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Jormag is plotting to take down primordus and absorb its magic to have no weakness


The Ace.9105

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@Stephen.6312 said:

@Vekale.7890 said:Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

thanks, i missed that

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@Stephen.6312 said:

@Vekale.7890 said:Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

DOesn't that just say the shards were from the battle, rather than the liquid veins?

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Vekale.7890 said:Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

DOesn't that just say the shards were from the battle, rather than the liquid veins?

Yeah, it does. I probably misread castlemaniac's comment.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Vekale.7890" said:Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

DOesn't that just say the shards were from the battle, rather than the liquid veins?

Correct, the achievement is about the shards.

The blood's origin is left unanswered - at least directly - for why it is there. But the dialogue in the first instance implies that the blood froze into what ANet in the Guild Chat stream called "torment ice" (likely referencing how it's a reskin of the rock formations made for the Mouth of Torment), and that to gain power Jormag went to the location to thaw and consume their own blood. But it also gets implied that the Dominion is bleeding Jormag to power the Frost Legion conversion (why it would freeze then unfreeze is unclear though).

Regardless of that though, I am doubtful that the blood has been there for 10,000 years - for two reasons 1) the bridge was built going to the frozen blood that Jormag drew in; odd for the norn to build a bridge leading into a wall; 2) there's a lot of foliage in the norther half, which was frozen over, implying that the blood is relatively recent; or at least, not since the previous dragonrise several thousand years ago. Which makes me think Jormag began bleeding because of the actions of Season 3, or at least the blood in the area began flowing out after Jormag went into ice - whether they got the injuries from S3, Asgeir, or Primordus a 3,000-10,000 years ago is harder to ascertain. After all, Kralkatorrik was still bleeding when he woke up from a battle during the previous dragonrise, so it wouldn't be odd if Jormag was too.

Also weird that Jormag's shards would still be there, too. Since dragon's blood and shards would be highly magically potent, seems unreasonable that they'd remain.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

It is more that Jormag's method to preserve Tyria is to turn everything into Ice or at least freeze everything with ice. Like preserving something in a block of Ice so it never ages and remain the same forever.

This is the thing we have to keep in mind with Elder Dragons, their reason and actions can be either good intentions or bad intentions but their method are just extreme to a point it harms Tyria. In Jormag case it is to "preserve" Tyria in a giant block of Ice so everything is frozen because in Jormag's view "Ice Protects" the people trapped in it. A world where everyone is in a Icy prison for their own protection and preservation.

On topic:

I have a feeling that the conflict we are about to see maybe a Stone Summit versus Frost Legion battle.

The Commander and his/her allies are either going to be a third faction in this war or ally themselves with Jormag due to circumstances withing a temporary alliance until Primordus is defeated then we go back to fighting each other.

This.

Jormag's plan is basically https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Infinite_Tsukuyomi but with ice instead of illusion.

The franchise has always been a long string of pop culture references even since GW1, and the game itself has drawn from this series alot; as seen in the various guild logos, skill designs and many other elements (like Thief headbands), the devs are fans of it.

In recent years they're trying to be more original and do less pop culture, but its still very much there.

Jormag wants to create a frozen dreamland where it can siphon magic from Tyria forever, an end to the cycle. People would stop dying, lands would stop being destroyed, everything would just be frozen and eternal, just like Jormag itself.

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@"Kalythsu.8350" said:Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

To be honest I don't think Jormag really "fears" anything. I think the "threat on the horizon" could be Primordus, or something else entirely, but I think Jormag will be the one to attract its attention/provoke it. Jormag never corrupts anything without it giving in, but that doesn't mean it doesn't eliminate the other choices and trick its victim into thinking it's being a savior.

I think Jormag will be the one to strike the first blow here. And Aurene mentioned that Jormag was moving through Tyria using the mists but didn't seem to understand why. Perhaps it's already provoking Primordus.

I wondered why in another thread Jormag would do this and move from its current spot, but it makes sense if the destination is just to provoke Primo, and potentially lure it back to us who (as the commander's perspective) will be non-the-wiser and just assume that Primordus is making a move. So, less about fear of Primordus awakening and more faking fear entrapping us in an alliance and eliminating her weakness. This seems like a sneaky way to get us involved and by extension Aurene.

The bigger question is what will happen as a result. Will we kill Primordus? Will they kill each other? Will we just kill Jormag? Would Aurene survive absorbing both magics if they were to both die? If they both were to die how much time would we have to find replacements?

It's also possible that we could take a step back, be side-tracked to Cantha as Jormag and Primordus wage war on each other, knowing that we need to be prepared.

(Another possibility is that Jormag and Primordus are already secretly aligned and playing a game against us and Aurene, and the blue and red in the logo isn't so much a clashing as much as it is a blending/pairing representing a truce/alliance.)

After all, we know Primordus and Jormag are each other's weaknesses, but do we know why? What happens if one dies? Won't another dragon or all other dragons potentially absorb whatever trait causes them to be their weakness? So by eliminating this ONE elder dragon, aren't you potentially creating the potential for more to exploit you?

And in terms of cycles, Tyria would be forced into a heating/thawing cycle that balances itself out with neither dragon really having to go anywhere near each other.

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@Bast.7253 said:

@"Kalythsu.8350" said:Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

To be honest I don't think Jormag really "fears" anything. I think the "threat on the horizon" could be Primordus, or something else entirely, but I think Jormag will be the one to attract its attention/provoke it. Jormag never corrupts anything without it giving in, but that doesn't mean it doesn't eliminate the other choices and trick its victim into thinking it's being a savior.

I think Jormag will be the one to strike the first blow here. And Aurene mentioned that Jormag was moving through Tyria using the mists but didn't seem to understand why. Perhaps it's already provoking Primordus.

I wondered why in another thread Jormag would do this and move from its current spot, but it makes sense if the destination is just to provoke Primo, and potentially lure it back to us who (as the commander's perspective) will be non-the-wiser and just assume that Primordus is making a move. So, less about fear of Primordus awakening and more faking fear entrapping us in an alliance and eliminating her weakness. This seems like a sneaky way to get us involved and by extension Aurene.

The bigger question is what will happen as a result. Will we kill Primordus? Will they kill each other? Will we just kill Jormag? Would Aurene survive absorbing both magics if they were to both die? If they both were to die how much time would we have to find replacements?

It's also possible that we could take a step back, be side-tracked to Cantha as Jormag and Primordus wage war on each other, knowing that we need to be prepared.

(Another possibility is that Jormag and Primordus are already secretly aligned and playing a game against us and Aurene, and the blue and red in the logo isn't so much a clashing as much as it is a blending/pairing representing a truce/alliance.)

After all, we know Primordus and Jormag are each other's weaknesses, but do we know why? What happens if one dies? Won't another dragon or all other dragons potentially absorb whatever trait causes them to be their weakness? So by eliminating this ONE elder dragon, aren't you potentially creating the potential for more to exploit you?

And in terms of cycles, Tyria would be forced into a heating/thawing cycle that balances itself out with neither dragon really having to go anywhere near each other.

When Jormag absorbs primordus it's left without weaknesses and can at any point in time just turn become full Zhaitan on everybody.

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I feel we are all underestimating Primordus. Remember even when he was asleep he was starting his take over by releasing the Destroyers in the depths of Tyria in gw1. We have no idea how long he was active before the gw1 players got involved. We know that the transformation of the Dwarves was a way to quell the spread. In gw2 while Jormag and Kralk had areas they controlled Primordus was able to send his minions as far south as The Desert Highlands. We know from lore there is a vast tunnel network under Tyria. I would not be surprised if in EOD we fight them at some point. I think that while Jormag is more intelligent Primordus has the advantage of numbers. I don't think it will be tricked and killed so easily. Remember we have seen his Champion Megadesroyer in Mount Malestrom and the fire islands. Im just saying don't count out him out yet

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@"Kalythsu.8350" said:The wait is long. I want to know who Jormag's enemy is. I think Primordus but we don't really know if it's him or not.

I was also suspicious and hesitant to place an opinion on this, but then I found out about that Shards of Jormag achievement whose description goes like "Long ago, Primordus struck Jormag in battle and littered the Drizzlewood Coast in shards." That at least mostly confirms Primordus is Jormag's enemy, right?

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@Morena.4567 said:

@"Kalythsu.8350" said:The wait is long. I want to know who Jormag's enemy is. I think Primordus but we don't really know if it's him or not.

I was also suspicious and hesitant to place an opinion on this, but then I found out about that Shards of Jormag achievement whose description goes like "Long ago, Primordus struck Jormag in battle and littered the Drizzlewood Coast in shards." That at least mostly confirms Primordus is Jormag's enemy, right?

Yes, I saw that too. :) Let's say it's another proof that Jormag's enemy could be Primordius.

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@Morena.4567 said:

@"Kalythsu.8350" said:The wait is long. I want to know who Jormag's enemy is. I think Primordus but we don't really know if it's him or not.

I was also suspicious and hesitant to place an opinion on this, but then I found out about that Shards of Jormag achievement whose description goes like "Long ago, Primordus struck Jormag in battle and littered the Drizzlewood Coast in shards." That at least mostly confirms Primordus is Jormag's enemy, right?

It's more of evidence to say "Primordus' enemy is Jormag", but just because Primordus attacked Jormag doesn't mean Jormag wants revenge or views Primordus as an enemy.

Besides, for all the mystery about this "threat on the horizon", I really hope that it's something more than just Primordus because its Jormag's opposite as firmly established in Season 3. I mean, that's not a mystery, we've known about it for a few years now. So why treat it as such?

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I still don't understand why everyone assumes that killing Primordus means that Jormag is free from that weakness? Why wouldn't Jormag just be vulnerable to the multiple other dragons that absorb his domains when he gets defeated?

Then again I don't understand how Mordremoth was able to presumably use death magic from Zhaitan given that they were opposites. You'd think that absorbing it would be more harmful than beneficial but none of this really seems to make a ton of sense.

I mean all that with the unstable abomination and all. You'd think similar would happen to Jormag too if it absorbed something from Primordus.

I don't know, at the very least it doesn't seem like Jormag would be free from that vulnerability and it's not really something we've seen before because none of the other dragons assaulted Mordremoth with Death magic.

I know a lot of people don't want to see it because they're afraid of Aurene becoming a deux ex dragon again, but I'd really like to know/see other spectrums of Aurene's magic. So far all it seems like all we've really seen is presumably plant and crystal. (Maybe mind? Or was that just because of her being a crystal dragon?) Have we ever seen anything involving Zhaitain's magic?

It feels like she could play a more significant role in the franchise without necessarily impacting the player character, like cleansing Orr or rebranding/healing the current brand or cleansing/healing some of the unchained risen in Orr. Or even branding Taimi as a way of freeing her from her condition.

I'd really hope for a future living season that isn't some strictly linear story like Icebrood has been that allows the team to dive into plots like this, Malyck, and the numerous others sitting on the shelf. Something that allows us to see an actual LIVING world that's changing, (even if it's new maps in familiar regions).

For that matter they could, at some point, create Visions of the Past around them but it seems Visions will be yet another feature that quickly get scrapped and only exist in this season to introduce us to the next episodes. So many devs and they always seem like there is so little content, but I guess for free content there can't be too high of expectations.

Anyway, I'd have to agree with Konig about the threat on the horizon being more than Primordus. I originally anticipated it being more than just another elder dragon in general. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it WAS Primordus in the end and he was provoked by Jormag in the first place.

I had hopes that the threat would be something more sinister and alien, perhaps something that was stirred from the recent activity in the mists. Demons, gods, whatever. Some foreign power that we haven't really experienced. But I don't think that's within their scope of the franchise and may not be until the dragons are dealt with. I personally enjoy the elder dragons and the mystery behind them but I can definitely see the appeal in branching out and exploring other things. The voice in Deepstone, the demons in Bastion, some origin story about some of the original races like the Seers/Mursaat, the Obelisks of the Krait, etc.

So much story in this game and it feels like, at least at the current pace and how linear and focused this saga has been alone, we'll probably never explore it.

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@Bast.7253 said:I still don't understand why everyone assumes that killing Primordus means that Jormag is free from that weakness? Why wouldn't Jormag just be vulnerable to the multiple other dragons that absorb his domains when he gets defeated?

Then again I don't understand how Mordremoth was able to presumably use death magic from Zhaitan given that they were opposites. You'd think that absorbing it would be more harmful than beneficial but none of this really seems to make a ton of sense.

I mean all that with the unstable abomination and all. You'd think similar would happen to Jormag too if it absorbed something from Primordus.

I don't know, at the very least it doesn't seem like Jormag would be free from that vulnerability and it's not really something we've seen before because none of the other dragons assaulted Mordremoth with Death magic.

I know a lot of people don't want to see it because they're afraid of Aurene becoming a deux ex dragon again, but I'd really like to know/see other spectrums of Aurene's magic. So far all it seems like all we've really seen is presumably plant and crystal. (Maybe mind? Or was that just because of her being a crystal dragon?) Have we ever seen anything involving Zhaitain's magic?

It feels like she could play a more significant role in the franchise without necessarily impacting the player character, like cleansing Orr or rebranding/healing the current brand or cleansing/healing some of the unchained risen in Orr. Or even branding Taimi as a way of freeing her from her condition.

I'd really hope for a future living season that isn't some strictly linear story like Icebrood has been that allows the team to dive into plots like this, Malyck, and the numerous others sitting on the shelf. Something that allows us to see an actual LIVING world that's changing, (even if it's new maps in familiar regions).

For that matter they could, at some point, create Visions of the Past around them but it seems Visions will be yet another feature that quickly get scrapped and only exist in this season to introduce us to the next episodes. So many devs and they always seem like there is so little content, but I guess for free content there can't be too high of expectations.

Anyway, I'd have to agree with Konig about the threat on the horizon being more than Primordus. I originally anticipated it being more than just another elder dragon in general. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it WAS Primordus in the end and he was provoked by Jormag in the first place.

I had hopes that the threat would be something more sinister and alien, perhaps something that was stirred from the recent activity in the mists. Demons, gods, whatever. Some foreign power that we haven't really experienced. But I don't think that's within their scope of the franchise and may not be until the dragons are dealt with. I personally enjoy the elder dragons and the mystery behind them but I can definitely see the appeal in branching out and exploring other things. The voice in Deepstone, the demons in Bastion, some origin story about some of the original races like the Seers/Mursaat, the Obelisks of the Krait, etc.

So much story in this game and it feels like, at least at the current pace and how linear and focused this saga has been alone, we'll probably never explore it.

I agree. I said earlier that the idea of killing Primordus is not Jormags end game. Bangar wanted world domination. He sought out Jormag for that reason. Unlike the other dragons Jormag has been playing the waiting game. He convinced the norm to move south and has stayed in the Far Shiverpeaks and waited 150 years there without seemingly any goal. His minions are not mindless drones nor does he spread his army. My thinking is that he is looking inward.

The remaining dwarfs of the stone summit are still worshipping Primordus. There numbers seems actually substantial. Plus the Destroyers are creatures of stone and fire. If it's a numbers game I think he's still outnumbered.

I think Jormag is seeing the winds of the world have changed since the last awakening. Three of his brethren have been killed. Balthazar was able to weaken him to the point where he needed to slumber for 3 years. He's learning from there failure. Zhaitan was too ambitious and flooded the world with undead. Mordremouth used the death magic he absorbed and built his army up too quickly drawing the attention of the world where he was Dead quickly. Kralkatorik fled south to be away from the others but also used the death magic and damaged portions of the mists with his God magic.

I'm thinking that Jormag found some thing that could end the cycle of sleep. He's enjoying being awake and is looking for a way to stay that way. We know he gained some of the God powers to travel thru the mists and death magic thru the abomination.

We don't know what he is looking for but I think it will take us into the depths of Tyria and stop him from retrieving this object that can break the cycle. I think that the season will end with his death and news that Primordus is awake and moving away from the Fire islands and heading to Cantha. Dragon's Watch can't allow that and that draws us to Cantha. End of dragons will have us face both the dsd and Primordus only for us to deal with a new threat in the form of Menzies or Urgoz(maybe he was a corrupted pale tree)or Kanaxai and the Nightmare Horde.

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