No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?

[Cyninja.2954]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Going along that last post, I had a realization that some players might not know:

Running Fractal CMs is for some players their "open world farm"

. It certainly is for me. You won't see me farming open world meta events for hours on end to make gold (not judging, simply not something I do any more). Yes, I will aim to get achievements done on new maps, yes I will occasionally run a meta, but the majority of my game time is not centered around making gold in open world.

I make my gold from occasionally investing in the TP, running raids weekly and running Fractals when I feel like it, and I adjust my in-game spending accordingly. I know quite a lot of players who do the same or are in the same boat.

Having said that, think back on what happens in map chat when meta events fail, or only even take a slight moment longer (hello South Octovine), the chat often explodes. On content which is basically meaningless and the delay is only a few minutes on almost guaranteed rewards. Now translate that behavior to fractals and you might understand WHY some players enjoy a friction-less daily clear.

Dude I get frictionless daily clears by literally joining any CM T4 group with no requirements.

Like I don't think you 100+ ESS demand guys are realizing quite the speed that the large majority of players are at nowadays. This stuff is not hard, even for people who just play casually.

I'm not saying an ESS req is wrong. Play however you want man. Just try to actualize the reality vs. the placebo, of how much it actually matters and if it's worth segregating the player base over. But it's w/e man. To each his own.

And incase you were wondering,

I've been running CM fractals almost every night for just about 2 years now with the same 2 guys

.

Are you really comparing running a half static group to full PUG groups? You're not going to tell me how you are also running the support backbone and simply inviting dps players next are you? Yes, when we fill up our static due to missing members, it is a very different experience versus PUGing.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:In my opinion removing KPs will by far be the healthiest thing for GW2 end game pve in the long run. Even if it upsets the top 2% of the player base elites for awhile, that other 98% of the community is going to be having a lot more fun when they aren't being immediately judged all of the time. I know this for a fact because I see it nightly when I teach players CMs. They get to speak with people who are willing to have a human interaction with them and teach them something, and 9/10 times at the end, they are extremely grateful and you can tell they truly enjoyed their night of gaming.

All that can be achieved in guilds and discords. I agree, players should talk more to each other, and they can do so. I disagree that others should expect to get carried. If you want to do so for 2 years every night, that is nice, but not every player has the desire to spend days per year of their limited time on this world.

[Fangoth.4503]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Going along that last post, I had a realization that some players might not know:

Running Fractal CMs is for some players their "open world farm"

. It certainly is for me. You won't see me farming open world meta events for hours on end to make gold (not judging, simply not something I do any more). Yes, I will aim to get achievements done on new maps, yes I will occasionally run a meta, but the majority of my game time is not centered around making gold in open world.

I make my gold from occasionally investing in the TP, running raids weekly and running Fractals when I feel like it, and I adjust my in-game spending accordingly. I know quite a lot of players who do the same or are in the same boat.

Having said that, think back on what happens in map chat when meta events fail, or only even take a slight moment longer (hello South Octovine), the chat often explodes. On content which is basically meaningless and the delay is only a few minutes on almost guaranteed rewards. Now translate that behavior to fractals and you might understand WHY some players enjoy a friction-less daily clear.

Dude I get frictionless daily clears by literally joining any CM T4 group with no requirements.

Like I don't think you 100+ ESS demand guys are realizing quite the speed that the large majority of players are at nowadays. This stuff is not hard, even for people who just play casually.

I'm not saying an ESS req is wrong. Play however you want man. Just try to actualize the reality vs. the placebo, of how much it actually matters and if it's worth segregating the player base over. But it's w/e man. To each his own.

And incase you were wondering, I've been running CM fractals almost every night for just about 2 years now with the same 2 guys. We have plenty of ESS but ironically enough we just don't give a kitten about that. We create LFGs through our guild and teach & carry literally anyone who joins. We've become so proficient at the CMs that we could probably trio clear everything in the same time that it would take normal group to do with 5 people. I dunno man, when you get to that level, it feels like as a veteran, you owe the community some interaction. Consider it, because that is what this community is missing. It killed raids and it will kill fractals in the long run as well.

People come back and play games when they have the feeling of community and being accepted. They don't come back to an experience where everyone is encouraging the idea that they aren't good enough or aren't ready or never will be, and that no one wants to help them. The general design of GW2 promotes this kind of attitude & segregation during the end game content, which isn't good.

In my opinion removing KPs will by far be the healthiest thing for GW2 end game pve in the long run. Even if it upsets the top 2% of the player base elites for awhile, that other 98% of the community is going to be having a lot more fun when they aren't being immediately judged all of the time. I know this for a fact because I see it nightly when I teach players CMs. They get to speak with people who are willing to have a human interaction with them and teach them something, and 9/10 times at the end, they are extremely grateful and you can tell they truly enjoyed their night of gaming.

lets think about it for a sec, remove essences, what will change? nothing, even if you have no essences you already have access to the "advertise your group" function. if people are lacking interest in the content or if they are self-segregating themself its due to their choices. blaming these 2% because they enjoy the content differently than you do won't help much I'm afraid.And don't get me wrong i'm not saying what you're doing is wrong by helping new player, just remember that lfg is free for all so anyone can create the group they wish and there is more than enough space for all groups. (well at least i never saw any sign of lfg cap) as you are sayin they are 98% so out of their lfg it's pretty unlikely they end up with someone judging them.Gotta give it to you that like any other game the tool given to the community to organise training and such are very limited. there is a lot of communities willing to teach raid, fractal and such but nowhere to reference them in game. would be nice to kind of a board for guild in fractal/raid/strike hub where player can check for guild doing that content. unlikely to happen though.

If by any chance the 2% leave the game and that the 98% "take over" the lfg, those who start to get a catch of the mechs will want to get their reward more reliably at start to think of ways to get it daily without wasting too much on it. and back to square 1.Maybe removing any kind of rewards from raid or fractal would help but i'm affraid it would most likely end up being limited to ap hunting lfg.imo best would be for them to stop being affraid of opening an lfg. It's annonym for everyone, so if someone shout at you, ez block him, someone complain about the dps in your group that was named "5 healer CMs" kick and block him, nothing to be feared, just do what you want and enjoy it :) weirdly enough it will be much better for the game than saying its kp fault and give up before even trying.

reality vs placebo: i don't want to offend anyone but lets be honnest if players that are more looking into optimise run where always finding their shoes in 0kp cm run, well they wouldn't bother looking for kp, just have a look at t4 daily/recs, never a kp asked just food and pot. kp was (and still is) involving mostly 99cm and here and there you could see some for 98cm but was more rare.

[Armen.1483]

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

@Armen.1483 said:Now sadly all the new players won't be accepted to my parties because they have no unstable cosmic essences. Now this is unhealthy for the game, I am sorry that I have to do this.

Dont worry, your kind will be minority soon.What is my kind ? Are you trying to be... DISCRIMATORY ? =)

[Armen.1483]

Here is the response about the KP removal of one of our most valuable fractaleers.

[Fangoth.4503]

well an ideal kp would be something that can be every single encounter. if a player decide to kill 100CM 10 times in a day he sould receive 10times the kp instead of being timegated but yeah just having a useless item proper to a CM/all CM that always loot would be much more interesting but unfortunally i doubt they'll ever implement it. too bad because i do believe people learn out of their 10 run even if its within the same day

[lare.5129]

about hfb or any other full support on cms runs.as person wiht 1500+ old kp for me strange vision about '300+ is no heal'.Can I run whiteout it ? yes. Do I see any point to to that ? - no.I don't see point to make one cm mode inside standard cm mode and always run pt wiht support.for me more fun that chill and stablem but no 10 minutes.
And one more thing about time, how I check the diferences is 10-20 min on cms+t4. Ofc if bleed fire don't do impact ..But one thing - if you look on time, but not fun - so don't play games.

[RedCobra.7693]

Its rather funny and ironic that anet have "removed" the KP because it was discrimitory however old players are still asking for "old KP" meaning there is even less chance of newer players getting in to high end pug fractals lol. now they dont even have motivation. anet should have gone all in at least and force conversion of the old KP.

[Cyninja.2954]

@lare.5129 said:about hfb or any other full support on cms runs.as person wiht 1500+ old kp for me strange vision about '300+ is no heal'.Can I run whiteout it ? yes. Do I see any point to to that ? - no.I don't see point to make one cm mode inside standard cm mode and always run pt wiht support.for me more fun that chill and stablem but no 10 minutes.

And one more thing about time, how I check the diferences is 10-20 min on cms+t4. Ofc if bleed fire don't do impact ..But one thing - if you look on time, but not fun - so don't play games.

That's not the point.

The point is, players were and are able to run through 100 CM and 99CM without heal. You don't want to get that good or play that way, that is fine, no one is judging. Others do want to save the time, and were looking for similar minded players.

What you consider fun and chilled is your personal opinion.

[36F0A0BB-7480-4A73-8575-EE]

499 old kps still in my inventory, always hated 250+kp groups on lfg (they usually don't deliver), what i always do is post a100kp requisite for cms (the middle ground in my opinion, i usually accept 65 or 55 without complaining), unexperienced players can find their own training groups and have the humility to learn the content and their classes instead of lying and leeching. Pompous hardcore players lower their expectations in 100kp groups (or simply don't join if they want to break a non existent record).

New KPs are certainly not going to make me convert my old ones. And titles certainly don't represent a level of mastery (old cms or the new one).

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Dude I get frictionless daily clears by literally joining any CM T4 group with no requirements.

Like I don't think you 100+ ESS demand guys are realizing quite the speed that the large majority of players are at nowadays. This stuff is not hard, even for people who just play casually.

Ah, Anecdotes. This should be interesting.

I'm not saying an ESS req is wrong. Play however you want man. Just try to actualize the reality vs. the placebo, of how much it actually matters and if it's worth segregating the player base over. But it's w/e man. To each his own.

This is quite ironic.

And incase you were wondering, I've been running CM fractals almost every night for just about 2 years now with the same 2 guys.

Aaaand here it is.

We have plenty of ESS but ironically enough we just don't give a kitten about that. We create LFGs through our guild and teach & carry literally anyone who joins.

This is great, but you're also 3/5 players with lots of experience. So long as you've 2 supports giving good boons, consumables, and one really good DPS you can carry these fractals.

We've become so proficient at the CMs that we could probably trio clear everything in the same time that it would take normal group to do with 5 people.

Ah, yeah, see, you're not pugging. You're 3/5ths a static carrying 2 more people. This is the placebo you have.

I dunno man, when you get to that level, it feels like as a veteran, you owe the community some interaction. Consider it, because that is what this community is missing. It killed raids and it will kill fractals in the long run as well.

If we're going to play anecdotes, today I got a raid group going on the LFG with no real requirements and we one pulled Adina. This was at 6AM CST, outside of NA primetime. Raids are hardly dead, and people want to play with others who have experience and get a smooth clear with complete randoms, not 3/5ths (or in a raid's case, 6/10ths) of a static carrying hard because your average player who raids or does fractals just wants to clear the content as smoothly as possible.

People come back and play games when they have the feeling of community and being accepted. They don't come back to an experience where everyone is encouraging the idea that they aren't good enough or aren't ready or never will be, and that no one wants to help them. The general design of GW2 promotes this kind of attitude & segregation during the end game content, which isn't good.

This community are exactly what guilds are for. The LFG is for finding temporary groups for content, not judging the community as a whole. Also, anyone can make a group on the LFG. That's the glory o the system, though sometimes you do and groups are up for hours on end because of the time of day.

In my opinion removing KPs will by far be the healthiest thing for GW2 end game pve in the long run.

Yeah, sure, if they didn't do half a job of removing KP, it'd have actually worked, but they made it optional to turn it in instead of just converting all essence into the new currency immediately. This made people hang onto it and now there's an exclusive group that anyone who had no essence before can never join, ever, even if they put forth the effort to do so.

Even if it upsets the top 2% of the player base elites for awhile, that other 98% of the community is going to be having a lot more fun when they aren't being immediately judged all of the time.

Odd, they weren't being judged to begin with. Does a job posting that's asking for 2 years experience in a relevant field judge the people who don't have that? No, sane people see that it requires that experience and, if they don't have it, they leave and look for something else or go get that experience. I'm pretty sure even you went out of your way to get experienced at CMs before joining higher requirement groups.

I know this for a fact because I see it nightly when I teach players CMs. They get to speak with people who are willing to have a human interaction with them and teach them something, and 9/10 times at the end, they are extremely grateful and you can tell they truly enjoyed their night of gaming.

More anecdotes. I'll counter with some of my own then; I've joined low Ess groups before and have had people, despite telling them (Hit Solar Blooms Clockwise, skull to anom and stick in bubble, clockwise at Siax, spread for Ensolys 66%/33%) they repeatedly don't do that and cause wipes at worst or die early at best. It's not even a language barrier issue as I demonstrate the strategy visually as well post wipe so they can have the best chance at understanding what I'm asking of them and they still fail. High essence groups are trying to weed out people who refuse to listen, can't listen, or don't want to learn and signify to others that these people know the fight and will have the highest chance at getting a smooth, speedy clear.

[Talindra.4958]

I think the kp goes into the inventory is a great change.I advertise for CMs + T4 & Recs | DwD/DoD + 200kps /raid title/infusions| professions ..etc etc |I mean even 50 or 100 kp is good enough to show the player can play as a team at cms generally.

players can advertise from LFG more players training for 100cm 99 or 98 cms. I also see a lot of CMs asking for title only... you can always advertise as

CMs + T4 & Recs | DwD/DoD | Professions etc | you will get players to join.