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the grind for mounts needs to be toned down

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  • @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    ^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

    i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

  • @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    There was only one founder associated with Guild Wars 2 since before launch, Mike O'Brien, and he left less than a year ago (after all other Mounts).
    So, except for Skimmer underwater, all mount acquisitions are sans 'grind', if this is an accurate assessment.

  • scerevisiae.1972scerevisiae.1972 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    ^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

    i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

    Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

    there's heaps of pay2win.

    all the account upgrades, extra bag slots, bank slots, trading/crafting hubs, unbreakable gathering tools with glyphs, permanent bank access & teleports, numerous boosters, etc etc, the list goes on.

    it's not reasonably possible to buy all that with gold because of the massive time investment involved and the deliberately huge tax on gold->gems/gems ->gold conversions.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Excursion.9752 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:
    Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

    I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

    if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.

    The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

    i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.
    again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

    And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

    But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

    So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

    Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

    For collections: you can always check the wiki to see what you need to do/where you need to go/what you need to take with you (if relevant).

    Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

    If all the "grind" that various people have complained about, not just you, in these forums, the game would be:
    Purchase game.
    Get everything immediately upon entering the game.
    The end.

  • @Hesione.9412 said:

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

    And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

    But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

    So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

    Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

    Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

    They actually are for a lot of group content (Dragonfall meta in particular), in which not having a flying mount makes you unable to get to certain bosses by the time they're killed without having to camp each one for hours before the boss/meta resets. Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

  • jokke.6239jokke.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been "grinding" for the skyscale this last week. I'm on the last collection now.
    I heard so many people say it was this awful grind.
    It's been nothing but fun so far, and haven't taken that long.
    I'm at 200 mats on one season 4 currency and about 100 in the rest of them, won't take to long to get it done.
    Sure I've been playing a lot too though, but even if you play just a bit everyday it's still not that hard to get done.

  • jokke.6239jokke.6239 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    ^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

    i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

    Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

    there's heaps of pay2win.

    all the account upgrades, extra bag slots, bank slots, trading/crafting hubs, unbreakable gathering tools with glyphs, permanent bank access & teleports, numerous boosters, etc etc, the list goes on.

    it's not reasonably possible to buy all that with gold because of the massive time investment involved and the deliberately huge tax on gold->gems/gems ->gold conversions.

    If making the progress of earning gold more convinient is pay2win in your eyes, then why isn't your argument centered around gem>gold conversion? Buying QoL items will usually just LOSE you gold (compared to using those gem to turn into gold instead). It's just there to make the game more convinient.
    But none of those will give you an advantage in vertical progression. What exactly are you winning?
    How can you win over others when getting best in slot gear is easily available to all players?

  • Mounts should stay as they are. They are earned as a rite of passage. You just play the game and get them. They only feel grindy when you expect to earn one in a day instead of knowing it will be a challenge in time and/or gold. Gold=Time. Relax and enjoy the main goal of GW2, exploration and fights.

    When the Ascended gear was first introduced, it sapped a lot of the fun out of the game for me as I struggled to earn the mats. When I stopped forcing it and enjoyed the game, the next thing I knew I had what I needed without feeling pressured.

    Pay2Win is when you can buy items that make your toon stronger. Gems -> Gold is the closest thing we have to that but the expense is sorta high for the casual player. Even so, getting gold faster mostly lets you get gear faster. There are very few items that can be bought with gold that make your character stronger. The only one that
    comes to mind is the variety of specialized infusions that include a stat.

    The closest items for an 'advantage' are some of the glyphs that give SIGNIFICANT boosts to farming drops. (hint: check out Tailor, Leather, and Alchemy) The boost is only extra income.

    Moral Statute Machine: John Spartan, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The sky scale was annoying at times, bit I did it over a few weeks and it wasn't too bad. It's long time goals. Don't try to do it in 1 afternoon.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Poormany.4507 said:

    @Hesione.9412 said:

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

    And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

    But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

    So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

    Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

    Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

    They actually are for a lot of group content (Dragonfall meta in particular), in which not having a flying mount makes you unable to get to certain bosses by the time they're killed without having to camp each one for hours before the boss/meta resets. Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

    People who want to repeatedly (not necessarily during one session!) play a meta that goes for over an hour each time haven't got the time to work towards flying mounts, particularly the skyscale? There are skyscales available to borrow on the map.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hesione.9412 said:

    @Poormany.4507 said:

    @Hesione.9412 said:

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

    And that's the thing that we need to distinguish: 2 million XP is not a grind. It is simply playing the game. You can choose to kill mobs (eat or drink something that boosts XP from kills first), you can choose to explore maps, you can do anything you would ALREADY be doing. If that's a grind, then the whole game is a grind.

    But when getting a mount depends on doing things that hardly anybody does, so ANet makes it part of the mount collection to force folks to do it, THAT is a grind. When you have to collect a specific object that's a rare drop, that's a grind. When you have to follow really obscure clues, that's a grind. You're forced to do things that you would ONLY do because of the mount collection.

    So yea, following a bunch of obscure clues to a couple dozen locations and collecting rare drops is a painful grind. But playing the game and gaining XP is NOT a grind. (At least no more than anything else.) I got most of my 2M XP by running around and exploring the map on a couple of characters, plus some experimenting with a couple of builds and killing lots of mobs. And magically, in two or three days, I got 2M XP.

    Anything in the game can be called a "grind". Leveling to 80 - a "grind". Leveling masteries - a "grind". Leveling crafting - a "grind". Making weapons/armour - a "grind". And so forth. This is the least grinding MMO I have played.

    Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

    They actually are for a lot of group content (Dragonfall meta in particular), in which not having a flying mount makes you unable to get to certain bosses by the time they're killed without having to camp each one for hours before the boss/meta resets. Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

    People who want to repeatedly (not necessarily during one session!) play a meta that goes for over an hour each time haven't got the time to work towards flying mounts, particularly the skyscale? There are skyscales available to borrow on the map.

    This. The only map I would consider needs a skyscale so far is in the Dragonfall meta, but you can unlock the skyscale rentals available at several spots on the map on each character by completing a few steps of the map story. A skyscale is convenient in the south Drizzlewood cache keeper runs, but not necessary since you can use the united legions waystations to port to different places immediately on the map.

  • @Poormany.4507 said:
    Locking them behind heavy (and largely unnecessary - looking at skyscale map currency step) grind excludes players who either do not have the time for it, or just aren't interested in spending days/hours repeating the same content.

    oh that huge grind of buying 5 of each currency each day in dragonfall that takes days repeating the same content.
    it's not the achievement that is a grind, it is you who makes it a grind. i simply didn't and still had my skyscale pretty fast, just as all the other mounts.

    even if you really only do the dragonfall purchases that is 50 days, less than 2 months. for the bare minimum and starting at literal zero (which i bet you don't as you had to at least do story and surely got some currencies) you need less than 2 months. anything more and you drastically reduce that, one heart? down to 1 month. maybe an event or two, just the little ones, those that are done fast. farm a node additionally and oh it is only a couple of days.

    the only stupid grindy things are map-skipping achievements (skyscale flight) or search achievements with no hint (skyscale eggs) - those are just a wiki fiesta and no fun at all.

  • What I don't like about these kind of grinds in general is that it's ALL about time-investment. That is the only aspect that is required to get something, no skill at all is needed especially when it comes to unlocking the mounts.

    Sure, grinding is a big part of any MMORPG but that doesn't mean any sort of skill should be ignored. If you are a skilled player, most MMOs reward you for that and as a result reduce the grind. Being able to farm UW for ectos back in the good old GW1 days required skill and the better you knew your build and what, when and how to pull rewarded you - or killed you if you lacked this knowledge.

    The way GW2 handles such things is basically; You need 250x of each map currencies but we will only allow you to get X of each per day. Or collect these 30 things across the whole map, wait 2 hours and repeat a few times. The result is that players are forced to log in over the next few days or even weeks and that's it. No skill at all is required, the only goal is to get people to log in on a daily base. Same with daily crafting materials, the purpose is to get people into that daily routine - which almost feels like a job if we're honest.

    It's a bit sad to see that skill is mostly irrelevant and only the time you spend doing something has actual value.

    Varg Blutaar

  • Is only a grind when you rush it.

  • @Pii.8574 said:
    What I don't like about these kind of grinds in general is that it's ALL about time-investment. That is the only aspect that is required to get something, no skill at all is needed especially when it comes to unlocking the mounts.

    Sure, grinding is a big part of any MMORPG but that doesn't mean any sort of skill should be ignored. If you are a skilled player, most MMOs reward you for that and as a result reduce the grind. Being able to farm UW for ectos back in the good old GW1 days required skill and the better you knew your build and what, when and how to pull rewarded you - or killed you if you lacked this knowledge.

    The way GW2 handles such things is basically; You need 250x of each map currencies but we will only allow you to get X of each per day. Or collect these 30 things across the whole map, wait 2 hours and repeat a few times. The result is that players are forced to log in over the next few days or even weeks and that's it. No skill at all is required, the only goal is to get people to log in on a daily base. Same with daily crafting materials, the purpose is to get people into that daily routine - which almost feels like a job if we're honest.

    It's a bit sad to see that skill is mostly irrelevant and only the time you spend doing something has actual value.

    Needing map currencies is not a secret, if you have played through all the previous content before even starting the skyscale collection you should have been aware of this and start collecting the map currencies as you progress through the story you can casually collect it all. But sure, if you don't and then finally get to the saddle part and need to collect 6 stacks total you create this so called grind all on your accord. I guess people who skip skip through everything to get to the Skyscale run into this wall and then moan about how grindy this game is........

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Griffon and Skyscale are meant to be end game reward missions. The roller beetle was fast and easy to get. So fast and easy that you could do it in an afternoon if you got the timing in the metas right anyway. To me, it sounds like people complaining about playing a game. That is the game. Nope, I sorta like it how it is. As for the new mastery, that took very very little time, and all I did was stack buffs and kill creatures with high bonus experience.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2020

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    ^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

    i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

    Ncsoft the parent company that owns Anet are very big on mobile gaming, where the design is grind or pay money to avoid said grind.. I'm betting a lot of these mechanics were added on behest of Ncsoft.

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    ^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

    i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

    Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

    Stash and Bag space... Laugh but it does make you better over time..

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:
    Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

    I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

    if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.

    The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

    i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.
    again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)

    Another Legendary Credit Card thread basically. If you put half the effort in into getting the skyscale as you did in this thread you would have had it by now. You're basically asking to buy an achievement and that is a slippery slope if you ever do get your wish.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Blockhead Magee.3092Blockhead Magee.3092 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2020

    With the exception of two wvw titles (Ultimate Dominator and Diamond Legend) there is nothing in GW2 that even approaches grindy.

  • Nubarus.9268Nubarus.9268 Member ✭✭
    edited September 21, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    ^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

    i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

    Ncsoft the parent company that owns Anet are very big on mobile gaming, where the design is grind or pay money to avoid said grind.. I'm betting a lot of these mechanics were added on behest of Ncsoft.

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    ^this. i feel like the whole game has turned into a grind, and is increasingly heading down the pay-to-win direction with account upgrades.

    i think the core problem is, low replayability of content. WVW has the most replaybility due to its sandbox nature but has virtually no new content in years.

    Pay to win? Name one item that you can buy from the gems store that makes your character better than other players their character. And you can obtain every single item in the gems store without paying a dime in real money.

    Stash and Bag space... Laugh but it does make you better over time..

    Bag space is not pay2win and yes I am still laughing about how you think that it makes you a better player over time. I always carry salvage packs with me and salvage/deposit as I go along. So having less bag space made me better at managing my storage space over time. So far I have not had to add another bag to any of my characters though. By your logic someone who uses game gold to buy size 20 bags is paying to win or what?

  • Bag space are not p2w, that's simple quality of life. I guess Legendaries however can be considered pay2win because what would usually take hundreds of hours to get can be bought in a few minutes via gem store -> gems into gold -> trading post.

    Varg Blutaar

  • Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

    So... many... berries

  • Druitt.7629Druitt.7629 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2020

    Um

    @Hesione.9412 said:

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

    Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

    If all the "grind" that various people have complained about, not just you, in these forums, the game would be:
    Purchase game.
    Get everything immediately upon entering the game.
    The end.

    I was actually arguing against the original poster and making the case that this is either: a) not a grind at all, or b) not the soul-killing grind that they described. I made very clear that gaining 2 million XP is not a grind. As I said, that's "playing the game". So your argument is not with me.

    I did not get the Skyscale anywhere near when it came out. As you say, it's not compulsory. But I did find certain events that were required -- but out of the way and it's rare that people do them -- a grind. It's unpleasant trying to wrangle people to help you, or parking a character at an event and checking in again and again to see if someone else has finally started it.

    Having to follow a guide is a grind, honestly. I tried to do the underwater mount thing on my own, but the hints were so obscure that I put it aside until a guide came out. So, to be honest, a quest chain that someone has to explain even where to go is painful and NOT just playing the game. I don't expect anyone to hand me anything, but I also don't expect to be forced to access third-party guides to even have a clue what's going on. I accept that if I want to be GOOD at a fractal or something, having an explanation of roles and mechanics is quite useful, but it's just not good design if I'd need to have a third-party guide to even know where the fractal is.

    I have all mounts -- except the Warclaw, since I don't PvP and only dabble in WvW -- and I earned them. Your criticism is misguided.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    Um

    @Hesione.9412 said:

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

    Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

    If all the "grind" that various people have complained about, not just you, in these forums, the game would be:
    Purchase game.
    Get everything immediately upon entering the game.
    The end.

    I was actually arguing against the original poster and making the case that this is either: a) not a grind at all, or b) not the soul-killing grind that they described. I made very clear that gaining 2 million XP is not a grind. As I said, that's "playing the game". So your argument is not with me.

    I did not get the Skyscale anywhere near when it came out. As you say, it's not compulsory. But I did find certain events that were required -- but out of the way and it's rare that people do them -- a grind. It's unpleasant trying to wrangle people to help you, or parking a character at an event and checking in again and again to see if someone else has finally started it.

    Having to follow a guide is a grind, honestly. I tried to do the underwater mount thing on my own, but the hints were so obscure that I put it aside until a guide came out. So, to be honest, a quest chain that someone has to explain even where to go is painful and NOT just playing the game. I don't expect anyone to hand me anything, but I also don't expect to be forced to access third-party guides to even have a clue what's going on. I accept that if I want to be GOOD at a fractal or something, having an explanation of roles and mechanics is quite useful, but it's just not good design if I'd need to have a third-party guide to even know where the fractal is.

    I have all mounts -- except the Warclaw, since I don't PvP and only dabble in WvW -- and I earned them. Your criticism is misguided.

    Hey there, I'm a little confused. In the post I replied to, to which you quoted my reply above (and yes, it IS in context), you said some things were a grind and others weren't. In this comment you also seem to say some things are a grind and some things aren't.

    For example, your first paragraph suggests there is no soul-killing grind for mounts. But your second paragraph seems to agree that at least some of the activities to get a mount (or a mount mastery, in the case of the skimmer) are a grind.

    I'm lost as to why following a guide is a grind.

    One recommendation I have, and to anyone else reading that feels the same way re guides and not understanding some game content, is to join an active guild that does the activities you do (PvE, WvW, PvP). This does make the game so much easier.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

    So... many... berries

    this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

  • @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

    So... many... berries

    this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

    It's also less of a "grind" if you spread your gathering over several of the living world maps and collect the currencies.

  • the only thing I hate about some collections on gw2 are timegates, im happy with the ones used to introduce some value in gold but skyscale food being timegated to feed was just ridiculous, i think anet need to understand that you have bursts of motivation for large grinds and being timegated is just exhausting especially when i dont get much windows to play the game. some weeks i'll be able to play 50 hours, some weeks i can only play one. time gates where there to keep the secrecy on release for a short while once that period is over they should remove the timegate

    Always be rootin, always be tootin, and by golly always be shootin.

  • @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

    So... many... berries

    this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

    I have 8 characters I do it with, but that means that many more to gear up! :lol:

  • @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

    So... many... berries

    this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

    It's also less of a "grind" if you spread your gathering over several of the living world maps and collect the currencies.

    I've been thinking of that recently. I've used difluorite from Sandswept Isle for the paired items that can't be identical, but haven't tried any other zones. From doing the Skyscale, I know the season 4 areas, and Dragonfall has an option for trinkets, but the others don't. I don't really know the season 3 zones well as I've only been in them long enough to story through.

    I read everywhere that Winterberries are the easiest, so I've been concentrating on that but have been thinking it would be good to go elsewhere to break up the monotony. Which LS3 zones would you say are second or third best after Bitterfrost for farming? I did try Ember Bay briefly for the accessory available there, but it was a pain to do the route (no thermal tube mastery yet) and returned so few petrified wood for an entire run that I quickly abandoned it.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait, people try to call the new mastery for the skimmer "a grind" now? :lol:

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2020

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

    There is a great option for people like you: stay in core. You don't need mounts, gliding, new zones/content or ramping difficulty levels. Just stay in core zones and apparently that's all you need in this game. People complaining about needing to actually play through the game's content to get new toys is some next level kitten to me.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Excursion.9752 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:
    Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

    I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

    if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.

    The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

    i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.
    again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)

    Another Legendary Credit Card thread basically. If you put half the effort in into getting the skyscale as you did in this thread you would have had it by now. You're basically asking to buy an achievement and that is a slippery slope if you ever do get your wish.

    you're funny, you think i have that much time and you even compare the 5 minutes of forum time to a 4 full day dedication.
    if it was really that easy i would've had it by now, if it was like the griffin (minus the facet) i would've had it by now.
    but no, i have to have a full stack of zone exclusive materials X4 with the timing behind it plus all the achievements attached to it, that is to me a huge grind only meant for overly dedicated ppl.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • No grind at all, please.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Looking over this thread and some others such as the ones about skyscale's currency items, the real problem for the people complaining seems more like the fact that neither PoF nor the LS4 maps are actually interesting to play in.

    "Grind" is just the symptom of a lack of interest in the content. Why are people forcing themselves to play a game they don't even like? O_o

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Excursion.9752 said:
    Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

    I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

    if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.

    The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

    i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.
    again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)

    Another Legendary Credit Card thread basically. If you put half the effort in into getting the skyscale as you did in this thread you would have had it by now. You're basically asking to buy an achievement and that is a slippery slope if you ever do get your wish.

    you're funny, you think i have that much time and you even compare the 5 minutes of forum time to a 4 full day dedication.
    if it was really that easy i would've had it by now, if it was like the griffin (minus the facet) i would've had it by now.
    but no, i have to have a full stack of zone exclusive materials X4 with the timing behind it plus all the achievements attached to it, that is to me a huge grind only meant for overly dedicated ppl.

    It was a figure of speech. I was implying that you are dedicating your energy in a negative way and it needs to be redirected towards actually going after what you want. Clearly this is not going to change. Tons of people have obtained the mount and changing it now would cause an uproar. They already made some decent changes since the initial release and you should be thankful for where its at today. It used to take longer.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As stated numerous times. The skyscale and griffin are luxury mounts. They are not needed for completing the game. But long term goals. And its so much easier now to get the currencies needed. Just make the effort, its not as hard as you make it out to be.

  • SpinDashMaster.5680SpinDashMaster.5680 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2020

    @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I have been an avid Guild wars player since guild wars 1. Over time the mount unlocking in this game has become worse and worse to the point where even just unlocking the new mastery for one of the oldest mounts in the game has become a grind with the XP requirement. The world trek-ing the figure out where the clues lead was enough but tacking the extra XP requirement after all of that is just too much. I could understand if all the mounts were always of use but so many replace others making them useless that making such a grind for a mount that would be useless after another one releases that does its job better makes no sense to me. There are MMO players from Super grindy MMO's like WoW and BDO even saying that they would rather do crazy grindy things in those games than deal with the way guild wars 2 handles mount grinding.

    And I know what people will say to this already. They will make the same tired excuses for why Anet decided to handle mount unlocks such as Griffon, Rollerbeetle, SKyscale, and even the new MASTERY(which isn't even a new mount)for the skimmer. I guarantee the next expansion will have a new mount that makes all those other listed ones that you spent all your time grinding for obsolete.

    and then there are those that have them saying that you don't need them whilst they fly away leaving you behind in map runs because the Original 4 mounts cant keep up with the newer ones thus the game tries to force you into participating in the long boring several day time gated rng based grind for the newer mounts.

    Wait a minute.

    Does this complaint just basically boil down to

    xp is too hard to grind?

    Because I can tell you right now it's not. Even the new Skimmer mastery, which takes a little over 1 million XP to grind out, is stupidly easy to grind. Here's what you do:

    1) eat food.
    2) Use a utility, like a Sharpening Stone.
    3) Pop Birthday or celebration boosters
    4) Pop a Black lion booster
    5) pop an XP booster
    6) Fire off some Lucky Draketails.
    7) Go to a guild hall and grab your XP enhancement
    8) Put an experience enrichment in your amulet
    9) Pop a Heroes Banner
    10) Pop a spirit Banner

    11) Skip any of the above steps if you dont have or dont feel like grabbing some of them

    12) Go to places that don't have foot traffic and kill neutral (Yellow name) mobs or mobs that you think people haven't killed in a while. The longer a killable target exists on a map, the larger its XP bonus becomes.
    (In the case of PoF, the subject of your complaint, you can try the elevated areas of Istan. Bet you you're not going to find people on that dead map in the first place, let alone the areas that have nothing to do with either meta event.)

    Ta da. 1 mil+ XP for about under an hour of your time.

  • @Gibson.4036 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

    So... many... berries

    this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

    It's also less of a "grind" if you spread your gathering over several of the living world maps and collect the currencies.

    I've been thinking of that recently. I've used difluorite from Sandswept Isle for the paired items that can't be identical, but haven't tried any other zones. From doing the Skyscale, I know the season 4 areas, and Dragonfall has an option for trinkets, but the others don't. I don't really know the season 3 zones well as I've only been in them long enough to story through.

    I read everywhere that Winterberries are the easiest, so I've been concentrating on that but have been thinking it would be good to go elsewhere to break up the monotony. Which LS3 zones would you say are second or third best after Bitterfrost for farming? I did try Ember Bay briefly for the accessory available there, but it was a pain to do the route (no thermal tube mastery yet) and returned so few petrified wood for an entire run that I quickly abandoned it.

    Lake Doric & Bloodstone Fen are good spots too. They are also great for mats farming since White Mantle loot bags have good resource loot. There is also the Lake Doric leather run and doing events and hearts in Lake Doric is easy and you can buy the map currency with Karma. Gathering Bloodstone Rubies is easy too when you have flying mounts. I also follow the LW daily and pick some extra currencies from them. I got well over 250 or 500 currencies from all LW maps without grinding for them. Berries are indeed the easiest to get but farming them endlessly is really grinding my gears............The only items I get from them is the ascended breathers for all my 9 characters.

  • Re: Experience - I found completing the pet treat achievements fun, and got a good chunk of experience for my skimmer underwater mastery just consuming the treats. There is a time gate, since you can only feed each pet once per day, but since there's no big hurry to get the underwater mastery it just became something I did each day I logged on that took a minute or so.

    Re: Left behind on map runs - The only time I've ever been left behind on a map run before I got the skyscale and beetle was due to getting into combat with a random enemy. People vastly overestimate how the beetle and skyscale work before they have them. The skyscale is super slow and has a very limited altitude before you have to land or wall cling into jump. As long as you have the basic mounts keybound well you can switch between raptor and springer and cover the same ground.

    The beetle I find highly situational. It's a terrible mount in tricky terrain. Small barriers can completely sap all of your speed and leave you slowly crawling up a hill waiting for endurance to reset.

    They're both great mounts for what they do, and I'm glad I got them, but it's a real credit to the game designers that neither outclasses the previous mounts.

  • WorldofBay.8160WorldofBay.8160 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    let's add some raw numbers to this discussion regarding the "EXP grind":

    instant leveling via prestored EXP as our basic numbers because no random EXP amounts involved:
    to instantly level a basic mount to level 3 you need 110 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.
    for a luxury mount (skyscale, beetle, griffin) you need 148 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.
    for basic mount 4 you need additional 97 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.
    for skimmer 5 you need 158 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.
    mount treats are worth 3 chests.
    1 chest = 12,700 EXP

    actual leveling has other sources, calculated roughly in our currency of "LS4 daily chests":
    hearts are worth less than 2 chests [~20k EXP] (but heart activities give EXP so it is actually more than 2).
    most events (including bounties) are worth slightly more than 2 chests [~26k EXP] (but event activities give EXP so it's even more).
    dailies provide 3 chests (but daily activities give EXP, so 1 daily > 3 chests).

    raptor has a unique EXP distrubution but the same overall cost until level 4, level 1-3 are cheaper and the amount they're cheaper is put into level 4 to equal it out.

    now anyone can consider themselves if this is a grind or not. i think not. by far.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I do not do collections. I do not mind grind if it is fun. Boring go hear and pick that + poorly designed events. And, I have not done/finished many LW episodes and never will, cuz they suck. I much rather play a different game or watch TV. So... no thanks.

    Also, I have to echo this:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

    Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

    Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.

    I can agree with this, but not limit it to just those two mounts. IMO, new maps should account for raptor, springer, skimmer and jackal. If a player has mounts beyond those four, then kudos to them.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • @kharmin.7683 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

    Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.

    I can agree with this, but not limit it to just those two mounts. IMO, new maps should account for raptor, springer, skimmer and jackal. If a player has mounts beyond those four, then kudos to them.

    that + mushrooms + gliding (except ley-line unless thematically fitting) + rare griffin spots that can be reached by griffin or basic mounts + bond of faith or skyscale

  • Nubarus.9268Nubarus.9268 Member ✭✭
    edited September 24, 2020

    @otto.5684 said:
    I do not do collections. I do not mind grind if it is fun. Boring go hear and pick that + poorly designed events. And, I have not done/finished many LW episodes and never will, cuz they suck. I much rather play a different game or watch TV. So... no thanks.

    Also, I have to echo this:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

    Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.

    That is complete rubbish. The mounts were added to navigate the maps better and has a curve when you move ahead. If you skip all the previous content with the mounts and their masteries as well as the glider and then dive straight into Drizzlewood with just basic gliding and basic mounts you cannot cry wolf when other players move faster over the map than you. A good example is updrafts since basic gliding cannot use that so you saying there should be no updraft on new maps because it makes players with basic gliding feel left behind............

  • Seems to me that since the game is designed as a progression of story, ANet should be able to assume completion of all previous expansion story content in designing new maps. I'd leave out Living Story/World because those are presented as something you get if you are around, and an optional extra if you weren't during their release window.

    That means ANet should be able to assume gliding, updraft, jumping mushrooms, raptor, canyon jumping, skimmer, ride the wind, springer, and high jump for future content. I'm not sure about jackal and shifting sands, because they seemed like they came across as optional extras when I ran through PoF.

    Why should ANet design around the assumption that players skipped all preivous content?