No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look. Another solution is the new combat tonic, again 42 cm clears.

No, you only need 14 days of CM dailies.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

@Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look. Another solution is the new combat tonic, again 42 cm clears.

No, you only need 14 days of CM dailies.

14 days of clearing all 3 cms, still 42 total cm. It is like the old li requirements, someone might have 150 lis, but those 150 could all be from escort, tc and sw. Even cm 98 has decent skill requirement, unlike escort, tc and sw.

[lare.5129]

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look.mostly I accept. This idea valid. But we need more elite workspace for ower toxic people.

[ArtSpace.7326]

From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

[Asum.4960]

@"ArtSpace.7326" said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god).Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

I do think that's a fairly unhelpful/dismissive generalisation based on fairly limited anecdotal evidence and bias and more the exception to the rule. Having played that content literally hundreds of times, either rarely fully pugging or mostly filling missing static spots, there usually was a fairly night and day difference between giving people with very low (or no) KP a shot and taking experienced high KP players.

To clarify, KP doesn't directly correlate to player skill ofc, but rather experience with the content at hand, so of course in the early days of a new release a new title directly connected to that is more valuable and accurate than unrelated old KP (or titles) to gauge experience and proficiency with that particular content.Yet over the time a single clear title gets more and more devalued by sellers and carrying, while KP's earned from repeated clears once again gain value as most accurate representation for proficiency levels that is/was available to players.

That said, I do empathise with your frustration about missing the train on building up KP early and then struggling to get into experienced (and therefor likely good) groups while being a very proficient player clearly capable of clearing the content yourself.But props to you for just making your own groups and getting it done, which is something everybody can do - especially when they don't believe in KP's being accurate, there really shouldn't be any harm then in making ones own non KP groups, whether KP existed still or not.

But do take note that you immediately started gating as well as soon as you had a, at least for now somewhat relevant and accurate still, tool to do so in form of the title.

At the end of the day using be it KP's, Titles or whatever else, isn't done out of spite or purposefully gating, but just people wanting to be matched with players of similar skill, capable of clearing the content smoothly/to their expectations, to have a fun run.I don't think it's fair to just demonise that as unjust "discrimination" painting it purely negatively with broad strokes.There is a reason people invented the use of KP and used it so broadly, and that's because it was both needed and worked, at least reasonably well.

I will be rooting for LFG still being a useable tool for high end content without KP's existing anymore as that obviously would be ideal. But having experienced over and over and over again in the past why exactly some gating like KP was necessary to have consistent fun runs with like minded players, I'm just not very optimistic about this being the right move - at least not without any better designed alternative to take it's place.

[Nephalem.8921]

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

[GHOST.8609]

The bad effect we are not realizing yet is in few months when the new players starting cms now will not be able to show the kps will be face the toxicity and challenges to join a group. Again I will be politely telling people to leave if they join my group and do not have 100+kp.

If they did auto forced conversion of kp then we could have understand, and then people will just bring infusions as kp or maybe Li from raids or so on. As people will not just magically stop using some kind of kp and just go on the first group they find on LFG.

I wonder if the people who made this design choice ever played this game trough LFG, just come inside the game and go to LFG after your cool intervention and see the for at least 10 min in Prime EU play time. Only 5 days have gone, All cm lfgs are like this X amount of KP + Either DoD or DwD title. (even for old cms + t4 ). Ty for the read.

[Alita.8142]

@GHOST.8609 said:The bad effect we are not realizing yet is in few months when the new players starting cms now will not be able to show the kps will be face the toxicity and challenges to join a group. Again I will be politely telling people to leave if they join my group and do not have 100+kp.

If they did auto forced conversion of kp then we could have understand, and then people will just bring infusions as kp or maybe Li from raids or so on. As people will not just magically stop using some kind of kp and just go on the first group they find on LFG.

I wonder if the people who made this design choice ever played this game trough LFG, just come inside the game and go to LFG after your cool intervention and see the for at least 10 min in Prime EU play time. Only 5 days have gone, All cm lfgs are like this X amount of KP + Either DoD or DwD title. (even for old cms + t4 ). Ty for the read.

Yes, they have only made the situation worse, now new players can't get the old kp that will still be in demand and that now have more value...And even if they had broke the kp completely, there will always be other type of kp that will be asked to enter experienced pugs, and I see it logical, and new players has to look for trainings or groups with low kp, we all did it at the beginning. And else play with guild or friends.

As low difficulty of CMs for that requirements to go down is a solution very complex, I just see an ideal way, show kp in avatar/portrait just next to AR, a more comfortable and direct system than archaic ping kp/choice title for show.

And then they also could study someway for that if a group of +50kp for example has a 1-2 players with low kp and wipe/try more times a boss, that group get middle rewards for example like relics, similar to raids with magnetite shards when hit a % of lifebar of boss, something similar to also encourage and reward extra time for complete factals playing with less experienced people.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@"Yellow Rainbow.6142" said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Nah, bro, people were saying "Form your own group of like-minded people." This means either join a guild, find some friends or opening the contacts tab, going to the LFG section, selecting the content you wanted to do (Raids, fractals, dungeons, strikes), then with raids and dungeons, selecting the instance you plan on doing or with fractals, selecting the level scale you're doing, clicking "Create Group" and writing your requirements be it "CMs+T4s+Recs | All Roles | 42069 KP", "Chill CMs+T4s", or "All welcome T4s". Protip; the former always t akes longer to fill than t he two latter ones specifically about an hour before reset to an hour after reset. Afterwords, it begins to fall off and all groups take forever to fill about 4-5 hours after reset.

[Fangoth.4503]

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

No, I have over 500 essence and stack of raid boss tokens. I just dont like to measure kitten. It is completely unnecessary and killing the said game mode. And, yes I make my own lfg and I do not kick people for under performing.

people are lazy so if it was unecessary as you say no one would use it

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look. Another solution is the new combat tonic, again 42 cm clears.

yes if you forget that there is 200 ecto bound to it so if you have to ping 10 of them you need to invest 442 gold when it was just free

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?Karma is kitten.

Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

if people ain't smart enough to realise if they don't have the kp or a close enough amount they should join a lower amount group or a kp free group then maybe they shouldn't play because mechanics will ask them a minimum of thinking anyway.i started fractals 1-2 months ago and could start clearing daily in 0 up to 40kp groupblaming kp when its totally possible to join groups that are without it isn't a good solutionpeople a playing a game to enjoy it, some like to train new player some doesn't and you should respect both equally

I'd add to that that over the peeps on effeciency i'm above 96% of the player base with 44kp (I don't have dev data to check over the whole player base) so my group level take about 1h-1h30 to clear to CM+T4 so from what you're saying would be my duty to carry someone along my group in which case to make it fair i would have to carry 24 person myself and my 3 other team mate would have to also carry 24 person which mean that in a day we have to carry 96 people which will take between 96 and 144hours of gameplay daily to do so. not gonna happen ty

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:@Cyninja.2954Game is coming out on steam soon.What would they think if only thing they see is high requirement and sellers ads.Anet definitely had to shuffle some stuff. And, this is what we ended up. Hopefully, it is right move.now they will see sellers add, people asking for currency that they can't obtain. tell me how is it any better?Oh yeah people that will ask for no currency will kick them for bad gameplay when the only thing they need is to learn how mechs works

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

[Fangoth.4503]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Fangoth.4503 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

[Fangoth.4503]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Fangoth.4503 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

you don't have to die if the dps is high enough to kill the boss before he hit you

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Fangoth.4503 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Fangoth.4503 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

you don't have to die if the dps is high enough to kill the boss before he hit you

that's not gonna happen, also does not change the fact that 2k dps player is more skillfull if he can stay alive

[Fangoth.4503]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Fangoth.4503 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Fangoth.4503 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"ArtSpace.7326" said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

you don't have to die if the dps is high enough to kill the boss before he hit you

that's not gonna happen, also does not change the fact that 2k dps player is more skillfull if he can stay alive

its whole principal of fractal kill fast enough so you take close to 0 damage. go look a bit about speedclear reports:98CM:MAMA: 36sec kill, 13k to 34k damage takenSIAX: 24sec kill, 0 dmg takenEnsolyss: 1m26 0 to 3k damage taken99CM:skor: 39sec, 0 to 8k damage takenartsa: 35sec, 360 to 2k damage takenarkk:1m23, 1k to 16k damage takenfull dps and self heal is enough no need to go "minstrel dps"ofc if you want you can go full minstrel whatever and facetank everything but no one want that because its totally inefficient. if you fancy 5 healer group go make some in lfg you gonna have your kill but no one will want that in kp group

[sigur.9453]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

Yes, since in „those groups“ the consent of people that play is:Kill the target as fast as possible before it kills you.

If there is someone lacking on dps, the whole scenario falls apart, and often enough the last one standing is in fact the reason the other 4 players died.Im not saying this is valid for all groups, but this is the most common tactic used.

But you would need to have enough exp in this content/playstyle to understand that.

[lare.5129]

@ArtSpace.7326 said:From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic.depend that you wait from 250kp. 250 - is beginners, 1000+ - low-mid, 2000+ mid. No sarcasm.Per all time that kp was the true value as train go far. Per all time that kp was - the 250 kp is minimal requirement for hope that person know where write gg, and where stand.

[Katary.7096]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:that's not gonna happen, also does not change the fact that 2k dps player is more skillfull if he can stay aliveWhat if the 2k dps player is wearing full nomad gear?

[lare.5129]

@Katary.7096 said:What if the 2k dps player is wearing full nomad gear?in guildward2 we can not inspect build, armor stats, and others things .. So answer: no one know.

ofc we can report a bug, that we can't to it, but more easy relax...

[Nephalem.8921]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:A skillful player does high dps while staying alive. Just staying alive is worthless on its own. Everytime i joined 50kp groups i ended outdamaging dps players as alac ren. Sometimes even ended as top dps.Some players might know how to play with no or close to no cm knowledge but those players usually played a lot of difficult content in other mmos before. The majority doesnt know how to burst, cc or dps. Not everyone enjoys 15min boss fights with so few phases. It is not a raidboss and doesnt have the mechanics to be enjoyable for that long and 5 minutes here and 3 minutes there add up quite fast. A decent group can clear the new frac in 5-6min already. Thats more than 6min saved compared to your average fiesta. Thats the difference between 35min daily fractal clears and 1h+ runs.

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:A skillful player does high dps while staying alive. Just staying alive is worthless on its own. Everytime i joined 50kp groups i ended outdamaging dps players as alac ren. Sometimes even ended as top dps.Some players might know how to play with no or close to no cm knowledge but those players usually played a lot of difficult content in other mmos before. The majority doesnt know how to burst, cc or dps. Not everyone enjoys 15min boss fights with so few phases. It is not a raidboss and doesnt have the mechanics to be enjoyable for that long and 5 minutes here and 3 minutes there add up quite fast. A decent group can clear the new frac in 5-6min already. Thats more than 6min saved compared to your average fiesta. Thats the difference between 35min daily fractal clears and 1h+ runs.

that's not what he said, he said that only one stayed alive 2k dps while the kp players died, so they are unskilled

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Oldyoung.6109 said:KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

and lie with chat code generator.

Truth is that, people peaked in their knowledge and skill at around 20 ESS. Most players experienced the largest growth between 1 ESS and about 20 ESS. The difference in player skill between a 20 ESS player and a 200 ESS player was so marginally low that it didn't really matter aside from if you really cared that much about completing your nightly fractal run a few minutes faster than normal. And yeah, that mentality brought in a lot of really really unnecessary toxicity actually.

@Fir.7932 Mark my words, having no ESS KP for this big fake imminence front will reduce toxicity in very significant ways.

[Janitsu.6284]

@ParadoX.3124 said:Title is the new kpTitles are bad KP, they can be bought with ease and won't reflect anyone's skill (especially in the case of titles similar to LNHB or the new undying title, where you can get carried by bringing more healers).

@Oldyoung.6109 said:KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

KP is not an accurate indicator of skill, however, it's the best that people had. I don't think it's discriminatory, everyone has the same chances to acquire said KP and are free to join any groups with the KP that they had. It was literally the easiest solution to the issue that is the lacking LFG system that doesn't give you any idea of anyone's actual skill without using items that can be count as KP. This is an issue in GW2, since a lot of people would rather join groups of their skill level with ease, than join a group of lower skill level and have to do more work for their rewards and for the content.

[Cerioth.7062]

@Janitsu.6284 said:

@ParadoX.3124 said:Title is the new kpTitles are bad KP, they can be bought with ease and won't reflect anyone's skill (especially in the case of titles similar to LNHB or the new undying title, where you can get carried by bringing more healers).

@Oldyoung.6109 said:KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

KP is not an accurate indicator of skill, however, it's the best that people had. I don't think it's discriminatory, everyone has the same chances to acquire said KP and are free to join any groups with the KP that they had. It was literally the easiest solution to the issue that is the lacking LFG system that doesn't give you any idea of anyone's actual skill without using items that can be count as KP. This is an issue in GW2, since a lot of people would rather join groups of their skill level with ease, than join a group of lower skill level and have to do more work for their rewards and for the content.

Faked KP does not reflect a person's skill, either. I reckon the percentage of people faking KP is similar to those buying their titles.