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No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?


Fir.7932

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Another suggestion add in a counter shown how many times this user finished. There is 2 groups of toxic i seen the toxic casuals wich might lead to toxic elitists as the toxic casual group dont want to learn but want rewards the elitist group got tierd and just want to do the content efficiently both groups are bad in long run. The one lead to other wich caused kp to be a thing

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@Oldyoung.6109 said:

@Oldyoung.6109 said:KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

It gives an estimate on someone’s potential skill with whatever awarded that particular KP.

and it could always be bought spoofed or carried for.

My god this excuse is tiresome. People can boost in any and all game modes. It becomes obvious on the first encounter if they are just one of the boosters and they are easily blocked and removed from the party. It takes about 10 seconds into a boss fight to understand how terrible a player may be.

if it's so obvious why do you need kp?

It's pretty yikes that I have to explain this to you, but okay. So, having killed a boss 20 times and being capable of proving it means you likely know your skill level and other people can gauge your skill level and experience with a fight, tempering their expectations to your impact to the group's overall performance. Saying you've killed a boss 20 times and not having a method to prove it leaves it up in the air if you're telling the truth or needing to fight he first boss and waste 1-2 minutes failing to kill, likely have an argument spurred on by the person who lied about their experience that wastes yet more time, dealing with them trolling the LFG posting as they're mad that they got removed for being dead weight, and generally causing headaches for everyone involved.

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The problem with the old KP was people could fake it easily which resulted more then often in awful experience and people quickly leaving the group. From this perspektive nothing new . ATM you can ask for the old KP and the title but soon the KP will be too old to make sense. What you can ask is title + the new weapon skins or infusion but to be honest I don't want to carry much of them around.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the
content
being discriminatory.

Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

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Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is bitch.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the
content
being discriminatory.

Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

well guild are not that affected by kp as most of them don't even use kp and rather evaluate their members on their previous run perf. which cannot happen in pug as there is most often no previous run. however a lot add kp req when posting lfg :)although making it harder for new player to get started may force them to go in a guild (if they don't give up on that content before)

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@"Yellow Rainbow.6142" said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Yellow Rainbow.6142" said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

No, I have over 500 essence and stack of raid boss tokens. I just dont like to measure epeen. It is completely unnecessary and killing the said game mode. And, yes I make my own lfg and I do not kick people for under performing.

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@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

Then they can fix with limit of amouth of guldies per squad

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@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the
content
being discriminatory.

Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...The whole "discriminatory" comment is
only
relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.
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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

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@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

Can be fixed by adjusting game difficulty so kp would never be needed

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the
content
being discriminatory.

Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...The whole "discriminatory" comment is
only
relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.
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@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.

Lack of developer support, which lead to less activity on the LFG, which in turn required more organization, which after dropping below a critical population made discord organization a lot easier. Hence now everyone who wants to raid has either moved to EU or is on Raid Academy on NA. The reason for why the population dropped is nearly irrelevant if your proposed solution does the same, which it does.

Again, I fully agree that players should join guilds or discords or organize. I just fail to understand how ANY player who predominantly uses the LFG would celebrate this change in any way. It's as though having LESS players in any type of content is ever a good thing....

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.

Well if the intent of the change was to remove high KP requirements from the LFG, that might succeed, depending on how well alternatives will take up the KP per-selecting. If the effort to organize grows beyond a certain amount, the net result won't be every one to be welcomed but rather alternatives be found, aka discords, guilds, statics, etc.

So everyone ends up with less LFG posting about high performance groups. No one to be envious about those, since those groups will simply NOT run via the LFG. Doubtful that this is of a net benefit to the mode, except that it might make a few players feel better.

The upside here: it is unlikely that T4 will get completely abandoned given their ease. Only that not as many CM groups form over the LFG.

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

Was to be expected. The one central flawed metric for giving players a try which even related to the content, and please note that meeting the required KP requirements only bought you a ticket of entry to groups, never a guarantee that you could stay, was removed. Unlike say strikes where even content unrelated KP was demanded, which made even less sense. Now players are trying desperately to find alternatives to group with similar skilled players. Obviously this will lead to increased toxicity.

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the
content
being discriminatory.

Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...The whole "discriminatory" comment is
only
relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.

Which to be fair COULD be a net benefit in the long run to the games health. Just not to the players who are not in guilds due to what ever reason.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the
content
being discriminatory.

Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...The whole "discriminatory" comment is
only
relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.

PUGs aren't going to be the only ones affected. Guild teams will be too when they are in the sad position of not having a full team ready at any given time. Although for Fractals this is less of an issue, because it's only 5-man content, but it can happen there too. Maybe you have only 4 online. How are these 4 online players gonna get a player up to their needs to fill that last spot? How is a team of 4 (or 8-9 in Raids) looking for someone with very specific abilities to fill their ranks, be called "discrimination"?This is more like some people putting the wants and the desires of some players above those of others. All players should be treated equal

(and the content being "non discriminatory" wouldn't really help.

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@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:@Cyninja.2954Game is coming out on steam soon.What would they think if only thing they see is high requirement and sellers ads.Anet definitely had to shuffle some stuff. And, this is what we ended up. Hopefully, it is right move.

True, on the upside, even with all the complaining, this latest development has at least once again shown that this game has a passionate player base, even if there is often disagreement on which course of action is in the games best interest.

We have come some way from last years game shut down panic. :cold_sweat:

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the
content
being discriminatory.

Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...The whole "discriminatory" comment is
only
relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.That would however mean that the
mentioned
reasons behind removing KPs are just a smoke screen meant to hide the real intentions. It would also mean they intend to make the content more niche than it already is.I can believe in the former, but i'd be highly doubtful about the latter, especially after their experience with raids and how making a content too niche can easily kill it. Remember, there's absolutely no way moving the content to guild/static only is going to increase its popularity. For raids (content that already, according to devs, is not popular enough to justify further development) it would be a death blow. For fractals it wouldn't be anything good either, tbh.
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@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@Oldyoung.6109 said:KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

It gives an estimate on someone’s potential skill with whatever awarded that particular KP.

and it could always be bought spoofed or carried for.

My god this excuse is tiresome. People can boost in any and all game modes. It becomes obvious on the first encounter if they are just one of the boosters and they are easily blocked and removed from the party. It takes about 10 seconds into a boss fight to understand how terrible a player may be.

if it's so obvious why do you need kp?

It's pretty yikes that I have to explain this to you, but okay. So, having killed a boss 20 times and being capable of proving it means you likely know your skill level and other people can gauge your skill level and experience with a fight, tempering their expectations to your impact to the group's overall performance. Saying you've killed a boss 20 times and not having a method to prove it leaves it up in the air if you're telling the truth or needing to fight he first boss and waste 1-2 minutes failing to kill, likely have an argument spurred on by the person who lied about their experience that wastes yet more time, dealing with them trolling the LFG posting as they're mad that they got removed for being dead weight, and generally causing headaches for everyone involved.

so people can be boosted for or fake kp but it's obvious they are actually bad but you need kp to tell they are actually good and not boosted.

thanks for clearing that up.

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@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

No, I have over 500 essence and stack of raid boss tokens. I just dont like to measure kitten. It is completely unnecessary and killing the said game mode. And, yes I make my own lfg and I do not kick people for under performing.

Good for you? Does that change anything I said? Nope. Sure doesn't!

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