norn because Norn are just giant humans pretty much.This is very very wrong though, Humans and Norn are not related in any way shape or form.The Norn have far more in common with the Kodan if anything and some lore does speculate that the Norn may actually be a separate evolutionary line of the Kodan and they may share a common ancestry.. much like Homo sapiens and Neanderthals did.(and yes we'll have to deal with kitten sapiens being a thing now because of the profanity filter lmao)

Humans on the other hand.. well to put it bluntly, we're Aliens in this world.Others have said it here too and they are correct, Humans are not native to Tyria and some people tend to forget that sometimes.We don't know where Humans came from or why they came to Tyria, all we know is that they apparently came from the mists and it was the Human Gods who brought/sent them here.There are some confusing parts involving Canthan lore as well but it's generally accepted that all Humans are not native to Tyria.. so yeah Humans not being able to interbreed with Norn despite some physical similarities does make perfect sense.

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@"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:Why do we see no hybrids such as a norn/charr or asuran/human? That would be awesome to have, although sylvaria would not be included since they don't reproduce sexually. It would be solely cosmetic since all races and classes have the same base stats, with the possibility of different elites. I also would really love to have split classes such as GW1 had, my toon was necro/ele, very strong. Different base stats system such as used by D&D games could also be applied to hybrids maybe? Would be a way to break the mundane. Sylvaria maybe could be included if a way to merge souls to create a lifeform was invented. Just rambling thoughts here ojn making GW2 more interesting.

http://archive.is/9r1NG

"Jeff says that Inter-species hybridization is not plausible, there are no half-norn, half-charr, half-sylvari and so on."

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One point of confusion is that players think Humans and Norn are similar because of appearance. However its strongly suggested in game that the Norn are closer to Kodan and their bestial forms might be their original appearance, especially that of Bear.

Its said that Norn "stopped being bears" (paraphrased) by the Kodan, though they viewed it as a de-evolution.

Presumably they ended up with a Human-like appearance for the same reasons Human evolved to look the way they do in real life, because its an optimal form for the Norn whose hunting-based culture depends entirely on them being avid toolmakers. Humans and Norn even could've evolved down the same path visually despite being completely different biologically and from separate worlds.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution

Though the Charr managed to become industrialised with paws so YMMV.

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While it wasn't possible when the game started, it's TECHNICALLY possible now. The skyscale creation proved that if you get just the right things in the presence of just the right amount of magic (ie.: One kitten-load of), you can create something new based off of whatever the magic has to template off of. So a couple of, say, a charr and a human being together near enough magic could 'create' the baby in that way. However, that would require a LOT of research and work.

Far, FAR simpler would be for someone to create a more advanced transformation potion and use that to turn the male of the two into the same species as the female. The child would be the mom's species, but still influenced by the father's attributes. In a M Charr/ F Human pair, the kid would be human but their hair might be the color of the charr's mane and they may be a bit sharp of tooth. You'd never notice that they're not baseline human from just meeting them on the street, though, so you could be walking past hybrids all the time and not know.

(Also worthy of note is the fact that the potion idea would allow female/female to have a kid. Or even sylvari/non-sylvari.)

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