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the grind for mounts needs to be toned down


KAipurge.2147

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@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

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@scerevisiae.1972 said:

@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

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@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

There was only one founder associated with Guild Wars 2 since before launch, Mike O'Brien, and he left less than a year ago (after all other Mounts).So, except for Skimmer underwater, all mount acquisitions are sans 'grind', if this is an accurate assessment.

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@Nubarus.9268 said:

@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

there's heaps of pay2win.

all the account upgrades, extra bag slots, bank slots, trading/crafting hubs, unbreakable gathering tools with glyphs, permanent bank access & teleports, numerous boosters, etc etc, the list goes on.

it's not reasonably possible to buy all that with gold because of the massive time investment involved and the deliberately huge tax on gold->gems/gems ->gold conversions.

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@scerevisiae.1972 said:

@"KAipurge.2147" said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

there's heaps of pay2win.

all the account upgrades, extra bag slots, bank slots, trading/crafting hubs, unbreakable gathering tools with glyphs, permanent bank access & teleports, numerous boosters, etc etc, the list goes on.

it's not reasonably possible to buy all that with gold because of the massive time investment involved and the deliberately huge tax on gold->gems/gems ->gold conversions.

i'd argue these are "pay-for-convenience". in the same way path of exile stash tabs, the various slots in warframe and final fantasy 14's extra retainers are there as value added/microtransactions for your convenience.

you have that thing called "World vs. World" (rook icon) on your menu bar right? click on it and then click on "Obsidian Sanctum" and viola, instant teleport to a room with a bank + trading post + merchants. need to craft? walk a few steps to the portal behind you to instantly travel to Lion's Arch.

gathering glyphs can be bought for gold directly without gems. same with permanent bank access and permanent hairstyle kits. all the boosters are basically thrown at you for free via birthday gifts and when leveling alts (warframe sells boosters too btw!). the game literally throws black lion keys at you every week for the level 10 story -- if you take it past level 30 and 60 story, you get more keys each time (without a weekly limit)

-number levels- or max level boosts? (we don't have story skip potions/scrolls btw) wow and ff14 would like to say hi :)

so no, GW2 is very very far from pay to win... pay for convenience? yes, maybe. -- if they start selling legendaries on the gemstore, then that's the time gw2 approaches pay-to-win territory but even then it's not even close.

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@scerevisiae.1972 said:

@"KAipurge.2147" said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

there's heaps of pay2win.

all the account upgrades, extra bag slots, bank slots, trading/crafting hubs, unbreakable gathering tools with glyphs, permanent bank access & teleports, numerous boosters, etc etc, the list goes on.

it's not reasonably possible to buy all that with gold because of the massive time investment involved and the deliberately huge tax on gold->gems/gems ->gold conversions.

All that is not helping you win anything. You do not become stronger or better than others so it's not pay to win at all. On top of all this you can get all that with game gold. I never use real money in the gems store and only buy stuff when it is on sale. So no, still do not see all this so called pay to win arguement in any way or form. I got a bank full of boosters, teleports and all the etc etc you talk about and never bought a single one in the store. All of it was given for free in daily chests and birthday presents. If you need a huge time investment to obtain game gold you are doing something wrong. I got plenty of gold and never did a gold farm so far like RIBA or Volatile magic farming. I just play the game, do my daily chests and salvage all my loot. Use the mats I need and sell the rest on the player market. The only "farm" I do is kill 10 Krait a day to get a key and every now and then do the dive master thing.

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@Excursion.9752 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)

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@"Druitt.7629" said:I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

For collections: you can always check the wiki to see what you need to do/where you need to go/what you need to take with you (if relevant).

Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

If all the "grind" that various people have complained about, not just you, in these forums, the game would be:Purchase game.Get everything immediately upon entering the game.The end.

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@Hesione.9412 said:

@"Druitt.7629" said:I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

They actually are for a lot of group content (Dragonfall meta in particular), in which not having a flying mount makes you unable to get to certain bosses by the time they're killed without having to camp each one for hours before the boss/meta resets. Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

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I've been "grinding" for the skyscale this last week. I'm on the last collection now.I heard so many people say it was this awful grind.It's been nothing but fun so far, and haven't taken that long.I'm at 200 mats on one season 4 currency and about 100 in the rest of them, won't take to long to get it done.Sure I've been playing a lot too though, but even if you play just a bit everyday it's still not that hard to get done.

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@scerevisiae.1972 said:

@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

there's heaps of pay2win.

all the account upgrades, extra bag slots, bank slots, trading/crafting hubs, unbreakable gathering tools with glyphs, permanent bank access & teleports, numerous boosters, etc etc, the list goes on.

it's not reasonably possible to buy all that with gold because of the massive time investment involved and the deliberately huge tax on gold->gems/gems ->gold conversions.

If making the progress of earning gold more convinient is pay2win in your eyes, then why isn't your argument centered around gem>gold conversion? Buying QoL items will usually just LOSE you gold (compared to using those gem to turn into gold instead). It's just there to make the game more convinient.But none of those will give you an advantage in vertical progression. What exactly are you winning?How can you win over others when getting best in slot gear is easily available to all players?

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Mounts should stay as they are. They are earned as a rite of passage. You just play the game and get them. They only feel grindy when you expect to earn one in a day instead of knowing it will be a challenge in time and/or gold. Gold=Time. Relax and enjoy the main goal of GW2, exploration and fights.

When the Ascended gear was first introduced, it sapped a lot of the fun out of the game for me as I struggled to earn the mats. When I stopped forcing it and enjoyed the game, the next thing I knew I had what I needed without feeling pressured.

Pay2Win is when you can buy items that make your toon stronger. Gems -> Gold is the closest thing we have to that but the expense is sorta high for the casual player. Even so, getting gold faster mostly lets you get gear faster. There are very few items that can be bought with gold that make your character stronger. The only one thatcomes to mind is the variety of specialized infusions that include a stat.

The closest items for an 'advantage' are some of the glyphs that give SIGNIFICANT boosts to farming drops. (hint: check out Tailor, Leather, and Alchemy) The boost is only extra income.

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@Poormany.4507 said:

@"Druitt.7629" said:I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

They actually are for a lot of group content (Dragonfall meta in particular), in which not having a flying mount makes you unable to get to certain bosses by the time they're killed without having to camp each one for hours before the boss/meta resets. Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

People who want to repeatedly (not necessarily during one session!) play a meta that goes for over an hour each time haven't got the time to work towards flying mounts, particularly the skyscale? There are skyscales available to borrow on the map.

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@Hesione.9412 said:

@"Druitt.7629" said:I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

They actually are for a lot of group content (Dragonfall meta in particular), in which not having a flying mount makes you unable to get to certain bosses by the time they're killed without having to camp each one for hours before the boss/meta resets. Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

People who want to repeatedly (not necessarily during one session!) play a meta that goes for over an hour each time haven't got the time to work towards flying mounts, particularly the skyscale? There are skyscales available to borrow on the map.

This. The only map I would consider needs a skyscale so far is in the Dragonfall meta, but you can unlock the skyscale rentals available at several spots on the map on each character by completing a few steps of the map story. A skyscale is convenient in the south Drizzlewood cache keeper runs, but not necessary since you can use the united legions waystations to port to different places immediately on the map.

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@Poormany.4507 said:Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

oh that huge grind of buying 5 of each currency each day in dragonfall that takes days repeating the same content.it's not the achievement that is a grind, it is you who makes it a grind. i simply didn't and still had my skyscale pretty fast, just as all the other mounts.

even if you really only do the dragonfall purchases that is 50 days, less than 2 months. for the bare minimum and starting at literal zero (which i bet you don't as you had to at least do story and surely got some currencies) you need less than 2 months. anything more and you drastically reduce that, one heart? down to 1 month. maybe an event or two, just the little ones, those that are done fast. farm a node additionally and oh it is only a couple of days.

the only stupid grindy things are map-skipping achievements (skyscale flight) or search achievements with no hint (skyscale eggs) - those are just a wiki fiesta and no fun at all.

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What I don't like about these kind of grinds in general is that it's ALL about time-investment. That is the only aspect that is required to get something, no skill at all is needed especially when it comes to unlocking the mounts.

Sure, grinding is a big part of any MMORPG but that doesn't mean any sort of skill should be ignored. If you are a skilled player, most MMOs reward you for that and as a result reduce the grind. Being able to farm UW for ectos back in the good old GW1 days required skill and the better you knew your build and what, when and how to pull rewarded you - or killed you if you lacked this knowledge.

The way GW2 handles such things is basically; You need 250x of each map currencies but we will only allow you to get X of each per day. Or collect these 30 things across the whole map, wait 2 hours and repeat a few times. The result is that players are forced to log in over the next few days or even weeks and that's it. No skill at all is required, the only goal is to get people to log in on a daily base. Same with daily crafting materials, the purpose is to get people into that daily routine - which almost feels like a job if we're honest.

It's a bit sad to see that skill is mostly irrelevant and only the time you spend doing something has actual value.

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@Pii.8574 said:What I don't like about these kind of grinds in general is that it's ALL about time-investment. That is the only aspect that is required to get something, no skill at all is needed especially when it comes to unlocking the mounts.

Sure, grinding is a big part of any MMORPG but that doesn't mean any sort of skill should be ignored. If you are a skilled player, most MMOs reward you for that and as a result reduce the grind. Being able to farm UW for ectos back in the good old GW1 days required skill and the better you knew your build and what, when and how to pull rewarded you - or killed you if you lacked this knowledge.

The way GW2 handles such things is basically; You need 250x of each map currencies but we will only allow you to get X of each per day. Or collect these 30 things across the whole map, wait 2 hours and repeat a few times. The result is that players are forced to log in over the next few days or even weeks and that's it. No skill at all is required, the only goal is to get people to log in on a daily base. Same with daily crafting materials, the purpose is to get people into that daily routine - which almost feels like a job if we're honest.

It's a bit sad to see that skill is mostly irrelevant and only the time you spend doing something has actual value.

Needing map currencies is not a secret, if you have played through all the previous content before even starting the skyscale collection you should have been aware of this and start collecting the map currencies as you progress through the story you can casually collect it all. But sure, if you don't and then finally get to the saddle part and need to collect 6 stacks total you create this so called grind all on your accord. I guess people who skip skip through everything to get to the Skyscale run into this wall and then moan about how grindy this game is........

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Griffon and Skyscale are meant to be end game reward missions. The roller beetle was fast and easy to get. So fast and easy that you could do it in an afternoon if you got the timing in the metas right anyway. To me, it sounds like people complaining about playing a game. That is the game. Nope, I sorta like it how it is. As for the new mastery, that took very very little time, and all I did was stack buffs and kill creatures with high bonus experience.

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@scerevisiae.1972 said:

@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Ncsoft the parent company that owns Anet are very big on mobile gaming, where the design is grind or pay money to avoid said grind.. I'm betting a lot of these mechanics were added on behest of Ncsoft.

@Nubarus.9268 said:

@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.Stash and Bag space... Laugh but it does make you better over time..
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@sorudo.9054 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)Another Legendary Credit Card thread basically. If you put half the effort in into getting the skyscale as you did in this thread you would have had it by now. You're basically asking to buy an achievement and that is a slippery slope if you ever do get your wish.
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@Dante.1508 said:

@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Ncsoft the parent company that owns Anet are very big on mobile gaming, where the design is grind or pay money to avoid said grind.. I'm betting a lot of these mechanics were added on behest of Ncsoft.

@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.Stash and Bag space... Laugh but it does make you better over time..

Bag space is not pay2win and yes I am still laughing about how you think that it makes you a better player over time. I always carry salvage packs with me and salvage/deposit as I go along. So having less bag space made me better at managing my storage space over time. So far I have not had to add another bag to any of my characters though. By your logic someone who uses game gold to buy size 20 bags is paying to win or what?

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