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Reaper damage?


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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Jasonbdj.4021" said:Reaper -
  • Can easily be CC'd.
  • Can not facetank same as a core nerco.
  • Has no evades.
  • Slow.
  • Not so great at range.

"can easily be CC'ed" -> has 3 utilities to remove CC, shroud and lich form grant stability."can not facetank same as core necro" -> mostly wrong, reaper shroud prevents damage same as core shroud, it just decays faster."has no evades" -> true other then then 2 basic ones everyone has."slow" -> wrong, along with spectral walk, worm port, reaper dash and perma swiftness with potential for rune of speed reaper is not slow at all."not so great at range" -> lich is 1200 range aoe denial, staff skills have over 1300 actual range, actually all reaper skills other then shroud are at least medium to long range, then can fight people at range, but they cant make use of reaper shroud unless they get in range.So power reaper is too strong because it has staff and lich. These are two things that actually weaken it against a competent encounter.

Staff has one long cooldown skill (staff4) that deals 3k damage and transfers conditions, the rest is a joke on a power build and simply does nothing - no one needs to dodge staff 1, 2, 3 and 5. Lich has a 150s cooldown. Stating that this skill would have any significant impact in a 8 to 10 minute match is ridiculous - not to mention the skill has counters and does not necessary change the outcome of a fight where it is used at all.

I really don't know what's going wrong in US, but since I've seen that minion master scourge and people were telling me this could be played in plat1, I am asking myself whether US requires a completely different balancing approach... sth. like balancing for casuals.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Jasonbdj.4021" said:Reaper -
  • Can easily be CC'd.
  • Can not facetank same as a core nerco.
  • Has no evades.
  • Slow.
  • Not so great at range.

"can easily be CC'ed" -> has 3 utilities to remove CC, shroud and lich form grant stability."can not facetank same as core necro" -> mostly wrong, reaper shroud prevents damage same as core shroud, it just decays faster."has no evades" -> true other then then 2 basic ones everyone has."slow" -> wrong, along with spectral walk, worm port, reaper dash and perma swiftness with potential for rune of speed reaper is not slow at all."not so great at range" -> lich is 1200 range aoe denial, staff skills have over 1300 actual range, actually all reaper skills other then shroud are at least medium to long range, then can fight people at range, but they cant make use of reaper shroud unless they get in range.

"can easily be CC'ed" -> has 3 utilities to remove CC, shroud and lich form grant stability.

Lich is op I agree however reaper hardly have any stability like most meta. Try playing reaper, high chances being stun locked.

"can not facetank same as core necro" -> mostly wrong, reaper shroud prevents damage same as core shroud, it just decays faster.

Yes but reaper do not use the same stats as core otherwise it will just tickle and slowly die, Save your cc break for shroud and run/range/dodge away until it decays.

"has no evades" -> true other then then 2 basic ones everyone has.Others usually have extras too and fart out boons and heals.

"slow" -> wrong, along with spectral walk, worm port, reaper dash and perma swiftness with potential for rune of speed reaper is not slow at all.

Spectral walk, wurm port- just don't chase and switch target. Many builds fart out swiftness anyways, reaper dash is the only skill to help get close to target...other builds have teleports with a bang or stacks of burns.

> "not so great at range" -> lich is 1200 range aoe denial, staff skills have over 1300 actual range, actually all reaper skills other then shroud are at least medium to long range, then can fight people at range, but they cant make use of reaper shroud unless they get in range.

Lich is dumb and op, I am annoyed with anet removing the support function on wells while dumb and easy skills still exist. Staff isn't great and usually you can active them without being harm by dodging through them in current meta. Other meta do way more damage in AOEs then nerco staff. Soul Spiral can be easily dodge away (stun break Executioner's Scythe could be needed), usually shroud will decay fast enough for them not to use it for the second time.

Lich needs a hammer overall

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@KrHome.1920staff has good, AOE, easy to land damage.with HARD cc, Soft CC, utility in poison and cleanse.It has no proper animations and it generates lots of easy shroud. Its also so fucking easy to land hits with staff even toddler can do it.its 1300+ range aoe wapon that can hit through terrain.

If you get CC chained as reaper, its l2p issue. you have 2 sources of stab and 3 ways to remove CC.If you cant make value out of staff its l2p issue.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:@KrHome.1920staff has good, AOE, easy to land damage.with HARD cc, Soft CC, utility in poison and cleanse.It has no proper animations and it generates lots of easy shroud. Its also so kitten easy to land hits with staff even toddler can do it.its 1300+ range aoe wapon that can hit through terrain.

If you get CC chained as reaper, its l2p issue. you have 2 sources of stab and 3 ways to remove CC.If you cant make value out of staff its l2p issue.

Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

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@sitarskee.5738 said:Reapers are hella annoying when you're not careful and get chilled. Not overpowered though, at least in my opinion. They are rather easy to kill because most people don't master it, they just play it because it's kinda easy.

so your argument for reaper not being OP is that its so easy to play that nobody learns to play it properly and thus make mistakes that can be punishes ?

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@Supreme.3164 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

Nailed it. 99% of complaints about Necros in general boil down to "I can't facetank this DUELING CLASS and refuse to change my playstyle to deal with it, despite them having garbage mobility and almost no stunbreaks on many builds" or "condi classes are too stronk." Then they get livid when the actual answer to their problem is to get better at the game.

And yet I seen necro players complaining about other professions/specs....why is this community all about :"my class is balanced yours is OP"?

Because most of the community is simply biased in favor of their own profession, and/or they hear top players giving their opinion and take it as absolute law.tldr it's full of sheeple.

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@Shiyo.3578 add in stupid number of CC to it too.2 chills on staff1 chill on focus.2 chills on shroud1 chill on lich6 sources off chill, some of them last 5s some of them are pulsing.Add in stun and 3 fears and you have CC machine.BTW spinal shivers should not get chill applied on target before dmg, that way its dmg would be slightly lower.If you wanna get chill damage bonus then first apply chill, its stupid that this skill applies chill before the damage -.-

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Shiyo.3578 add in stupid number of CC to it too.2 chills on staff1 chill on focus.2 chills on shroud1 chill on lich6 sources off chill, some of them last 5s some of them are pulsing.Add in stun and 3 fears and you have CC machine.BTW spinal shivers should not get chill applied on target before dmg, that way its dmg would be slightly lower.If you wanna get chill damage bonus then first apply chill, its stupid that this skill applies chill before the damage -.-

I didn't know spinal shivers applied the chill before the damage. I agree, that's kinda stupid.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@sitarskee.5738 said:Reapers are hella annoying when you're not careful and get chilled. Not overpowered though, at least in my opinion. They are rather easy to kill because most people don't master it, they just play it because it's kinda easy.

so your argument for reaper not being OP is that its so easy to play that nobody learns to play it properly and thus make mistakes that can be punishes ?

No, my argument for reaper not being OP is that it's just not OP because it's not hard to kill and read his actions.

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@suialthor.7164 said:

@"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:They don't balance around low tiers for very obvious reasons.

Out of curiosity, what percentage of players do they balance the game around? The top 25%? Is it higher or lower? In theory you should have fewer great players than average or low. So things are probably "balanced" for the minority of players. Honestly, that is fine for ranked play.

No they balance based on the sPvP subforum so it's below that. I'd say 0.001% of the player base is closer to the answer than top 25%.

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@Sifu.9745 said:Funny, I've stopped playing my power Reaper in PvP because of how poor this class is in terms of survivability, low dmg and how easily it could be kited. I enjoy condi Scourge atm. At least i can do some dmg + team support and Survivability is better.When i see a GS reaper i just laugh. Try to hit some non AFK player with your Greatsword lol. You go Reaper Shroud? Np, i just run away from you or invisibility on my Thief and Mesmer.Not sure why professions with the highest health pools in the game such as Warrior and Necromancer are performing so poorly in PvP, while professions with lowest health pools: thief, ele, guardian are unstoppable.

Exactly the same for me. I always want (and often get) reaper on opponent team as condi/support scourge. Reaper is the best target where all my damage counts. Just never stop moving and just avoid its most obvious damage phases. Reaper is really no issue compared to some other specs played at the moment.

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Is there anything this player base will not complain about?

I mean post after post of hey I lost to X class plz nerf.

Then people wonder why we keep losing more and more players.

Of all things , Reaper? I don't even play the class and realize it's pretty well balanced and has tons of hard counter play.

My god people....................

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@Sifu.9745 said:

Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

you sure you talking about the same skill?spinal shiverDamage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?over 2.6 coof, and it applies chill before damage to proc chilled 10% damage bonus.it hits harder then barrage.heck, I keep getting hit for 4-5k by the thing and I play mesmer so I dont even have boonsEDITif you wanna test shiver damage go to golem, hit it with shiver.dmg you deal, multiply by 5.2 and here you go. add in the fact that golems have more toughness

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Sifu.9745" said:

Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

you sure you talking about the same skill?spinal shiverDamage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?over 2.6 coof

The coeff doesn't mean what you think it does if you completely ignore weapon power.

It could use a damage shave but its meant to, and always will be, a strong single target ability that punishes boons.

That the skill is being complained about just shows how much boon creep there has been since the chances of hitting the upper bracket if this skills damage has become almost 100% over the years.

You may think "I don't have any boons" but based on the current game state you almost always have at have at least 2 from doing absolutely nothing but existing.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"Sifu.9745" said:

Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

you sure you talking about the same skill?spinal shiverDamage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?over 2.6 coof

The coeff doesn't mean what you think it does if you completely ignore weapon power.

It could use a damage shave but its meant to, and always will be, a strong single target ability that punishes boons.

That the skill is being complained about just shows how much boon creep there has been since the chances of hitting the upper bracket if this skills damage has become almost 100% over the years.

You may think "I don't have any boons" but based on the current game state you almost always have at have at least 2 from doing absolutely nothing but existing.

meta mesmer has access to only 1 boon.vigor and it doesnt even have 50% uptime.So yes, If I fight reaper in 1v1 and he crits me with it for 5k there is a problem, since AT BEST I can have 2 boons. 1 is vigor after shattering ( at best 20% uptime ) and another is a stolen boon with sigil of absorption.

And honestly entire concept of punishing boons is fucking retarded. Almost nothing punishes boons in this game, most boonrips are even less effective against people that have lots of boons, after all holo with 8 boons doesnt give a fuck when he loses 3, but warrior that has 3 boons is going to have problems when he loses them all.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Sifu.9745" said:

Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

you sure you talking about the same skill?spinal shiverDamage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?over 2.6 coof

The coeff doesn't mean what you think it does if you completely ignore weapon power.

It could use a damage shave but its meant to, and always will be, a strong single target ability that punishes boons.

That the skill is being complained about just shows how much boon creep there has been since the chances of hitting the upper bracket if this skills damage has become almost 100% over the years.

You may think "I don't have any boons" but based on the current game state you almost always have at have at least 2 from doing absolutely nothing but existing.

meta mesmer has access to only 1 boon.vigor and it doesnt even have 50% uptime.So yes, If I fight reaper in 1v1 and he crits me with it for 5k there is a problem, since AT BEST I can have 2 boons. 1 is vigor after shattering ( at best 20% uptime ) and another is a stolen boon with sigil of absorption.

And honestly entire concept of punishing boons is kitten kitten. Almost nothing punishes boons in this game, most boonrips are even less effective against people that have lots of boons, after all holo with 8 boons doesnt give a kitten when he loses 3, but warrior that has 3 boons is going to have problems when he loses them all.I've done the math in another thread. It is impossible for the skill to crit for 5k in pvp when 1 boon is removed. Denying that is really pointless. You are argumenting based on your imagination but not on facts.

And I use this skill each day for years now. In pvp on a berserker or marauder build you can expect between 500 (no boon, no crit) and 6000 (3 boons including protection removed, critical hit, a bit of self might, a bit of vuln. on the target) damage from it. Everything above is extremely rare and you can not realistically build for it.

The hyperbole is huge in this forum. In the lich threads people said it deals 7+k damage "with ease". The reality is that this is the absolute max for a pve build (zerk amulet, all damage modifiers, no defense) on a light armor target.

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@Sifu.9745 said:

Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

Being light armor, I've seen it numerous times.

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