Came back after X years, but rangers still have the same problem?

[StickerHappy.8052]

Most of you might know or me or not but Man, was excited to test out the changes but apparently nothing really changed? I head there is a new balance team and hopefully they read this thread. I am mainly a pvp player so these changes might be PvP focused. Sorry about that! Anyway..

What is the ranger's main Problem? (This might be true for all classes)

OUR GOOD TRAITS MAKE IT SEEM THAT THEY ARE MANDATORY IN EVERY BUILD. SAME WITH PETS. THATS WHY = 0 BUILD DIVERSITY**

What do I mean?

Why is it always that Smokescale/Jac/BB are the only viable pets in High lvl competitive PvP?I want to run an X build = It's either: (1) WS Trait required for condi removal (2) I need SoS as well if I am not running SB, etc.I want to run a trapper build = (1) Can't run full traps coz there is no (a) Stun breaker trap (b) only condi removal is HS which is a heal too, © No trap elite so HAVE to get entangle

So for the changes?

1. Trapper's Expertise - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trapper%27s_Expertise

Boons and conditions caused by traps last longer. Traps recharge faster and offensive ones cause cripple. Enemies triggering a trap removes 1 condition from you

Cripple (3s): -50% Movement SpeedRecharge Reduced: 20%Duration Increase: 60%Conditions Removed: 1

<--Reason, we need condition removal sources as trappers

2. Healing Spring Change - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring. Heals you and your pet. Place a trap that grants regeneration and cures conditions on allies. Now pulses healing to allies on top of the current effect

Health per Second: 490Increase CD to 32 seconds

<--Reason: Make it a little bit supporty Like well of Blood

3. Hunter's Tactic Change - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Tactics. Scrap the previous effect. Change it to: Gain might on weapon swap. <-- Reason is: Whole trait minor is all about weapon swapping

3 Might (8s): 60 Condition Damage, 60 Power

Reason: At this point WS is MANDATORY for condition removal, at least we could get away with some wiggle room and slot in PM or EB

4. Frost Trap - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Trap

Trap. Set a trap that chills foes.

Damage (5x): 1,330 (5.0)?Chill per Second (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement SpeedNumber of Targets: 5Duration: 4 secondsTrigger Radius: 180Effect Radius: 240Combo Field: IceUnblockableBreaks stun: 180 radiusChange to:

<--Reason: Frost trap is the best candidate since it has the longest CD (comparative to other stun breakers) Fire and Spike Trap would make it too broken with low CD

5. Elite Trap - https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smoke_TrapWhen Smoke Trap is triggered, nearby foes are Blinded and Dazed for 5...9...10 seconds.Duration: 5 SecondsRadius: 180Number of Targets: 5

<---Reason: Elite trap. That's It

6. Emphatic Bond and Poison Master---> As it is now, WS is TOO GOOD NOT TO TAKE ESPECIALLY WITH CONDITION REMOVAL. THERE IS LITERALLY NO REASON TO GET THE OTHER TWO. Again, pigeonholed into WS.Emphatic bond change: - Condition duration are split between you and your pet. Using a Beast skill (F2) Converts 2 Conditions into Boons for allies around you (Cooldown 25 seconds Conditions are not split while your pet is downed.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_BondPersonal Condition Duration: 50%Pet Condition Duration: 50%Conditions Converted to Boons: 2

Poison Master Change: - Upon using a beast ability, your pet's next attack will inflict poison; your poison damage is increased. Take less condition damage If target is inflicted with Poisonhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_MasterDamage Increase: 25%Poison (8s): 536 Damage, -33% Heal EffectivenessCondition Damage Received: -15% Damage

7. Celestial Shadow/Druidic Clarity/Ancient Seeds. MANDATORY TRAITS AGAIN. Instead of Nerfing them, why not buff the other traits?Cultivated Synergy Change - Using a healing skill heals allies around you and your pet and grant them regeneration. You and allies lose a condition when they get Regeneration.Healing: 1,000 (0.2)?Number of Allied Targets: 5Regeneration: 3 SecondsRadius: 300Conditions Removed: 1**https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cultivated_Synergy

Primal Echoes Change - Reduces recharge of staff skills. Daze nearby foes when you swap to staff. Remove 2 conditions (AOE) Every weapon swap. ICD = 10 Secondshttp://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Echoes

Daze (1s): Unable to use skills.Number of Targets: 5Recharge Reduced: 20%Radius: 300Combat OnlyConditions Removed: 2

Verdant Etching Change- Glyphs gain reduced recharge and cast Lesser Seed of Life. Make the conditions removed to 2https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Verdant_Etching

Healing: 216 (0.4745)?Blindness (4s): Next outgoing attack misses. Conditions Removed: 2Number of Targets: 5Radius: 180Combo Field: LightRange: 1,200

Natural Stride Change - Reduces the duration of movement-impairing conditions and Control Effects

Immobilize: Unable to move.Cripple: -50% Movement SpeedChilled: -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement SpeedMovement Speed Increase: 33%Taunt, Knockdown, etc - 33% Duration

Lingering Light Change - When you enter celestial avatar form, your next strike will blind your foe and heal you. While in celestial avatar form, your healing of others is significantly increased. When entering avatar form, a meadow blooms at your location, granting Vigor (2s) Regeneration (2) Regeneration, and Protection (2s) to allies within it. <-- Basically copied Rune of the grove number 6 and nerfed it

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Light

Grace of the land Change - Grant increased damage to allies within the radius of your celestial avatar abilities. Grants Fury and Retaliation upon entering avatar form._ <Retal synergizes with Glyph of unity

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grace_of_the_Land

Might (12s): 60 Condition Damage, 60 PowerFury (3s): 20% Critical ChanceRetaliation (3s): Reflect incoming damage back to its source.Number of Allied Targets: 10

LASTLY: ENABLE PET SWAPPING FOR SOULBEAST. THIS IS THE MOST BULLSHIT MECHANIC I HAVE EVER SEEN

[Kodama.6453]

You are loading way too much condition removal into ranger.With these changes, druids would become absolutely immune against every condition build.

I mean, look at this. You are basically giving druid an alternative version of engineer's anti corrosion plating, but instead of protection you just have to use regeneration which is way easier to access, not to mention that anti corrosion plating is a grandmaster trait while yours is an adept and also gives additional benefits by granting regeneration by itself as well as healing allies.

This is ridiculous.Healing spring with this trait alone would already cure 12 conditions from an entire team.And you want to buff healing spring even further by making it heal allies more. The more I look at this stuff the funnier it gets.

[StickerHappy.8052]

@Kodama.6453 said:You are loading way too much condition removal into ranger.With these changes, druids would become absolutely immune against every condition build.

I mean, look at this. You are basically giving druid an alternative version of engineer's anti corrosion plating, but instead of protection you just have to use regeneration which is way easier to access, not to mention that anti corrosion plating is a grandmaster trait while yours is an adept and also gives additional benefits by granting regeneration by itself as well as healing allies.

This is ridiculous.Healing spring with this trait alone would already cure 12 conditions from an entire team.And you want to buff healing spring even further by making it heal allies more. The more I look at this stuff the funnier it gets.

12 conditions? You mean to say you AND Your team need to sit there the entire time and eat all AoEs right? Maybe you are talking about pve?

Uhmm.. regen easy to access? You need to Apply 13 regens in 20 Seconds In order to beat druidic clarity that Just instantly wipes 13 condis AT ONCE in 20 seconds?

The problem is the lack of condition removal. It's either you use WS trait for core or druid. Give me a build without that would solve condi removal in a condi meta while playing plat or higher.. you are basically pigeonholed into those traits

[Abyssisis.3971]

In my opinion a good place to start with improving Skirmishes line would be to... merged tail wind and furious grip, create a new minor master as a 1 condition clear on weapon swap.

[anduriell.6280]

And this is another thread full of changes which will fall into Anet's deaf ears.Anyhow this is not bashing your ideas i think any change is good as it shakes the existing builds but i will point out some misconceptions in your statements.

@StickerHappy.8052 said:<--Reason, we need condition removal sources as trappersHealing spring is a very strong condition removal tool. It already removes 2 conditions every 2 seconds for every player standing on the spring for a total of 10 conditions.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_SpringIn fact is better than Guardians "Purging flames" (lower CD, longer duration, more area)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_FlamesThe issue we have with that skill is not related to the skill itself but to the busted conditions are at the moment.@StickerHappy.8052 said:<--Reason: Make it a little bit supporty Like well of BloodIncrease any CD for the healing skill is very bad idea.@StickerHappy.8052 said:<--Reason: Frost trap is the best candidate since it has the longest CD (comparative to other stun breakers) Fire and Spike Trap would make it too broken with low CDNo need for a trap to break stun, the ranger should use any of the other skills to fulfill that which has many.@StickerHappy.8052 said:<---Reason: Elite trap. That's ItI agree we need an smoke trap but after careful thinking i think it should not be an elite trap but replace one of the least used ones: Frost or Spike.

The rest of the buffs i personally don't agree. Core and Druid do have enough sustain if built with that in mind. Soulbeast needs more sustain as the damage output is continuously nerfed, but that trait should go into the soulbeast traitline so it doesn't impact any other specialitations.

[Abyssisis.3971]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:<--Reason: Frost trap is the best candidate since it has the longest CD (comparative to other stun breakers) Fire and Spike Trap would make it too broken with low CDNo need for a trap to break stun, the ranger should use any of the other skills to fulfill that which has many.

Agreed, but trappers expertise should include a break stun, similar to how dragon hunter’s Hunter’s determination provides a break stun on a 60 second cooldown.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"StickerHappy.8052" said:<--Reason: Frost trap is the best candidate since it has the longest CD (comparative to other stun breakers) Fire and Spike Trap would make it too broken with low CDNo need for a trap to break stun, the ranger should use any of the other skills to fulfill that which has many.

Agreed, but trappers expertise should include a break stun, similar to how dragon hunter’s Hunter’s determination provides a break stun on a 60 second cooldown.

Why not instead get Resistance as a base line? On Condi build you would not increase concentration for boon duration so it will be limited to base duration, on power build it will be possible to increase it a bit with the way most build will add some duration for boons. Alternative would be to be able to use Blind as it prevents to get hit less. Could have a build in procs when you get CC and pick traps from trait line.

Something OP seem to ignore with is that with Traps you have https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trapper. Stealth and superspeed are both another way to avoid getting CCed. Build diversity is also limited for other professions included SoulBeast. Problem with Trap builds is that they either go all out on AoE with all Trap skill there is for Ranger/Druid and SB vs how limited our access is to kill multiple targets (we have tools when we use traits and weapons that offer multihit, but the point is that AoE which is Traps do offer fields that can be blasted, can hit multiple target in a small area, but because of how mobile targets (both players and NPC) have become it can be hard to actually get the full effects of Traps, even with the number of Immob we in general have access to). Traps don't fit with the way this game have developed over time as even putting down a fire field trap take 500 ms before it triggers (and it feels even longer sometime until I can be sure that this skill have actually been registered and can use another skill in DWC - yes it is a PvE map, but it should tell something about how hard it is to put under the feet to anther player in PvP or WvW).

[mistsim.2748]

very long write-up for basically not much said. rangers are in a pretty good position right now overall. Druids need a few more tweaks.Multiple ranger builds can take you into Plat 2, and some even higher. That's pretty damn good to me.Skirmishing line is amazing right now. I think a bunch of you aren't really trying. Traps are in a good place, and all 3 GM traits are viable. Actually now that I think about it, it's my favorite tree.

[KeyOrion.9506]

Stickerhappy. Some of the suggestions you made, the Ranger's had before, but it was considered to OP by Anet, so that all got nerfed. No joke. I saw some of your suggestions at top, and some of them WERE part and parcel of ranger abilities and were REMOVED, because it gave to much ofa benefit to the ranger. I'm sooooo sorry that your just coming back now, but ...it used to be in game for ranger's. Anet took it out, so ranger's couldn't use it no more. And then you come back after it's all been said, done. I wish Ranger's were Op, but with so many complaints of Ranger's being Op we continuously have to be nerfed, raked down and have our claws pulled, it's getting to the point of ....why even bother.