Kill Proof idea - Let us ping from the Wallet

[Cyninja.2954]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"YtseJam.9784" said:There's a lot of issues with "kill proofs", like having to save all the raid tokens, and the now defunct ESS on fractals (although I deposit all my KP on my guild hall and I kept 100 ESS). A quick fix for this would be to let us ping from the wallet and then let us deposit the raid kps in the wallet as well.

Titles are not 100% trustworthy, people can buy those. You need some kind of proof that you can beat them frequently :)

Whatever the KP is, IT MUST BE SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE FAKE CHAT CODE GENERATED. That's my only beef with it.

Personally though, I think KPs become toxic at a certain point. For example, most players experienced the largest growth in knowledge & skill between 1 ESS and 20 ESS. Comparing the skill of a 20 ESS player to a 50 ESS player is so marginally low that it really didn't matter. And comparing the skill of a 50 ESS player to a 100 ESS player is even marginally lower than 20 vs 50. So what I'm trying to say is that guys asking for 250 KP pings as if it mattered vs. guys with 100 or even 20, is kind of ridiculous. I mean sure, you can complete the fractal a little bit faster with a 200+ group, but is that worth the level of segregation and sheer wait times that comes with such an elite imminence front? I don't think it is. Considering how marginally small the difference in skill is between a player with 200 vs. say 20. Honestly in some cases, the guy with 20 ESS is plainly naturally a better player anyway. The only difference is that he hasn't grinded out 200 ESS. So yeah, KPs can be toxic and plainly create false representation, especially with chat code generation ^^

I think that a good solid KP should come more in the form of a single achievement title or something like LNHB that is very difficult to achieve, but once it is achieved it sets a standard of play level for that person, and no amount of face grind playing can make anyone look any better than anyone else with that title. The only issue here is providing an achievable title that isn't something that would be easy to buy or be carried into from other players.

I dunno, I'd need to think about a better & more solid suggestion.

I have to disagree to some extent.

Your claim about the most significant increase happening between 1 ESS and 20 ESS is only true because after, a vast majority of players are content with their performance and STOP improving. Why should they, they have the content down to an extent which is sufficient to them? Yet there is a huge possibility for improvement even after that, theoretically all the way up to the point of what speedruners bring for records (if we assume this to be the absolute top skill end in mastering an encounter).

The issue here is: you can improve far beyond the average performance of 20 ESS groups. Think of it this way: a vast majority of players do not bring SC performance or benchmarks, yet many (likely far more then the SC benchmark able ones) are successfully raiding.

The biggest jump might be between 1 ESS and 20 ESS by mere fact that a player has around 10 times the experience by the time they hit 20+ ESS in clearing the content. The second biggest gap in skill comes from playing without a heal firebrand in CMs (and not as suggested between 20 ESS and 50 ESS or 100 ESS). The only reason your claim is true is because a LOT of players never WANT to improve that far. That does not mean though that they are in any capacity able to perform in a say 300+ KP group, which were very often non heal fb. As such, players who have honed their ability beyond a crutch of bringing a healer need to look for other players who are as skilled, because playing with or without a healer makes a rather big difference by now.

Yes but you're assuming that the 20 ESS player (could not) perform in a group with no healbrand.

Yes I do, and from all of my experience when carrying publics on HFB, none ever could. Even players at 100+ KP often required stability and aegis babysitting.

There is a huge gap between running no healer and having a healer at your back. Most significant in that when running without one you actually have to know your class PAST your damage rotation.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:For all you know he's some kind of a savant that if invited or allowed into your group, would increase your clear times significantly. But no one will ever know because he's being judged on KPs.

Nonsense, on average, this will never hold true. Yes, that 1 player in 1 million might be a god given present to this game, the other 999 thousand are not.

EDIT:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I guess that's the ultimate point to make here. Just because a player has played enough to grind some inordinate amount of KPs, does not automatically make him "good" or amongst the most efficient players out there.

What you are leaving out:Most players do not join 300+ KP groups IF they can't play without a HFB (even if they have the required KP), because they know that this might be required. I've seen players with XXX KP go into 100-200 KP groups specifically for that easy HFB carry. I have done it myself, it is literally the reason I pug at 200 KP level as HFB when I want a smooth run outside my static. It certainly isn't because I can't play without one, I have done so often enough.

This is not about grinding enough KP, it's also about communicating what kind of approach to clearing might be used, again obfuscated by a poor LFG system.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I've always made the joke that KP requirements will filter out the absolutely clueless-- if they can fake their KP and not get caught, then they're probably good enough. :disappointed:

Higher requirements is not telling people "gtfo u nub" but rather certain expectations that would not be had of less experienced players. For example, as a Rev, you are expected to solo anomalies and marbles. If you go into those groups and act clueless, then you're going to get tossed and it's not really a matter of KP. In particular the CMs cannot have players that don't know their role as even one playing failing a mechanic can wipe a whole group. So no, you can't play however you want. It's unlikely anyone from the "You have to let me in your group" actually knows what they're not allowed in.

I guess an issue with KPs in general is that it doesn't require competence in all content. No matter how many ESS you may have, you might be a complete potato at Nightmare. This is probably unlikely at entry level where Shattered has more mechanics to learn, but then again these 2 fractals require different skillsets to perform well in.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

No need for KP. Items are meant to be used tor rewards. Make a tiered title achievment based on number of clears for each cm. Solves everything.

[Fangoth.4503]

can't wait for some 10 abyssal group to emmerge and see all player crying about skill discrimination realise its now skill and gold discrimination =)

[Astralporing.1957]

@maddoctor.2738 said:The only reason any form of gatekeeping is even needed in the game is due to how entitled, disrespectful and dishonest this community is. I mean, if players were honest about their own abilities and had a sliver of respect for other people around them, by honoring their LFG requests, we wouldn't need KP or anything similar to that.Oh, many of those are honest. It's just that they are completely unaware, that their perception of their own abilities doesn't match with reality.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:The right of each player in the game is to be able to play whatever they want through the whole content (after all they've paid for it). Asking for "kill proof" or "meta builds" in order to allow someone into a group/raid go against those rights and thus is a form of discrimination.You're right in that each player indeed has the right to play whatever they want throughout the whole content. You keep forgetting, though, that their right to play with whomever they want is restricted by the very same right of the other player. So, when you have a right to play (or not) with someone, that person has an equal right to play with you - or to decide to play with someone else instead.

Will you deny a job irl to a potentially very qualified person because he got tatoos and say that "it's not discrimination, at best it's just non inclusive"?No, not really. I would however pass over a "potentially qualified" person with no past work experience for someone with said experience. Especially if i wanted someone with past experience, because i had no time to train someone from scratch. You might call it a "discrimination based on past work experience". I would call it "common sense".

KP is just this - a proof of past work experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

KP is just this - a proof of past work experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

But, asking 250+kp on lfg is like asking PhD in medical field to fill janitor work in hospital.This is the trend lfg has been for awhile and it's not good for gaming communities. This is why dev removed it. You still got title which should be enough for lfg. More than that, make static

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Yellow Rainbow.6142" said:

KP is just this - a proof of past work experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

But, asking 250+kp on lfg is like asking PhD in medical field to fill janitor work in hospital.On CM LFG? No, it is not. A "janitor" level player won't cut it there.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

KP is just this - a proof of past work experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

But, asking 250+kp on lfg is like asking PhD in medical field to fill janitor work in hospital.This is the trend lfg has been for awhile and it's not good for gaming communities. This is why dev removed it. You still got title which should be enough for lfg. More than that, make static

Except they didn't remove it. That's the odd thing about this whole situation. The dev in the guild chat said it was a problem, but instead of actually removing said KP they just made it so you can't earn it anymore and get something else (a currency, in this situation) that you can't link in chat. But the old KP is still there and people are still asking for it in LFG. So what they did solved nothing. If they had changed the old KP into the new currency across all acounts, then they would've changed it. Now they've just created a division.

And also, Fractals CM is not janitor level work. Tier 1 Fractals, that's janitor level work. CM's are PhD level, if we stick to this comparison.