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What if the Plague survived?


EdwinLi.1284

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@"EdwinLi.1284" said:Xan Hei was loyal to the Ministry's cause during those moments but even he eventually discovered the corruption of the Ministry. He may have been a person who will destroy any of the data and copies found but I always question if certain members of the Ministry have the same mind set.

That's Zei Ri you're thinking of. Xan Hei we kill during A Chance Encounter (in front of Zei Ri), because he was zealous to the core and wouldn't dare question the message that Reiko preached.

He was willing to kill someone he worked alongside for quite a while just because they displayed signs of not adhering to the Reiko's message. The question really is, would he even be willing to kill a superior who showed signs of wanting to keep something that has endangered Canthans?

As to the notion of other plans - the indication I got was that the plans we found were the first copies, and we immediately set out to kill the sole person who could make more, before he could make second copies. This is, at least, how the Xan Hei perceived it - and given his zealousness, I don't think he was capable of pretending otherwise. Xan Hei was depicted as your "bullheadedly zealous to the point that he couldn't even pretend to be otherwise".

There are plenty of reason why members of the Ministry may have kept the data and kept it a secret considering they never had found a actual vaccine for this new plague and the data there can be key to create one if someone was to recreate it again some how. Though there is the corrupt members of the ministry who may seek this data as a weapon for them to use and may discover a way to allow Necromancers to create and control a new Plague of their own making.I think you're overselling the "corrupt members of the Ministry" bit. Reiko was 100% pulling a power play, but the entire Ministry of Purity was founded on the notion of being sick and tired of corrupt politics. While I could see later generation Ministry of Purity being full of red tape and corrupt officials taking bribes and setting things up for their own gains, the majority of the first generation of Ministry of Purity were legitimately loyal, but also blindingly zealous to Reiko's initial cause that led them to not question the changes to her message.

As Winds of Change presents it, the only corrupt members of the Ministry of Purity were ultimately Reiko, and probably the Ecclesiate Xun Rao (assuming he actually exists - we never do meet him in-game, and this was intentional; either implies him to be a figure who worked behind the scenes, or didn't even exist in the first place and was just a name for another (or others, plural)). And I imagine that's how it was for quite a while - the rest were just blindingly zealous to the point of not questioning their orders, except Zei Ri.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

As Winds of Change presents it, the only corrupt members of the Ministry of Purity were ultimately Reiko, and probably the Ecclesiate Xun Rao (assuming he actually exists - we never do meet him in-game, and this was intentional; either implies him to be a figure who worked behind the scenes, or didn't even exist in the first place and was just a name for another (or others, plural)). And I imagine that's how it was for quite a while - the rest were just blindingly zealous to the point of not questioning their orders, except Zei Ri.

That is a interesting plot point though that is hopefully finally covered in GW2 Cantha Expansion. The developers did say Ecclesiate Xun Rao not appearing was intended but they never revealed why thus leaving it up to the player's theories. Yet we have a minion of him in GW1.

The GW developers also refer to Xun Rao as the "biggest threat to Cantha"

One can only speculate what this all means since they never revealed the mystery behind Ecclesiate Xun Rao.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:That’s been answered though. It would be a reaction of surprise and confusion given we know the afflicted couldn’t still exist and their story is completed.

So basically, the best way I can describe it, the same reaction people will have if Small Pox suddenly appeared in the world again in a spot too far from a place that stores the cure for it.

Except that smallpox was kinda unique among infectious diseases:
  • It was a humans-only disease so there's no reservoir of unvaccinated animals that can reinfect humans.
  • There was an non-dangerous disease (cowpox) that, if you caught it, you would generate an immune response that's effective against smallpox.(1)
  • It was easy to extract an attenuated strain of cowpox and/or smallpox that would infect you (and create an immune response) but not make you sick.

So in general a reappearance of smallpox could only happen if it is accidentally unfrozen and released from one of the very few labs (er, two, one in the US, one in Russia, that kind of very few) that still stores it. (This happened in England in 1978, and there was one fatality and no further outbreak.)

And where exactly in the world is so far away, in the 21st Century, that it would be impossible to ship the necessary stuff there? (Vaccines effective against smallpox are still manufactured - the most recent one got FDA approval in 2007.)

So the reaction would be a mix of "What's smallpox?" and "Oh, that was over quickly. Good thing they still make vaccines for it."

(1) The term "vaccination" comes from the Latin word for cow, and strictly speaking on that basis you can only be vaccinated against things that cowpox infections are effective against, like smallpox. The word has, of course, been broadened to any similar process of immunisation, even one that doesn't involve a second disease.

Well you have to remember a Vaccine was never created for the Plague. The only "cure" for it they had was to attempt thorough extermination of all infected even those who were recently infected.

For sure. My comment was mostly directed at the comparison with smallpox rather than at the GW/GW2 lore aspect. A more pertinent comparison would be a sudden outbreak of ebola in, say, the US Mid-West.

though thinking about it Jeijou was a Necromancer/Ritualist(sub Profession) which maybe a potential Elite Spec focusing on using and controlling the Plague for Necromancer in Cantha Expansion. A Elite Spec that uses the data Jeijou created about recreating the Plague to cause Plague like attacks and maybe modify minions into Plague formed minions.

Hmmmmm. That could be interesting.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:So while everyone else are talking about Dragons let us discuss something that may or may not return in Cantha expansion being the Plague.

The scenario I present is a if scenario until confirmed being that what IF the plague survived in Cantha sealed off in a spot within the lowests region of the City where only the poor and desperate would dare to live near or enter. It is a small region that most of those poor souls living in the lowest levels are right next to but never go into unless it is out of desperation to find food and salvage dropped down from the higher levels.

We can speak with NPCs and hear NPC living down there talking about stories involving hearing strange deformed voices in the darkness of those areas and screams of people who wander into that area but their bodies can never be found.

Then at some point in the Cantha Main Storyline we are blased into that area and spend some time only hearing sounds in every corner. We can see strange lumps of deformed flesh forming in areas as if something died there but the flesh has kept growing after the thing died. Eventually as we get closer to what looks like a safe place, we find it empty with only signs that people lived there recently but blood is everywhere yet no bodies. It is at this moment after investigating the small camp we find a survivor but that survivor is acting strange and telling us to stay away from him. Yet the commander ignores this warning and this survivor suddenly attacks the Commander but is successfully killed. At this moment the Afflicted makes their return into GW2 and the Commander must fight off the Afficted until he or she is put into a down state (no achievement) or survive long enough for a group of mysterious people to arrive (achievement ). After this the game progress with a Afficted story chapter for a while until the Commander finally escapes this region of the Undercity.

and here is where I end the IF scenario stuff since let just wait and see what Cantha expansion may bring.....

So how will you react if the Afflicted returned in such a manner or if they return in another way?

Do you think it would be a wise business decision for NC and Anet to do plague stuff in the Cantha Xpac while we are experiencing a real life pandemic that came from China?

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@Swagger.1459 said:

Do you think it would be a wise business decision for NC and Anet to do plague stuff in the Cantha Xpac while we are experiencing a real life pandemic that came from China?

At this point the expansion maybe already done and the plot already set which means if the plague return in Cantha expansion then it was already planned before the Pandemic we are dealing with now.

there is no need to drag politics into something that may have been already planned before the pandemic we are dealing with now even existed

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

Do you think it would be a wise business decision for NC and Anet to do plague stuff in the Cantha Xpac while we are experiencing a real life pandemic that came from China?

At this point the expansion maybe already done and the plot already set which means if the plague return in Cantha expansion then it was already planned before the Pandemic we are dealing with now.

there is no need to drag politics into something that may have been already planned before the pandemic we are dealing with now even existed

I’m not dragging “politics”. I’m stating a fact. And the fact of the matter is that some in the community and gaming news sites may see the plague stuff being implemented as tone deaf given the current state of things.

I want you to read what you wrote and then pause to consider what is happening right now in the real world...

“despite Shiro's death the Plague still carried its basic functions of how it infects people though.

They literally had to cut off certain areas where the plague was affecting the most during Winds of Change so no one can enter those areas while they exterminate the remaining Afflicted. However, we never did see if they were thoroughly enough and if certain spots that were sealed off may have been missed which is a scary thought like how some well known deadly diseases that are considered wiped out now may still exists because of a small spot on Earth holding the virus for that disease.”

Do you think it would be a wise decision for Anet to do this plague stuff while we are experiencing a global pandemic? One where devs are working from home because of it? And one where their product will go overseas?

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@Swagger.1459 said:

Do you think it would be a wise business decision for NC and Anet to do plague stuff in the Cantha Xpac while we are experiencing a real life pandemic that came from China?

At this point the expansion maybe already done and the plot already set which means if the plague return in Cantha expansion then it was already planned before the Pandemic we are dealing with now.

there is no need to drag politics into something that may have been already planned before the pandemic we are dealing with now even existed

I’m not dragging “politics”. I’m stating a fact. And the fact of the matter is that some in the community and gaming news sites may see the plague stuff being implemented as tone deaf given the current state of things.

I want you to read what you wrote and then pause to consider what is happening right now in the real world...

“despite Shiro's death the Plague still carried its basic functions of how it infects people though.

They literally had to cut off certain areas where the plague was affecting the most during Winds of Change so no one can enter those areas while they exterminate the remaining Afflicted. However, we never did see if they were thoroughly enough and if certain spots that were sealed off may have been missed which is a scary thought like how some well known deadly diseases that are considered wiped out now may still exists because of a small spot on Earth holding the virus for that disease.”

Do you think it would be a wise decision for Anet to do this plague stuff while we are experiencing a global pandemic? One where devs are working from home because of it? And one where their product will go overseas?

I know you are rather concerned about how people will react to this in different ways especially negatively.

If you want what I think then there no right answer because I always believe artistic freedom should not be restricted simply because it fits the ideals or current ideals of certain people of the time or the majority due to reality issues while at the sametime people will always find something they don't like and relate it to a current global issue some how. When a story is being told it is a story about that world and its history, the message we see from it can vary based on the individual from relating to our world issue, personal issues, to lessons on life, and some may never have a answer for it.

There will obviously be people who disagree and say that a entertainment content should restrict the concept of something because they may find it too much of a current world issues or not enough of said current world issues.

However, we all have different views when it comes to these things especially in the stories being told.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

Do you think it would be a wise business decision for NC and Anet to do plague stuff in the Cantha Xpac while we are experiencing a real life pandemic that came from China?

At this point the expansion maybe already done and the plot already set which means if the plague return in Cantha expansion then it was already planned before the Pandemic we are dealing with now.

there is no need to drag politics into something that may have been already planned before the pandemic we are dealing with now even existed

I’m not dragging “politics”. I’m stating a fact. And the fact of the matter is that some in the community and gaming news sites may see the plague stuff being implemented as tone deaf given the current state of things.

I want you to read what you wrote and then pause to consider what is happening right now in the real world...

“despite Shiro's death the Plague still carried its basic functions of how it infects people though.

They literally had to cut off certain areas where the plague was affecting the most during Winds of Change so no one can enter those areas while they exterminate the remaining Afflicted. However, we never did see if they were thoroughly enough and if certain spots that were sealed off may have been missed which is a scary thought like how some well known deadly diseases that are considered wiped out now may still exists because of a small spot on Earth holding the virus for that disease.”

Do you think it would be a wise decision for Anet to do this plague stuff while we are experiencing a global pandemic? One where devs are working from home because of it? And one where their product will go overseas?

I know you are rather concerned about how people will react to this in different ways especially negatively.

If you want what I think then there no right answer because I always believe artistic freedom should not be restricted simply because it fits the ideals or current ideals of certain people of the time or the majority due to reality issues while at the sametime people will always find something they don't like and relate it to a current global issue some how. When a story is being told it is a story about that world and its history, the message we see from it can vary based on the individual from relating to our world issue, personal issues, to lessons on life, and some may never have a answer for it.

There will obviously be people who disagree and say that a entertainment content should restrict the concept of something because they may find it too much of a current world issues or not enough of said current world issues.

However, we all have different views when it comes to these things especially in the stories being told.

There are tons of other stories and plots Anet can use that would be more tasteful and appropriate given the current state of affairs.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:

Do you think it would be a wise business decision for NC and Anet to do plague stuff in the Cantha Xpac while we are experiencing a real life pandemic that came from China?

At this point the expansion maybe already done and the plot already set which means if the plague return in Cantha expansion then it was already planned before the Pandemic we are dealing with now.

there is no need to drag politics into something that may have been already planned before the pandemic we are dealing with now even existed

Preproduction for the expansion would have begun around the same time as Icebrood Saga - so that would have been before the pandemic. But they wouldn't be so far along as to be unable to change the plot by the time of January coming around, let alone March or later.

That said, the expansion shouldn't launch until September or November 2021 (depending on if there's an epilogue after IBS, and assuming the second half of IBS launches in the same structure as the first half with an intermission between episodes 6 and 7). The pandemic may be much more quelled by then, though it still wouldn't be the best move from a political viewpoint.

Especially if they want to launch this expansion in China.

But to me, the biggest issue is that "plague in Cantha" would just be a redux of "plague in Elona" that was Season 4's first half. "Joko uses an imitation of the scarab plague to frighten people." "Joko is a tyrannical despot that controls the masses through lies." "Joko is unleashing the real plague and we must stop him."

The idea of the Ministry of Purity running a propaganda campaign and hiding the existence of the survived plague is just the above, but swap "Joko" for "Ministry of Purity". It's a redux plot, and even when going after ANet, they don't do such obvious redux plots.

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@Randulf.7614 said:I don't think it can. The plague existed purely due to Shiro's presence corrupting living organisms. No Shiro means the plague eventually dissipated as the remaining afflicted would have been hunted down.

i am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but lots of commanders will bring shiro back!imagine the revenant commander suddenly corrupting cantha civilians because he has shiro equipped

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@WorldofBay.8160 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I don't think it can. The plague existed purely due to Shiro's presence corrupting living organisms. No Shiro means the plague eventually dissipated as the remaining afflicted would have been hunted down.

i am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but lots of commanders will bring shiro back!imagine the revenant commander suddenly corrupting cantha civilians because he has shiro equipped

Well, it isn't the real Shiro. It's an echo of Shiro who - based on the dialogue - seems to be an echo of pre-Factions Shiro. The entire lack of any hint or implication of following a dark god does imply pre-Nightfall at least.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I don't think it can. The plague existed purely due to Shiro's presence corrupting living organisms. No Shiro means the plague eventually dissipated as the remaining afflicted would have been hunted down.

i am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but lots of commanders will bring shiro back!imagine the revenant commander suddenly corrupting cantha civilians because he has shiro equipped

Well, it isn't the real Shiro. It's an echo of Shiro who - based on the dialogue - seems to be an echo of pre-Factions Shiro. The entire lack of any hint or implication of following a dark god does imply pre-Nightfall at least.

Not going to lie, a part of me hope they take into account the Revenant ability to have Shiro mist soul thing in their heads and have special dialogues from him and conversation between the commander and Shiro that pops up on specific points in the storyline if players are Revenants.

It will certainly make the experience unique for Revenant players like how unique Sylvari players experience is in Heart of Thorns.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I don't think it can. The plague existed purely due to Shiro's presence corrupting living organisms. No Shiro means the plague eventually dissipated as the remaining afflicted would have been hunted down.

i am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but lots of commanders will bring shiro back!imagine the revenant commander suddenly corrupting cantha civilians because he has shiro equipped

Well, it isn't the real Shiro. It's an echo of Shiro who - based on the dialogue - seems to be an echo of pre-Factions Shiro. The entire lack of any hint or implication of following a dark god does imply pre-Nightfall at least.

Not going to lie, a part of me hope they take into account the Revenant ability to have Shiro mist soul thing in their heads and have special dialogues from him and conversation between the commander and Shiro that pops up on specific points in the storyline.

It will certainly make the experience unique for Revenant players like how unique Sylvari players experience is in Heart of Thorns.

Whilst I agree that would a cool thing to do, I would then expect it for the others too. King Jalis for Thunderhead, Glint in the Crystal Desert, Ventari in Maguuma or Pale Tree.

I guess it depends if the echoes would even understand they were in the relevant location - I’m guessing not

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I don't think it can. The plague existed purely due to Shiro's presence corrupting living organisms. No Shiro means the plague eventually dissipated as the remaining afflicted would have been hunted down.

i am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but lots of commanders will bring shiro back!imagine the revenant commander suddenly corrupting cantha civilians because he has shiro equipped

Well, it isn't the real Shiro. It's an echo of Shiro who - based on the dialogue - seems to be an echo of pre-Factions Shiro. The entire lack of any hint or implication of following a dark god does imply pre-Nightfall at least.

Not going to lie, a part of me hope they take into account the Revenant ability to have Shiro mist soul thing in their heads and have special dialogues from him and conversation between the commander and Shiro that pops up on specific points in the storyline.

It will certainly make the experience unique for Revenant players like how unique Sylvari players experience is in Heart of Thorns.

Whilst I agree that would a cool thing to do, I would then expect it for the others too. King Jalis for Thunderhead, Glint in the Crystal Desert, Ventari in Maguuma or Pale Tree.

I guess it depends if the echoes would even understand they were in the relevant location - I’m guessing not

They technically do have unique dialogues for Kalla - if you have any of the gear named after her equipped, there will be unique lines said.

I just hope that they alter the "What has become of Cantha in my absence?" and "I want to go there someday" lines for Shiro's idle chatter. At the very least, the response needs to change.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

The idea of the Ministry of Purity running a propaganda campaign and hiding the existence of the survived plague is just the above, but swap "Joko" for "Ministry of Purity". It's a redux plot, and even when going after ANet, they don't do such obvious redux plots.

Balthaddon will burn out your eyes!

But yeah, it probably is too hot-on-the-heels even by ArenaNet's standards, despite how much they do like "oh, that thing you thought was fixed in a previous campaign? It's not fixed" plots.

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Honestly, when i made this post it was not about focusing on making the Plague the main focus of the Cantha storyline but as a side story or a very small part of the story that is easily resolved. Thus containing it within a single map located in the lowest part of Cantha City where only the desperate and poor will live.

In the past Cantha's only solution was to exterminate all those who are assumed infected or are infected. With current modern technology in GW2 we probably can resolve it story wise easily thus leaving the plague contained in that single map exclusively.

Of course I am also thinking about stuff like creating a Necro Elite Spec about using Jeijou knowledge about the plague to have mastery over the plague to a point this Plague Master Elite Spec knows how to control, spread, and cure the Plague along with other disease due to their extensive knowledge of disease and how they work. Thus creating a Elite Spec (probably specialize in pure condition damage) that focus on using leftover knowledge from surviving members of Am Fah that manage to get away and stay in hiding. So the topic may have been partly influenced by that. It may be interesting if the Cantha Expansion are individually created by each organization we know about in GW1 cantha such as a Guardian Elite Spec created by the Ministry of Purity after events of GW1 about Purifying things like a Space Marine (warhammer 40K) of GW2 world.

Speaking of Am Fah, did they ever find the identity of the Am Fah Leader?

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@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@"EdwinLi.1284" said:It may be interesting if the Cantha Expansion are individually created by each organization we know about in GW1 cantha such as a Guardian Elite Spec created by the Ministry of Purity after events of GW1 about Purifying things like a Space Marine (warhammer 40K) of GW2 world.
lDP0v7l.jpg

Hey if there is a Xeno hating and heretic purging crazy organization then you know there is only one outcome that will appear from it.

Either way we will need to go into Cantha and purge some heresy anyways.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"dusanyu.4057" said:now i want a rifle Guardian spec

The funny thing is that engineer is this commando class.

Flashbang? Has become a trait for engi in explosives now.Night vision? Utility goggles are something really close.Calling a nuke from the sky? We got orbital strike.

We just need an outfit that gives us that swat uniform and Anet made this joke come true.

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