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How many Jormag are there?


Greattyphoon.3120

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@"Greattyphoon.3120" said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

As was already explained twice, "they" is also the gender neutral pronoun for third person singular, it is used instead of "he/she" to signal the gender of the subject is unknown to the speaker.

Example:"Did you read what that guy just wrote in map chat??""Why are you assuming gender? It could be a woman, you don't know that.""Okay. So, did you read what they just wrote?"

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@Greattyphoon.3120 said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

Yes, there is just one Jormag. They is often used in English to refer to people without distinguishing between genders (for example when you don't know what gender the person you are referring to may be). So as an example, I would say over the internet about someone who's gender I don't know, they like GW2, instead of he/she likes GW2.

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@Atomos.7593 said:

@"Greattyphoon.3120" said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

Yes, there is just one Jormag. They is often used in English to refer to people without distinguishing between genders (for example when you don't know what gender the person you are referring to may be). So as an example, I would say over the internet about someone who's gender I don't know, they like GW2, instead of he/she likes GW2.

Ah okay I think I might understand. When I learned English, I was told "they" is always plural, and neutral singular was "it". But thank you for the explanation. Why not use "it" since Jormag is a dragon is also confusing to me. But thank you.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Greattyphoon.3120" said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

As was already explained twice, "they" is also the gender neutral pronoun for third person
singular
, it is used instead of "he/she" to signal the gender of the subject is unknown to the speaker.

Example:"Did you read what that guy just wrote in map chat??""Why are you assuming gender? It could be a woman, you don't know that.""Okay. So, did you read what
they
just wrote?"

Try to speak 4 languages, maybe you will understand my struggle...

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@Greattyphoon.3120 said:

@Greattyphoon.3120 said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

Yes, there is just one Jormag. They is often used in English to refer to people without distinguishing between genders (for example when you don't know what gender the person you are referring to may be). So as an example, I would say over the internet about someone who's gender I don't know, they like GW2, instead of he/she likes GW2.

Ah okay I think I might understand. When I learned English, I was told "they" is always plural, and neutral singular was "it". But thank you for the explanation. Why not use "it" since Jormag is a dragon is also confusing to me. But thank you.

Yeah "it" would probably have been a more clearer meaning option here.

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@"Greattyphoon.3120" said:Ah okay I think I might understand. When I learned English, I was told "they" is always plural, and neutral singular was "it". But thank you for the explanation. Why not use "it" since Jormag is a dragon is also confusing to me. But thank you.The use of "it" as a singular in regards to a person is considered offensive in many places because "it" is typically used for objects, and so speaking about a person as if they were an object is generally frowned upon. The word "they" retains the humanizing elements of other words like he/him/she/her, and is thus the preferred term when talking about people.

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@Greattyphoon.3120 said:

@Greattyphoon.3120 said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

Yes, there is just one Jormag. They is often used in English to refer to people without distinguishing between genders (for example when you don't know what gender the person you are referring to may be). So as an example, I would say over the internet about someone who's gender I don't know, they like GW2, instead of he/she likes GW2.

Ah okay I think I might understand. When I learned English, I was told "they" is always plural, and neutral singular was "it". But thank you for the explanation. Why not use "it" since Jormag is a dragon is also confusing to me. But thank you.

There's many reasons.

The most common one, is when speaking, a native English speaker will typically use "they" in the scenario, as it rolls off the tongue more naturally.

Another reason is that "it" can come across as impersonal or offensive when talking about a living thing.

It's one of the many silly quirks of the English language. But yes, both "it" and "they" can be used when talking about a singular entity and in fact can be used interchangeably in such a fashion and still be correct. Even if only "they" is usable when referring to plurals.

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@Atomos.7593 said:

@Greattyphoon.3120 said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

Yes, there is just one Jormag. They is often used in English to refer to people without distinguishing between genders (for example when you don't know what gender the person you are referring to may be). So as an example, I would say over the internet about someone who's gender I don't know, they like GW2, instead of he/she likes GW2.

Ah okay I think I might understand. When I learned English, I was told "they" is always plural, and neutral singular was "it". But thank you for the explanation. Why not use "it" since Jormag is a dragon is also confusing to me. But thank you.

Yeah "it" would probably have been a more clearer meaning option here.

YEP. While Taimi and Gorrik (and Anet) started using „they“ for Jormag in the prologue magazine describing the EDs, due to Aurene being gendered, we haven‘t heard from Jormag directly what its preferred pronouns are (and I doubt Jormag even cares).Until then, Jormag will just keep being a sentient natural disaster to me. A danger that has to be contained. So „it“ or simply „Jormag“ it is.

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@Raknar.4735 said:

@Greattyphoon.3120 said:So just one? Why use 'they' if there is only one? (sorry, not native English speaker here)

Yes, there is just one Jormag. They is often used in English to refer to people without distinguishing between genders (for example when you don't know what gender the person you are referring to may be). So as an example, I would say over the internet about someone who's gender I don't know, they like GW2, instead of he/she likes GW2.

Ah okay I think I might understand. When I learned English, I was told "they" is always plural, and neutral singular was "it". But thank you for the explanation. Why not use "it" since Jormag is a dragon is also confusing to me. But thank you.

Yeah "it" would probably have been a more clearer meaning option here.

YEP. While Taimi and Gorrik (and Anet) started using „they“ for Jormag in the prologue magazine describing the EDs, due to Aurene being gendered, we haven‘t heard from Jormag directly what its preferred pronouns are (and I doubt Jormag even cares).Until then, Jormag will just keep being a sentient natural disaster to me. A danger that has to be contained. So „it“ or simply „Jormag“ it is.

Actually, after looking into it a bit more, Anet even tells us that Jormag doesn‘t care, as long as it benefits from it.„Jormag is fine with you perceiving Jormag in whatever way best persuades you to want what Jormag wants“Source: https://twitter.com/tomabernathy/status/1176063546855055360So yeah, using whatever pronouns you desire for Jormag is fine.

Messed up edit, came out as double post.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:There is only one Jormag.But for some unnecessary reason, Arenanet started to use the third person plural for her,instead of using 'it' as they did for other dragons.

"It" was in some ways the incorrect use. "It" is used for objects and items and "they" is used for people or personalities. However in the beginning, the Dragons were often still portrayed as forces of nature and the humanising of them that came later meant that "it" was no longer appropriate (not that it should have been if being correct)

There are also conflictions within the rules between American English and British English

Then again, it's video game and such things are fairly trivial

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@"Randulf.7614" said:"It" was in some ways the incorrect use. "It" is used for objects and items and "they" is used for people or personalities.Dragons are still non-human animals.And non-human animals, whose gender is not known, are usually referred to as "it".

Many of these animals have personalities.Sometimes they even have more personality than some people.

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I think the idea Anet have been trying to convey is that the Elder Dragons specifically have transcended well beyond being animals. They are their own beings, their own identities - a sentience which almost makes them their own race.

At the beginning Tyrian understanding of the Dragons was much more restricted, so whilst "it" was more common usage, had they known what they came to learn (or the writers had pushed that side of things more), then "they" would have been correct back then as it is now.

The language used has changed as the understanding changed. Whether Anet deliberately intended evolve things in that manner that I can't say, but it's one of the more interesting things they worked into their writing (to me anyway)

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:"It" was in some ways the incorrect use. "It" is used for objects and items and "they" is used for people or personalities.Dragons are still non-human animals.And non-human animals, whose gender is not known, are usually referred to as "it".

Many of these animals have personalities.Sometimes they even have more personality than some people.

In a world with so many sentient races saying "people" or "sentient creatures" is more useful than "non-human." "Non-human" works on our world but not on Tyria where humans are only one of probably a few dozen sentient races.

I would say "they" should be used for all people, that is all sentient creatures, so "they" would be used for charr, asura, hylek, and so on and "it" for objects, items, non-sentient creatures. Referring to a charr or norn, for example, as "it" can be considered rude or demeaning and is probably quite foolish if they're within earshot.

On a historical note "they" has been used in English for the third person singular for centuries, perhaps it's not so common in US English but I know I grew up using it back in the day.

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@Bolbo Baggins.8594 said:In regular English language they means multiple, so i agree its confusing and should not be used. The majority of people (especialy outside America) dont know those alternative pronouns, call me oldfashioned but i stick to pre millenium English, which i learned at school.

As the poster above states, “they” has had multiple meanings or uses for a very long time. It’s not a post millennium thing

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The whole thing about Jormag being male in the past was a trick to keep the Sons of Svanir serving them. Its part of the power of persuasion. Realistically, Elder Dragons don't have genders and while they seem to have a reproductive cycle its likely asexual, because while we've heard some of family trees we've never heard of any dragon having mates, only offspring.

I think both "it" and "they" are fitting for Jormag, since its technically a force of nature, although sentient.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Bolbo Baggins.8594 said:In regular English language they means multiple, so i agree its confusing and should not be used. The majority of people (especialy outside America) dont know those alternative pronouns, call me oldfashioned but i stick to pre millenium English, which i learned at school.

As the poster above states, “they” has had multiple meanings or uses for a very long time. It’s not a post millennium thing

Yes, the thing is the use of They for the last five/ten years is different. Its part of alternative pronounse where some people (humans) identify themself with. I dont think a dragon does that, right, being a Primordal force of nature and all? I leave it with that, its not really a big thing.

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Yeah, it's one of the frustrations of the English language. Using "they" for a singular pronoun is a common practice, even though it may not be technically/grammatically correct. Considering how so many new words get added to English every year just through common usage, it makes me wish we could collectively invent an acceptable singular gender-neutral pronoun, get it commonly used, and get it adopted into the language.

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