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Should they add a DPS meter? - [Merged]


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When the game was being launched the selling point was "play how you want". Do you know why Guild Wars 2 has a soft trinity rather than a hard one? It was by design, so that no one would ever have to wait for a certain class, for a specific party composition. Inevitably, content was introduced which made liars of the developers.Do you know what is not fun? Having to play a class, a play style and a build I hate because that is what people currently want in their party - and I am not even talking about Raids. I am talking about the single boss strikes.Introducing yet another way to shove players in to a tiny box of "play how I want and need you to play" is not going to make better players and will likely further wittle down any build or play style diversity between patch days.

Do you know what would improve the game? Including tutorials that give a real understanding of simple game mechanics like dodging and CC, skill synergy, and build synergy. Guild Wars 1 Fractions had this. Create better players by empowering them , not by threatening them with party kicks because they don't want to play with the precision you expect.

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@"Obfuscate.6430" said:When the game was being launched the selling point was "play how you want". Do you know why Guild Wars 2 has a soft trinity rather than a hard one? It was by design, so that no one would ever have to wait for a certain class, for a specific party composition. Inevitably, content was introduced which made liars of the developers.Do you know what is not fun? Having to play a class, a play style and a build I hate because that is what people currently want in their party - and I am not even talking about Raids. I am talking about the single boss strikes.Introducing yet another way to shove players in to a tiny box of "play how I want and need you to play" is not going to make better players and will likely further wittle down any build or play style diversity between patch days.

Do you know what would improve the game? Including tutorials that give a real understanding of simple game mechanics like dodging and CC, skill synergy, and build synergy. Guild Wars 1 Fractions had this. Create better players by empowering them , not by threatening them with party kicks because they don't want to play with the precision you expect.

Strikes, Raids, FractalsThis is end game content.Some of them are nothing but a DPS check. (Subject 7 much?)

If you don't meet the DPS check you don't move on.You play as you want, and its bad DPS, the other 4 people who are playing to move on, you are hindering their progress.They should see in DPS meter, rather than a couple of wipes and figuring out who it is, and boot the person "play as they want"

Now, with smaller rotations, it makes "Play as you want easier"But since some fights, you gotta follow a strict rotation, usually 19 - 26 button long rotation, if you don't do you get the DPS the game is expecting of you.

Play as you want in PvE, nobody cares about your DPS.But in fractals, raids, strikes, this is serious content.There are DPS checks. If they have a DPS check, they (the developers) obviously don't expect "Play as you want"

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I am all pro DPS meter! I'm always curious how I perform compared to the other DPS classes and I'm always willing to improve and learn.

If your job is to DPS then I don't see why you shouldn't get measured by your DPS?In the end that lack of skill / knowledge or dedication could be the reason why other players waste a lot of time trying some more challenging stuff.

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@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@"Obfuscate.6430" said:When the game was being launched the selling point was "play how you want". Do you know why Guild Wars 2 has a soft trinity rather than a hard one? It was by design, so that no one would ever have to wait for a certain class, for a specific party composition. Inevitably, content was introduced which made liars of the developers.Do you know what is not fun? Having to play a class, a play style and a build I hate because that is what people currently want in their party - and I am not even talking about Raids. I am talking about the single boss strikes.Introducing yet another way to shove players in to a tiny box of "play how I want and need you to play" is not going to make better players and will likely further wittle down any build or play style diversity between patch days.

Do you know what would improve the game? Including tutorials that give a real understanding of simple game mechanics like dodging and CC, skill synergy, and build synergy. Guild Wars 1 Fractions had this. Create better players by empowering them , not by threatening them with party kicks because they don't want to play with the precision you expect.

Strikes, Raids, FractalsThis is end game content.Some of them are nothing but a DPS check.

If you don't meet the DPS check you don't move on.You play as you want, and its bad DPS, the other 4 people who are playing to move on, you are hindering their progress.They should see in DPS meter, rather than a couple of wipes and figuring out who it is, and boot the person "play as they want"

Now, with smaller rotations, it makes "Play as you want easier"But since some fights, you gotta follow a strict rotation, usually 19 - 26 button long rotation, if you don't do you get the DPS the game is expecting of you.

Play as you want in PvE, nobody cares about your DPS.But in fractals, raids, strikes, this is serious content.There are DPS checks. If they have a DPS check, they (the developers) obviously don't expect "Play as you want"

There will always be a 'best way', a ''faster way'- but it throws away party/build diversity.A DPS meter only creates further division where there doesn't need to be any.

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@"Obfuscate.6430" said:There will always be a 'best way', a ''faster way'- but it throws away party/build diversity.A DPS meter only creates further division where there doesn't need to be any.

GW1 had build diversity but GW2? I haven't seen anyone using a hammer in years - that should tell you enough.If you wanna play ineffective, fun builds (which is understandable), you shouldn't do that when people rely on your performance. Most classes have 3-4 "effective" builds and that's it - those are also the builds you're supposed to use for endgame stuff. For everything else it doesn't matter and no one will care about DPS.

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no they also need to ban any 3party dps meter, any content in the game can be finished and completed without these rotations, people forcing them should be banned too for being toxic to others.

the game is not a dps checkpeople forcing dps check on pugs should be banned.if you want dps and speed run you can make your static party.

this game turned into a madhouse with these dps meters and kp things, they aren't even logic, this is getting out of control, at least anet is doing something and changed KP things, next step will be banning dps meters

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@"SeikeNz.3526" said:no they also need to ban any 3party dps meter, any content in the game can be finished and completed without these rotations, people forcing them should be banned too for being toxic to others.

the game is not a dps checkpeople forcing dps check on pugs should be banned.if you want dps and speed run you can make your static party.

this game turned into a madhouse with these dps meters and kp things, they aren't even logic, this is getting out of control, at least anet is doing something and changed KP things, next step will be banning dps meters

On one hand you say ban people who tell others what to do, you can complete stuff without anything, play how you want. And in the very same breath say ban people who are doing just that because you don't like how they play and they should follow your rules ?

Based on what you say and who should be banned, casual players who keep joining hard core groups and trying to force being carried or their caudal agenda also fit the ban criteria since they would also class as being toxic. This doesn't fit the narrative you want to push though.

On one hand you acknowledge that you can start your own groups by telling people to "form your own static" yet I am almost certain I've seen you saying "just starting your own group isn't a solution"

Your entire standpoint is incredibly hypocritical.

You condemn people with "play how you want as long as it's my way." Calling them toxic but then propose the exact same thing...your literally pushing "play how you want as long as it's my way, play with who you want as long as I am included. If you don't you should be banned"

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@choon.6308 said:Nah, if they add a DPS meter it will expose millions of players having less than garbage dps all around. Right now, most of them are content doing 2k dps at lvl 80 group content and think they are doing ok

...but that's exactly the problem?!How could they know that they underperform when there's nothing and no one that tells them they underperform?

For a long time I thought I'm doing great dps-wise but boiii did I feel embarassed when I finally geared up, skilled properly and got my rotations. I didn't know this was even possible, how could I know when all I see is my own DPS and the enemies HP bar going down simultaneously?

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@"Obfuscate.6430" said:When the game was being launched the selling point was "play how you want". Do you know why Guild Wars 2 has a soft trinity rather than a hard one? It was by design, so that no one would ever have to wait for a certain class, for a specific party composition. Inevitably, content was introduced which made liars of the developers.Do you know what is not fun? Having to play a class, a play style and a build I hate because that is what people currently want in their party - and I am not even talking about Raids. I am talking about the single boss strikes.Introducing yet another way to shove players in to a tiny box of "play how I want and need you to play" is not going to make better players and will likely further wittle down any build or play style diversity between patch days.

Do you know what would improve the game? Including tutorials that give a real understanding of simple game mechanics like dodging and CC, skill synergy, and build synergy. Guild Wars 1 Fractions had this. Create better players by empowering them , not by threatening them with party kicks because they don't want to play with the precision you expect.

Despite the misconstrued understanding of "play how you want" it doesn't mean play with who you want.

Those other players are playing how they want. Why is that a problem? Or is this another "play how you want as long as it's my way and I am included". If we have 4 people who are like minded and 1 who isn't...then the one get kicked since they didn't fit the group or didn't align with how the group wanted to play..you know their own way..how are the 4 the problem? Just as you say they shouldn't have a right to pigeon hole you and tell you how to play you have the exact same zero right to do that to them and say they shouldn't play their way.

"But you don't need too to complete the content". Completely irrelevant. If they want to play a certain way, again, who are you to tell them otherwise.

" But I can't get a party and they are keeping me from the content " . Not at all start your own party or join parties that share you mind instead of demonising and chastising those that don't fit how you think they should be playing. The exact issue you're accusing them of doing to you.

It's also incredibly heavy handed to call the devs liars because some content requires organisation. Hard content where you needed to be better organised was always a design of the game. Dungeons, their original vision of this, just didn't actually hit where they wanted it to.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if you can't kill without him that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.

So if a person can't carry is the same as another one afking. Being incompetent is the same as "not carrying". The wonderful things you read on video game forums.

more amazing is saying that someone with bad dps is afk.or dying for being bad and trying to search for an excuse

Your exact words:

if you can't kill
without him
that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.That includes being afk doesn't it?And besides a player that does let's say 1k-2k damage is the same as being afk, as in not making any difference to the fight. Wasn't that your point anyway, talking about "carrying"? That some players aren't contributing anything to the team, being leeches, and you put them in the same position as players actively playing and trying their best, but maybe their best still isn't enough to beat the boss with a 1-man handicap.

without him i mean he is dead, now if he is not dead and he is doing low damage, but you still can't kill you are bad as him because you would not need him if you could carry like you guys keep saying.

Interesting. So let me get this straight, if I put my full nomad gear on my Guardian, get an "unkillable" build, go into a Fractal and hide in a corner from the boss, if the other 4 players fail to kill the boss they are as much to blame as me. Congratulations I guess, villainizing the victims. And even if a team can carry (because many teams CAN carry), does that make it an OK behavior for a player to exploit the rest of the team like that? When is the time and effort of a player going to be respected?

now if everyone died and he is still alive, he is more skilled and better than everyone on the party, deal with that.

If everyone dies in team content except for one player, that doesn't make that player better. Check my example above on why being alive while others in your group are dead doesn't really mean anything. Also the rest of the players might've simply died because they were one player sort, the longer a boss survives, the more mechanics you have to deal with after all.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if you can't kill without him that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.

So if a person can't carry is the same as another one afking. Being incompetent is the same as "not carrying". The wonderful things you read on video game forums.

more amazing is saying that someone with bad dps is afk.or dying for being bad and trying to search for an excuse

Your exact words:

if you can't kill
without him
that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.That includes being afk doesn't it?And besides a player that does let's say 1k-2k damage is the same as being afk, as in not making any difference to the fight. Wasn't that your point anyway, talking about "carrying"? That some players aren't contributing anything to the team, being leeches, and you put them in the same position as players actively playing and trying their best, but maybe their best still isn't enough to beat the boss with a 1-man handicap.

without him i mean he is dead, now if he is not dead and he is doing low damage, but you still can't kill you are bad as him because you would not need him if you could carry like you guys keep saying.

now if everyone died and he is still alive, he is more skilled and better than everyone on the party, deal with that.

So if I can't carry someone who is contributing nothing then I am as bad as them because if I was good then I could cover the contribution? What kind of terrible logic is that...

Same with if I build completely selfishly, contribute nothing but work on my own personal survival, which could coincidentally be the reason we fail, then I am better than everyone...

Terrible , terrible logic. Both scenarios you've posted just completely forgo almost all of the point of working as a team.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if you can't kill without him that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.

So if a person can't carry is the same as another one afking. Being incompetent is the same as "not carrying". The wonderful things you read on video game forums.

more amazing is saying that someone with bad dps is afk.or dying for being bad and trying to search for an excuse

Your exact words:

if you can't kill
without him
that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.That includes being afk doesn't it?And besides a player that does let's say 1k-2k damage is the same as being afk, as in not making any difference to the fight. Wasn't that your point anyway, talking about "carrying"? That some players aren't contributing anything to the team, being leeches, and you put them in the same position as players actively playing and trying their best, but maybe their best still isn't enough to beat the boss with a 1-man handicap.

without him i mean he is dead, now if he is not dead and he is doing low damage, but you still can't kill you are bad as him because you would not need him if you could carry like you guys keep saying.

Interesting. So let me get this straight, if I put my full nomad gear on my Guardian, get an "unkillable" build, go into a Fractal and hide in a corner from the boss, if the other 4 players fail to kill the boss they are as much to blame as me. Congratulations I guess, villainizing the victims. And even if a team can carry (because many teams CAN carry), does that make it an OK behavior for a player to exploit the rest of the team like that? When is the time and effort of a player going to be respected?

now if everyone died and he is still alive, he is more skilled and better than everyone on the party, deal with that.

If everyone dies in team content except for one player, that doesn't make that player better. Check my example above on why being alive while others in your group are dead doesn't really mean anything. Also the rest of the players might've simply died because they were one player sort, the longer a boss survives, the more mechanics you have to deal with after all.

you keep implying the player is afk, low damage is being is not afk.yep if go unkillable build and still be alive you are doing great ;), if your party died it's their fault, you can still kill it, just going to take time

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if you can't kill without him that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.

So if a person can't carry is the same as another one afking. Being incompetent is the same as "not carrying". The wonderful things you read on video game forums.

more amazing is saying that someone with bad dps is afk.or dying for being bad and trying to search for an excuse

Your exact words:

if you can't kill
without him
that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.That includes being afk doesn't it?And besides a player that does let's say 1k-2k damage is the same as being afk, as in not making any difference to the fight. Wasn't that your point anyway, talking about "carrying"? That some players aren't contributing anything to the team, being leeches, and you put them in the same position as players actively playing and trying their best, but maybe their best still isn't enough to beat the boss with a 1-man handicap.

without him i mean he is dead, now if he is not dead and he is doing low damage, but you still can't kill you are bad as him because you would not need him if you could carry like you guys keep saying.

Interesting. So let me get this straight, if I put my full nomad gear on my Guardian, get an "unkillable" build, go into a Fractal and hide in a corner from the boss, if the other 4 players fail to kill the boss they are as much to blame as me. Congratulations I guess, villainizing the victims. And even if a team can carry (because many teams CAN carry), does that make it an OK behavior for a player to exploit the rest of the team like that? When is the time and effort of a player going to be respected?

now if everyone died and he is still alive, he is more skilled and better than everyone on the party, deal with that.

If everyone dies in team content except for one player, that doesn't make that player better. Check my example above on why being alive while others in your group are dead doesn't really mean anything. Also the rest of the players might've simply died because they were one player sort, the longer a boss survives, the more mechanics you have to deal with after all.

you keep implying the player is afk, low damage is being is not afk.yep if go unkillable build and still be alive you are doing great ;), if your party died it's their fault

I'm not implying anything, you said above that the "low dps" is as if it's "without him", having very low dps and being afk are the exact same thing.You are just villainizing the victims and it doesn't really help your argument. In fact it makes it pathetic.

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@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:I'm confused, how is a DPS meter going to help with rotations?

Lets people know whatever they currently doing is bad, and when someone tells them the correct rotation, they and the other people can see, that the DPS more efficient or worse.

But thats not the problem, the attack rotation being too long is the REAL solution to this.Knowing people do bad or good dps doesn't solve anything.Close that wide dps gap is the solution and it starts with attack chains being too long.

A DPS meter will help with making new builds too. Not everyone has to follow snowcrows or
be a pro
to go outside the meta/suggested build.

If your dps goes down, it's it's not that the player is bad all the time. Sometimes some adds spawned and messed up your rotation. Or the boss randomly decides to stun you.

I think adding a built in dps meter is a bad idea because it will bring toxicity. "Oh we all failed on the last boss? Better kick the person with the least dps."

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I think there might be a compromise that might work.

Consider an in-house DPS meter for guilds , which would allow guild members to see each other's information.This helps in two ways: It can allow training guilds to directly work with members who need help the most as OP felt it might.It will allow people to play with who they want and how they want to the standards they expect.

Another possibility is to expand this idea with Guild Alliances, a feature they might introduce with the newest expansion since guild alliances were such a major part of the Factions campaign.

I think there is a misconception that you need to have peak performance to clear content. That is the message the DPS meter sends and it is the wrong one.While I don't want to /gg for half an hour until I rage quit, I also don't want to be forced in to a play style that isn't mine just to gain access to stories, and skins.What OP and many others overlook is that you can still play well and still clear content , even if it's a little slower than ideal.

You do not have to play with people who want to play that way and vice versa. That's just the bottom line.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if you can't kill without him that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.

So if a person can't carry is the same as another one afking. Being incompetent is the same as "not carrying". The wonderful things you read on video game forums.

more amazing is saying that someone with bad dps is afk.or dying for being bad and trying to search for an excuse

Your exact words:

if you can't kill
without him
that means you can't carry and it's bad as him.That includes being afk doesn't it?And besides a player that does let's say 1k-2k damage is the same as being afk, as in not making any difference to the fight. Wasn't that your point anyway, talking about "carrying"? That some players aren't contributing anything to the team, being leeches, and you put them in the same position as players actively playing and trying their best, but maybe their best still isn't enough to beat the boss with a 1-man handicap.

without him i mean he is dead, now if he is not dead and he is doing low damage, but you still can't kill you are bad as him because you would not need him if you could carry like you guys keep saying.

now if everyone died and he is still alive, he is more skilled and better than everyone on the party, deal with that.

Surviving =/= skill

common saying in mmo's better to die with your team than to survive without them. all dps makes things quicker and skips mechanics this has been in gw2 since the start. ive used arcdps and played high end pve for a while now and ive very rarely met anyone complaining about someone not have the top benchmark dps, people just want to know if a player on soulbeast (highest burst in game) is doing more damage than their banner warrior. if not then why should they get to leech a free reward for others hard work.

thats it, its rude to leech dont do it. everyone needs to participate.

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