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@Smoosh.2718 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:

I think this is a bit wishful thinking.

"Slash" is literally just some random "I auto with my sword" skill. That skill name isn't even used in warrior's auto attack chain, but it is part of the sword chains for ranger and thief. It is just generic in general.

Fiery block deals damage with the shield, which isn't what warrior does with a shield.

Shield charge is the closest to a warrior ability, but there is still the difference that he launches you while warrior would stun you instead.

I don't think that Anet's intention really has been that he is a warrior, but more that they wanted to make him have skills which support his mine mechanic. Hence why he has a launch and also the block. He mostly has a playstyle of not dealing damage directly to you, but pushing you into his mines instead while you are unable to damage him.

I would still primarily see Canach as an engineer. He never really has shown any warrior qualities in the lore (except some REALLY generic weapon skills from that one fight, which could easily be from any profession and are not really tied to warrior), his most notable feature are his affinity for explosives, which is primarily an engineer thing.

He is also mostly used as an explosives expert in story events.

Fiery block could be homage to the rune
.

To me Canach screams rogue warrior, who has had to change their ways to survive, using cheap tricks to make quicker work of their foes, bombs/mines. Canach has the use of painkillers (which shares the same icon as Endure Pain along with the same effect) he also is able to be immune to conditions, which has a direct link to Berserker Stance.

This background of Canach is perfect to be used as justification of an elite spec. He is a character that has adapted to survive the world and his treatment. I wouldnt be surprised if we see him come back into the story with a pistol in hand in total honesty. If that does happen you can be 100% assured warrior is getting pistol.

As for me im still a good 90% sure that pistol is coming to warrior.

The ability name "painkiller" points towards engineer again. It is modern medicine, which again, is an engineer thing.We will have to wait and see about warrior getting pistol, but for me, Canach still screams engineer all over the place for me and not warrior.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:All this talk about Canach fitting into the professions...

What if he simply does not have a profession?Taimi can fight along us, despite not belonging to any professions.Tybalt didn't belong to any profession either.

Not every NPC belongs to a profession.

It was about NPC's giving hints of future elite specs, Canach in a way in addition to the other 2 NPC's are subtle hints.

I will correct the tybalt one:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightbringer_Tybalt_Leftpaw

Engineer.

As for Taimi, she is a bit of a loose end, never using any skills of her own... However, she uses golems to do her work for her, golems that she made alike to Snaff, you could say she is closer to an engineer profession wise.

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@Fueki.4753 said:All this talk about Canach fitting into the professions...

What if he simply does not have a profession?Taimi can fight along us, despite not belonging to any professions.Tybalt didn't belong to any profession either.

Not every NPC belongs to a profession.

Dude, Tybalt literally calls himself an engineer. You couldn't have picked a worse example for your point than him, absolutely everything about Tybalt tells you that he is an engineer. ^^He uses explosives, he uses the engi turret skills, he uses the rifle, he uses a flamethrower, he calls himself an engineer.....

You are right that not every npc needs to represent a profession, we have derwisch and paragon npc enemies for example, which are not represented in player classes. But for some it is a fair assumption and I think with Canach's usage of bomb, mines, etc, he should be considered an engineer.

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@Smoosh.2718 said:Engineer.@Kodama.6453 said:Tybalt literally calls himself an engineer. You couldn't have picked a worse example for your point than him, absolutely everything about Tybalt tells you that he is an engineer.Yet he is using a Dark Asuran Harpoon, a spear, in one mission.Engineers of the player profession cannot do this.

DudeI'm not one of those with Y chromosomes.

As for Taimi, she is a bit of a loose end, never using any skills of her own... However, she uses golems to do her work for her, golems that she made alike to Snaff, you could say she is closer to an engineer profession wise.

Golemancy is not an Engineer profession thing, but a racial Asuran thing it's not related to the player profession.Or are you claiming every Asuran Guardian, Mesmer, etc is partially Engineer as well?If so, I want them all to have access to Explosive entrance and Underwater Grenade kits.

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@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:I am saying that he is a Warrior/Engineer not just Warrior. Kind of how Anet described Holo as an Engineer/Warrior.

That's not how this system works.

If they design stuff like this, they ask themselves "how would class x do stuff similar to class y?".Like how spellbreaker is not casting illusions themselves, but they see through illusions and break magic not by using refined anti-magic spells, but they break them with a combination of hard training and willpower.

Or to use the holosmith example again: holosmith is not carrying alot of weapons with themselves they are well trained in switching and adapting like warriors, but instead they have built a device that allows them to create all weapons they are in need of.

Mirage is not using shadows and sneaking to ambush their enemies unseen, instead they are very clearly seen by the enemy multiple times with their clones and they use their clones to ambush enemies with a numbers advantage instead of the element of surprise.

Canach and his highly advanced usage of explosives is not "how would warrior do engineer things", it is just directly stealing engineer things.If you want a warrior/engineer thing, then an appropriate thing would be something like a warrior being able to build barricades from the scrap on the battlefield. This would give warrior some of the master craftsman theme of the engineer, but not directly steal their way to do stuff by taking highly advanced technology from them.

I personally think that Canach might even be a great character to introduce the new engineer elite spec to us.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:I am saying that he is a Warrior/Engineer not just Warrior. Kind of how Anet described Holo as an Engineer/Warrior.

That's not how this system works.

If they design stuff like this, they ask themselves "how would class x do stuff similar to class y?".Like how spellbreaker is
not
casting illusions themselves, but they see through illusions and break magic not by using refined anti-magic spells, but they break them with a combination of hard training and willpower.

Or to use the holosmith example again: holosmith is not carrying alot of weapons with themselves they are well trained in switching and adapting like warriors, but instead they have built a device that allows them to
create
all weapons they are in need of.

Mirage is not using shadows and sneaking to ambush their enemies unseen, instead they are very clearly seen by the enemy multiple times with their clones and they use their clones to ambush enemies with a numbers advantage instead of the element of surprise.

Canach and his highly advanced usage of explosives is not "how would warrior do engineer things", it is just directly stealing engineer things.If you want a warrior/engineer thing, then an appropriate thing would be something like a warrior being able to build barricades from the scrap on the battlefield. This would give warrior some of the master craftsman theme of the engineer, but not directly steal
their
way to do stuff by taking highly advanced technology from them.

I personally think that Canach might even be a great character to introduce the new engineer elite spec to us.

I think we are talking past each other a little bit here. Anet has said that several of the E-Specs were flavored to be what the old dual classes were and they have explicitly state that Spellbreaker is a pseudo Warrior/Mesmer and that Holo is a pseudo Engineer/Warrior. What I am saying is that Canach fits into that mold in that he is essentially a Warrior E-Spec, albeit a NPC one for now, that is Warrior/Engineer. He has heavy armor, his shield skills from when he was an enemy are effectively warrior shield skills with shield mastery traited with the 6th bonus from Runes of the Guardian, with effective utility skills granting him his mines and explosives. Said mines and explosives are what he is known for, because lets be honest a base warrior NPC is just a beat stick.

If we were to assume this all to be the case I'd say he is a warrior E-Spec that gained gadgets as the new utility and the traitline would be heavily focused on blast finishers and explosions. I bet he was a test template for a potential E-Spec for HoT that got shelved for the time being.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I am saying that he is a Warrior/Engineer not just Warrior. Kind of how Anet described Holo as an Engineer/Warrior.

That's not how this system works.

If they design stuff like this, they ask themselves "how would class x do stuff similar to class y?".Like how spellbreaker is
not
casting illusions themselves, but they see through illusions and break magic not by using refined anti-magic spells, but they break them with a combination of hard training and willpower.

Or to use the holosmith example again: holosmith is not carrying alot of weapons with themselves they are well trained in switching and adapting like warriors, but instead they have built a device that allows them to
create
all weapons they are in need of.

Mirage is not using shadows and sneaking to ambush their enemies unseen, instead they are very clearly seen by the enemy multiple times with their clones and they use their clones to ambush enemies with a numbers advantage instead of the element of surprise.

Canach and his highly advanced usage of explosives is not "how would warrior do engineer things", it is just directly stealing engineer things.If you want a warrior/engineer thing, then an appropriate thing would be something like a warrior being able to build barricades from the scrap on the battlefield. This would give warrior some of the master craftsman theme of the engineer, but not directly steal
their
way to do stuff by taking highly advanced technology from them.

I personally think that Canach might even be a great character to introduce the new engineer elite spec to us.

I think we are talking past each other a little bit here. Anet has said that several of the E-Specs were flavored to be what the old dual classes were and they have explicitly state that Spellbreaker is a pseudo Warrior/Mesmer and that Holo is a pseudo Engineer/Warrior. What I am saying is that Canach fits into that mold in that he is essentially a Warrior E-Spec, albeit a NPC one for now, that is Warrior/Engineer. He has heavy armor, his shield skills from when he was an enemy are effectively warrior shield skills with shield mastery traited with the 6th bonus from Runes of the Guardian, with effective utility skills granting him his mines and explosives. Said mines and explosives are what he is known for, because lets be honest a base warrior NPC is just a beat stick.

If we were to assume this all to be the case I'd say he is a warrior E-Spec that gained gadgets as the new utility and the traitline would be heavily focused on blast finishers and explosions. I bet he was a test template for a potential E-Spec for HoT that got shelved for the time being.

Seems like we are talking past each other, yeah, since you didn't respond to anything I just said.

Yes, I know that spellbreaker is supposed to be the warrior/mesmer fusion. But at the same time, I acknowledge that Anet is not designing stuff like this to directly steal from the class they get fused with.They are bending the thing they are taking from one class to fit more in with the class they are mixing it into. Like how spellbreaker is not using magical spells to counter magic, but they use their strength, willpower and training instead.

You will never see, for example, a thief using nature magic with animal spirits and plants growing rapidly. Because that is not fitting the thief thematic. They could give thief something that resembles ranger mechanics, like giving them henchmen they can send out to kill enemies for example, but it will keep getting thief flavoured.

What you are proposing here for Canach would be exactly this: taking engineer thematics directly out from them and reapplying them on warrior instead of taking some thematical aspects of the engineer and bend them to fit the warrior theme and aesthetic.Canach's mines are screaming engineer, not warrior.You won't say the same to other elite specs which are defined in that fashion, even if spellbreaker uses some aspects of the mesmer thematic, you won't say "that elite spec looks like it belongs to mesmer". Same for holosmith, you won't say "looks like a warrior elite spec" or mirage "looks like a thief for me".

Because these elite specs are still thematically flavoured for their own class.And I highly doubt that Canach was supposed to be an elite spec prototype at some point, it just makes no sense. This is the whole thing with the Sunqua Peaks boss again, for which some people claim it must be an elementalist spec in testing. People see a character and think it needs to be a tested elite spec, while most likely Anet just created a boss character for the story we can fight (and in Canach's case, have further to do with him as an ally).

I can see Canach representing an elite spec in the future. But it won't be based on what he currently is. Maybe he will pick up a new weapon and introduce a new engineer elite spec to us, but I am fairly sure that he won't have anything to do with the next warrior elite spec whatsoever.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I am saying that he is a Warrior/Engineer not just Warrior. Kind of how Anet described Holo as an Engineer/Warrior.

That's not how this system works.

If they design stuff like this, they ask themselves "how would class x do stuff similar to class y?".Like how spellbreaker is
not
casting illusions themselves, but they see through illusions and break magic not by using refined anti-magic spells, but they break them with a combination of hard training and willpower.

Or to use the holosmith example again: holosmith is not carrying alot of weapons with themselves they are well trained in switching and adapting like warriors, but instead they have built a device that allows them to
create
all weapons they are in need of.

Mirage is not using shadows and sneaking to ambush their enemies unseen, instead they are very clearly seen by the enemy multiple times with their clones and they use their clones to ambush enemies with a numbers advantage instead of the element of surprise.

Canach and his highly advanced usage of explosives is not "how would warrior do engineer things", it is just directly stealing engineer things.If you want a warrior/engineer thing, then an appropriate thing would be something like a warrior being able to build barricades from the scrap on the battlefield. This would give warrior some of the master craftsman theme of the engineer, but not directly steal
their
way to do stuff by taking highly advanced technology from them.

I personally think that Canach might even be a great character to introduce the new engineer elite spec to us.

I think we are talking past each other a little bit here. Anet has said that several of the E-Specs were flavored to be what the old dual classes were and they have explicitly state that Spellbreaker is a pseudo Warrior/Mesmer and that Holo is a pseudo Engineer/Warrior. What I am saying is that Canach fits into that mold in that he is essentially a Warrior E-Spec, albeit a NPC one for now, that is Warrior/Engineer. He has heavy armor, his shield skills from when he was an enemy are effectively warrior shield skills with shield mastery traited with the 6th bonus from Runes of the Guardian, with effective utility skills granting him his mines and explosives. Said mines and explosives are what he is known for, because lets be honest a base warrior NPC is just a beat stick.

If we were to assume this all to be the case I'd say he is a warrior E-Spec that gained gadgets as the new utility and the traitline would be heavily focused on blast finishers and explosions. I bet he was a test template for a potential E-Spec for HoT that got shelved for the time being.

Seems like we are talking past each other, yeah, since you didn't respond to anything I just said.

Yes, I know that spellbreaker is supposed to be the warrior/mesmer fusion. But at the same time, I acknowledge that Anet is not designing stuff like this to directly steal from the class they get fused with.They are bending the thing they are taking from one class to fit more in with the class they are mixing it into. Like how spellbreaker is not using magical spells to counter magic, but they use their strength, willpower and training instead.

You will never see, for example, a thief using nature magic with animal spirits and plants growing rapidly. Because that is not fitting the thief thematic. They could give thief something that resembles ranger mechanics, like giving them henchmen they can send out to kill enemies for example, but it will keep getting thief flavoured.No but you do see them using Physical skills, and you see Dragon Hunters using traps.What you are proposing here for Canach would be exactly this: taking engineer thematics directly out from them and reapplying them on warrior instead of taking some thematical aspects of the engineer and bend them to fit the warrior theme and aesthetic.No, I am saying his spec is a warrior that got a set of explosive themed gadgets as a utility, much like how many e-specs have been gaining other class utilities reimagined for the new spec.Canach's mines are screaming engineer, not warrior.They scream mines given to a warrior espec via gadget utilities.You won't say the same to other elite specs which are defined in that fashion, even if spellbreaker uses some aspects of the mesmer thematic, you won't say "that elite spec looks like it belongs to mesmer". Same for holosmith, you won't say "looks like a warrior elite spec" or mirage "looks like a thief for me".And yet DD gets physical skills, and DH gets traps, and tempest gets shouts, and SB and weavers get stances, and Druid gets glyphs, and scrappers and chronos get wells all themed to the new especs.Because these elite specs are still thematically flavoured for their own class.With utilities merged from other classes. Still does not refute him being a warrior espec with gadgets as a utility.And I highly doubt that Canach was supposed to be an elite spec prototype at some point, it just makes no sense. This is the whole thing with the Sunqua Peaks boss again, for which some people claim it must be an elementalist spec in testing. People see a character and think it needs to be a tested elite spec, while most likely Anet just created a boss character for the story we can fight (and in Canach's case, have further to do with him as an ally).Everyone thinks the SP boss is their new espec, in Canach's case he is in heavy armor, uses a sword, uses a shield with shield skills that directly mirror warrior shield skills with shield mastery traited with runes of the guardian equipped.

There is more sufficient evidence that he is a warrior base with utilities granting him mines than him being an engineer base.

I can see Canach representing an elite spec in the future. But it won't be based on what he currently is. Maybe he will pick up a new weapon and introduce a new engineer elite spec to us, but I am fairly sure that he won't have anything to do with the next warrior elite spec whatsoever.Canach is a warrior at the moment, perhaps he'll change classes like Rytlock though to showcase a new espec.

Really though I think you don't want any new espec to get one of engineer utility types, which is fine, I would have preferred if each espec granted entirely new utility types rather than reinventing existing types.

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@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

I am not opposed to other classes getting utility types from engineer, with the exception of kits, since that mechanic has to come with a huge price.

Elixirs, gadgets, and turrets can be given to other classes in my opinion, but they should still be flavoured for these other classes. Like giving ranger turrets which are thematically totems, for example, or giving elixirs to necromancer, which are magical potions.

Gadgets should also get flavoured for other classes. And if you are honest, then gadgets are basically the same like physical skills. They are just fancy animations to trigger an effect, oftenly associated with hard CC and working on the charge basis.Physical skills share all of this.

Hence why I doubt that warrior gets gadgets at all, but if they give them gadgets, then they should still be flavoured for warrior. Like I said, like creating a barrier on the field to block attacks which is made out of wood or metal. But I don't see warrior getting mines, since this is even directly a gadget skill from engineer (throw mine).

We will see what Anet will give to warrior, but I still think that the "evidence" that Canach is a warrior just because he can hold a sword and shield and uses heavy armor (which engineer was initially supposed to do btw) is pretty weak.

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@"Kodama.6453" said:We will see what Anet will give to warrior, but I still think that the "evidence" that Canach is a warrior just because he can hold a sword and shield and uses heavy armor (which engineer was initially supposed to do btw) is pretty weak.

You do realize that you keep ignoring where I call out that his shield skills are warrior shield skills with shield mastery traited and runes of the guardian equipped right? That's rather strong evidence for my case. Stating that engi was supposed to be heavy armor when Canach post dates that by a great deal is a foundation built on sand.

Furthermore mines aren't even an engineer specific skill in PvE:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mine_(Whispers_Agent)

So I'll retract my previous statement on Canach being some Warrior/Engineer espec and instead say with 100% certainty that he is simply a warrior who knows a vendor that specializes in mines.

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