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the grind for mounts needs to be toned down


KAipurge.2147

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Um

@Hesione.9412 said:

@"Druitt.7629" said:I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

If all the "grind" that various people have complained about, not just you, in these forums, the game would be:Purchase game.Get everything immediately upon entering the game.The end.

I was actually arguing against the original poster and making the case that this is either: a) not a grind at all, or b) not the soul-killing grind that they described. I made very clear that gaining 2 million XP is not a grind. As I said, that's "playing the game". So your argument is not with me.

I did not get the Skyscale anywhere near when it came out. As you say, it's not compulsory. But I did find certain events that were required -- but out of the way and it's rare that people do them -- a grind. It's unpleasant trying to wrangle people to help you, or parking a character at an event and checking in again and again to see if someone else has finally started it.

Having to follow a guide is a grind, honestly. I tried to do the underwater mount thing on my own, but the hints were so obscure that I put it aside until a guide came out. So, to be honest, a quest chain that someone has to explain even where to go is painful and NOT just playing the game. I don't expect anyone to hand me anything, but I also don't expect to be forced to access third-party guides to even have a clue what's going on. I accept that if I want to be GOOD at a fractal or something, having an explanation of roles and mechanics is quite useful, but it's just not good design if I'd need to have a third-party guide to even know where the fractal is.

I have all mounts -- except the Warclaw, since I don't PvP and only dabble in WvW -- and I earned them. Your criticism is misguided.

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@Druitt.7629 said:Um

@Druitt.7629 said:I hated the grind for the Skyscale and Beetle. The grind for the underwater ability was not bad at all. Just play the game, basically.

Mounts aren't compulsory, you can play the game without them. They are QoL.

If all the "grind" that various people have complained about, not just you, in these forums, the game would be:Purchase game.Get everything immediately upon entering the game.The end.

I was actually arguing
against
the original poster and making the case that this is either: a) not a grind at all, or b) not the soul-killing grind that they described. I made very clear that gaining 2 million XP is
not
a grind. As I said, that's "playing the game". So your argument is not with me.

I did not get the Skyscale anywhere near when it came out. As you say, it's not compulsory. But I did find certain events that were required -- but out of the way and it's rare that people do them -- a grind. It's unpleasant trying to wrangle people to help you, or parking a character at an event and checking in again and again to see if someone else has finally started it.

Having to follow a guide is a grind, honestly. I tried to do the underwater mount thing on my own, but the hints were so obscure that I put it aside until a guide came out. So, to be honest, a quest chain that someone has to explain even where to go is painful and NOT just playing the game. I don't expect anyone to hand me anything, but I also don't expect to be forced to access third-party guides to even have a clue what's going on. I accept that if I want to be GOOD at a fractal or something, having an explanation of roles and mechanics is quite useful, but it's just not good design if I'd need to have a third-party guide to even know where the fractal is.

I have all mounts -- except the Warclaw, since I don't PvP and only dabble in WvW -- and I earned them. Your criticism is misguided.

Hey there, I'm a little confused. In the post I replied to, to which you quoted my reply above (and yes, it IS in context), you said some things were a grind and others weren't. In this comment you also seem to say some things are a grind and some things aren't.

For example, your first paragraph suggests there is no soul-killing grind for mounts. But your second paragraph seems to agree that at least some of the activities to get a mount (or a mount mastery, in the case of the skimmer) are a grind.

I'm lost as to why following a guide is a grind.

One recommendation I have, and to anyone else reading that feels the same way re guides and not understanding some game content, is to join an active guild that does the activities you do (PvE, WvW, PvP). This does make the game so much easier.

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@Astyrah.4015 said:

@"Gibson.4036" said:Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

So... many... berries

this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

It's also less of a "grind" if you spread your gathering over several of the living world maps and collect the currencies.

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the only thing I hate about some collections on gw2 are timegates, im happy with the ones used to introduce some value in gold but skyscale food being timegated to feed was just ridiculous, i think anet need to understand that you have bursts of motivation for large grinds and being timegated is just exhausting especially when i dont get much windows to play the game. some weeks i'll be able to play 50 hours, some weeks i can only play one. time gates where there to keep the secrecy on release for a short while once that period is over they should remove the timegate

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@Astyrah.4015 said:

@"Gibson.4036" said:Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

So... many... berries

this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

I have 8 characters I do it with, but that means that many more to gear up! :lol:

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@Nubarus.9268 said:

@"Gibson.4036" said:Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

So... many... berries

this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

It's also less of a "grind" if you spread your gathering over several of the living world maps and collect the currencies.

I've been thinking of that recently. I've used difluorite from Sandswept Isle for the paired items that can't be identical, but haven't tried any other zones. From doing the Skyscale, I know the season 4 areas, and Dragonfall has an option for trinkets, but the others don't. I don't really know the season 3 zones well as I've only been in them long enough to story through.

I read everywhere that Winterberries are the easiest, so I've been concentrating on that but have been thinking it would be good to go elsewhere to break up the monotony. Which LS3 zones would you say are second or third best after Bitterfrost for farming? I did try Ember Bay briefly for the accessory available there, but it was a pain to do the route (no thermal tube mastery yet) and returned so few petrified wood for an entire run that I quickly abandoned it.

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@KAipurge.2147 said:I feel like this all started once the original Anet founders left.

There is a great option for people like you: stay in core. You don't need mounts, gliding, new zones/content or ramping difficulty levels. Just stay in core zones and apparently that's all you need in this game. People complaining about needing to actually play through the game's content to get new toys is some next level kitten to me.

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@Excursion.9752 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)Another Legendary Credit Card thread basically. If you put half the effort in into getting the skyscale as you did in this thread you would have had it by now. You're basically asking to buy an achievement and that is a slippery slope if you ever do get your wish.

you're funny, you think i have that much time and you even compare the 5 minutes of forum time to a 4 full day dedication.if it was really that easy i would've had it by now, if it was like the griffin (minus the facet) i would've had it by now.but no, i have to have a full stack of zone exclusive materials X4 with the timing behind it plus all the achievements attached to it, that is to me a huge grind only meant for overly dedicated ppl.

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@sorudo.9054 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)Another Legendary Credit Card thread basically. If you put half the effort in into getting the skyscale as you did in this thread you would have had it by now. You're basically asking to buy an achievement and that is a slippery slope if you ever do get your wish.

you're funny, you think i have that much time and you even compare the 5 minutes of forum time to a 4 full day dedication.if it was really that easy i would've had it by now, if it was like the griffin (minus the facet) i would've had it by now.but no, i have to have a full stack of zone exclusive materials X4 with the timing behind it plus all the achievements attached to it, that is to me a huge grind only meant for overly dedicated ppl.

If you don't have time to play the game then I guess you shouldn't be playing it? And I think most importantly: nothing about this griffon/skyscale grind tells you to try and farm it out all in one sitting.Your complaint seems to be pretty much "I don't want to do stuff, but I want to be rewarded for the stuff I don't do!". That's pretty silly. You absolutely do not need any of those "special" mounts. But if you want them, then there's something you have to do ingame. The currency isn't that hard to get if you do the node runs and daily hearts.Not much time to play? -great, completing hearts doesn't take long."BUT I DON'T WANNA!" ? -well then, no mount for you, enjoy the rest of the content with your perfectly viable-for-any-task set of base mounts.

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Looking over this thread and some others such as the ones about skyscale's currency items, the real problem for the people complaining seems more like the fact that neither PoF nor the LS4 maps are actually interesting to play in.

"Grind" is just the symptom of a lack of interest in the content. Why are people forcing themselves to play a game they don't even like? O_o

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@sorudo.9054 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:Its just another I wanna skip the line threads... I guess we should all be able to login with a new character that is level 80 that is fully equipped with legendary everything, All mounts, all elite specs unlocked, full mastery unlocks, all maps fully complete, all titles available, all crafts maxed out, unlimited materials, unlimited gold, full wardrobe unlocks, with god mode enabled so we cant die just so we can complain about how there is nothing to do in this game. Seriously people go work for your stuff like everyone else.

I apologize for being brash I'm just getting tired of the cutting corner threads that players are posting these days.

if i wanted to work for something i better get paid for it, GW2 is supposed to be a game, not a job.The payment is the complete objective. Like getting said mount. Also if you think this game is like a job well I don't know what to say other than go find something you enjoy playing and we will see you when you come back...

i rather buy the skyscale like the griffon, the reward you're talking about isn't payment, it's a carrot on a fishing line.again, if i have to work for something i better get payed for it, this isn't enjoyment in the least but i already see stuff where a skyscale is pretty much becoming a requirement. (just like the griffon is to get certain mastery points)Another Legendary Credit Card thread basically. If you put half the effort in into getting the skyscale as you did in this thread you would have had it by now. You're basically asking to buy an achievement and that is a slippery slope if you ever do get your wish.

you're funny, you think i have that much time and you even compare the 5 minutes of forum time to a 4 full day dedication.if it was really that easy i would've had it by now, if it was like the griffin (minus the facet) i would've had it by now.but no, i have to have a full stack of zone exclusive materials X4 with the timing behind it plus all the achievements attached to it, that is to me a huge grind only meant for overly dedicated ppl.

It was a figure of speech. I was implying that you are dedicating your energy in a negative way and it needs to be redirected towards actually going after what you want. Clearly this is not going to change. Tons of people have obtained the mount and changing it now would cause an uproar. They already made some decent changes since the initial release and you should be thankful for where its at today. It used to take longer.

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@KAipurge.2147 said:I have been an avid Guild wars player since guild wars 1. Over time the mount unlocking in this game has become worse and worse to the point where even just unlocking the new mastery for one of the oldest mounts in the game has become a grind with the XP requirement. The world trek-ing the figure out where the clues lead was enough but tacking the extra XP requirement after all of that is just too much. I could understand if all the mounts were always of use but so many replace others making them useless that making such a grind for a mount that would be useless after another one releases that does its job better makes no sense to me. There are MMO players from Super grindy MMO's like WoW and BDO even saying that they would rather do crazy grindy things in those games than deal with the way guild wars 2 handles mount grinding.

And I know what people will say to this already. They will make the same tired excuses for why Anet decided to handle mount unlocks such as Griffon, Rollerbeetle, SKyscale, and even the new MASTERY(which isn't even a new mount)for the skimmer. I guarantee the next expansion will have a new mount that makes all those other listed ones that you spent all your time grinding for obsolete.

and then there are those that have them saying that you don't need them whilst they fly away leaving you behind in map runs because the Original 4 mounts cant keep up with the newer ones thus the game tries to force you into participating in the long boring several day time gated rng based grind for the newer mounts.

Wait a minute.

Does this complaint just basically boil down to

xp is too hard to grind?

Because I can tell you right now it's not. Even the new Skimmer mastery, which takes a little over 1 million XP to grind out, is stupidly easy to grind. Here's what you do:

1) eat food.2) Use a utility, like a Sharpening Stone.3) Pop Birthday or celebration boosters4) Pop a Black lion booster5) pop an XP booster6) Fire off some Lucky Draketails.7) Go to a guild hall and grab your XP enhancement8) Put an experience enrichment in your amulet9) Pop a Heroes Banner10) Pop a spirit Banner

11) Skip any of the above steps if you dont have or dont feel like grabbing some of them

12) Go to places that don't have foot traffic and kill neutral (Yellow name) mobs or mobs that you think people haven't killed in a while. The longer a killable target exists on a map, the larger its XP bonus becomes.(In the case of PoF, the subject of your complaint, you can try the elevated areas of Istan. Bet you you're not going to find people on that dead map in the first place, let alone the areas that have nothing to do with either meta event.)

Ta da. 1 mil+ XP for about under an hour of your time.

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@Gibson.4036 said:

@Gibson.4036 said:Popping back in to say that I'm finding getting ascended trinkets for my a various characters much more of a grind than the mounts.

So... many... berries

this is actually made easier and less of a "grind" if you have multiple harvesting characters for berries

It's also less of a "grind" if you spread your gathering over several of the living world maps and collect the currencies.

I've been thinking of that recently. I've used difluorite from Sandswept Isle for the paired items that can't be identical, but haven't tried any other zones. From doing the Skyscale, I know the season 4 areas, and Dragonfall has an option for trinkets, but the others don't. I don't really know the season 3 zones well as I've only been in them long enough to story through.

I read everywhere that Winterberries are the easiest, so I've been concentrating on that but have been thinking it would be good to go elsewhere to break up the monotony. Which LS3 zones would you say are second or third best after Bitterfrost for farming? I did try Ember Bay briefly for the accessory available there, but it was a pain to do the route (no thermal tube mastery yet) and returned so few petrified wood for an entire run that I quickly abandoned it.

Lake Doric & Bloodstone Fen are good spots too. They are also great for mats farming since White Mantle loot bags have good resource loot. There is also the Lake Doric leather run and doing events and hearts in Lake Doric is easy and you can buy the map currency with Karma. Gathering Bloodstone Rubies is easy too when you have flying mounts. I also follow the LW daily and pick some extra currencies from them. I got well over 250 or 500 currencies from all LW maps without grinding for them. Berries are indeed the easiest to get but farming them endlessly is really grinding my gears............The only items I get from them is the ascended breathers for all my 9 characters.

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Re: Experience - I found completing the pet treat achievements fun, and got a good chunk of experience for my skimmer underwater mastery just consuming the treats. There is a time gate, since you can only feed each pet once per day, but since there's no big hurry to get the underwater mastery it just became something I did each day I logged on that took a minute or so.

Re: Left behind on map runs - The only time I've ever been left behind on a map run before I got the skyscale and beetle was due to getting into combat with a random enemy. People vastly overestimate how the beetle and skyscale work before they have them. The skyscale is super slow and has a very limited altitude before you have to land or wall cling into jump. As long as you have the basic mounts keybound well you can switch between raptor and springer and cover the same ground.

The beetle I find highly situational. It's a terrible mount in tricky terrain. Small barriers can completely sap all of your speed and leave you slowly crawling up a hill waiting for endurance to reset.

They're both great mounts for what they do, and I'm glad I got them, but it's a real credit to the game designers that neither outclasses the previous mounts.

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let's add some raw numbers to this discussion regarding the "EXP grind":

instant leveling via prestored EXP as our basic numbers because no random EXP amounts involved:to instantly level a basic mount to level 3 you need 110 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.for a luxury mount (skyscale, beetle, griffin) you need 148 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.for basic mount 4 you need additional 97 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.for skimmer 5 you need 158 LS4 daily chests in your inventory.mount treats are worth 3 chests.1 chest = 12,700 EXP

actual leveling has other sources, calculated roughly in our currency of "LS4 daily chests":hearts are worth less than 2 chests [~20k EXP] (but heart activities give EXP so it is actually more than 2).most events (including bounties) are worth slightly more than 2 chests [~26k EXP] (but event activities give EXP so it's even more).dailies provide 3 chests (but daily activities give EXP, so 1 daily > 3 chests).

raptor has a unique EXP distrubution but the same overall cost until level 4, level 1-3 are cheaper and the amount they're cheaper is put into level 4 to equal it out.

now anyone can consider themselves if this is a grind or not. i think not. by far.

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I do not do collections. I do not mind grind if it is fun. Boring go hear and pick that + poorly designed events. And, I have not done/finished many LW episodes and never will, cuz they suck. I much rather play a different game or watch TV. So... no thanks.

Also, I have to echo this:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.I can agree with this, but not limit it to just those two mounts. IMO, new maps should account for raptor, springer, skimmer and jackal. If a player has mounts beyond those four, then kudos to them.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.I can agree with this, but not limit it to just those two mounts. IMO, new maps should account for raptor, springer, skimmer and jackal. If a player has mounts beyond those four, then kudos to them.

that + mushrooms + gliding (except ley-line unless thematically fitting) + rare griffin spots that can be reached by griffin or basic mounts + bond of faith or skyscale

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@otto.5684 said:I do not do collections. I do not mind grind if it is fun. Boring go hear and pick that + poorly designed events. And, I have not done/finished many LW episodes and never will, cuz they suck. I much rather play a different game or watch TV. So... no thanks.

Also, I have to echo this:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The newest maps really do favor those with Skyscale when it was just supposed to be a prestigious mount. Rather than making maps designed around it.

Map design should be done assuming the player only has raptor, springer and basic gliding.

That is complete rubbish. The mounts were added to navigate the maps better and has a curve when you move ahead. If you skip all the previous content with the mounts and their masteries as well as the glider and then dive straight into Drizzlewood with just basic gliding and basic mounts you cannot cry wolf when other players move faster over the map than you. A good example is updrafts since basic gliding cannot use that so you saying there should be no updraft on new maps because it makes players with basic gliding feel left behind............

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