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HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.


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@Dante.1508 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.Do we really need to search for the number of times you've said you are no longer playing this game?Because the posts are there.

I do i take breaks my last break was 9 months.. I come back hoping the game will get overhauls in the direction it was sold to me as at GW2 release. Nothing you say will ever change that.

You can always sit in core areas like apparently you want, what's your problem exactly? You want to hold "1" on a different mob?...and what exactly were you told when they sold gw2 to you at release?

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.

the fact that the shatterer got buffed is proof that core is too easy.see i can use that argument as well.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

Those were better days.

Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectlya good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottompretty much like a REAL society

A good game is one where you cant lose or have to learn

when i came to this game, i couldnt dodge AT ALL. i suck at platforming , and i really HATE it.but i still completed vezirs tower. no portal. took my almost a day of cursing, but i DID it.

And that's the actual reward you are supposed to get from this game, the sense of acomplishment, of being able to overcome obstacles, and learn through frustration, same as in pvp when you face that beast of your guild who just wipes the floor with everyone else, but after thousands of duels you manage to win a few.

Yet today gamers are so lame, they just want the shiny piece of crap or title you get after you've completed something big, they want it so hard they are willing to pay real money for it, just to show it of, even if they couldn't even win it on easy mode or by cheating.

Those who won't enjoy even the easiest challenge, (let's face it, this game as it is, is no more than a walk on the park for someone with a learning mentality) but won't pay for the skip either, they come here to cry the game is too hard, but what's actually happening is they don't want to learn.

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@Dante.1508 said:I just attempted night of Fire in pof on an ele.. haha, yeah no.. 10+ (Some were insta kills) deaths become rinse repeat really not fun after you die so many times a customer gets frustrated angry and wants the mission just to end so they can leave.. and in my case stop using said ele..

Actually, a good ele, who took the time to learn his skills, rotations, etc. Would tell you it's not hard at all, it just takes time and practice, maybe what is pissing you off, is not the difficulty of the mission, but maybe tryharding a game that wasn't design for customers like you.. who won't take the time to learn but still want to go through all the content like if it's just taking the trash out.People want gw2 to be like the next fall guys, a game that everyone can pick up and play, but even if this game is heavily casual friendly, at the end it's core design is the same as in any other mmorpg, a game about progression, time, knowledge, dedication, and such.

I even spent the whole day copying metabattle builds, building armor and weapons needed in hope that my ele would be useful..Nope its done.Ele can die in a fire as far as i'm concerned.

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

Average players love HoT and find core laughably easy. We want more HoT.

No they really don't, i talk to guildies daily and frustration is big in hot and lesser so pof.. Its a large aspect of why so many leave or take breaks.. Enjoyable content you can go through is fun, content that continually bashes you until you quit isn't (thats actually called bully mechanics).

Well based on your first few sentences on this same comment, i'd say not you or any of your guildmates can be taken seriously, or used to represent all of the community, and the same goes for the first guy who said that about average players, I know people who hated it, I know people who loved it, I myself wanted more and more of that style of content because if I wanted a dumb braindead game i'd be playing an android mmorpg, but well.. pof was luckluster to say the least so that was it for me.Leave that to pvp or raids.
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@battledrone.8315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

Ok well thought, how about this one, go to any mmo, find a super easy mission with a good reward, and try to calculate how much premium items this people are wearing, now go to a endgame super hardcore content and do it again...If you really belive what's important of this type of games is to just sell copies like if it was a singleplayer game, then you are pretty naive, I mean, there's a reason even singleplayers started to build DLC, and cosmetic crap....

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

So you are actually saying you would eat a plain cheese burger every single day just beacause it's easy to cook? Plus, if the content is challenging, wouldn't it meant people will repeat it? What happened that made players clear tables in record time and then just stop playing? Was it too braindead to even play again maybe? ... Isn't it better for anet to deliver repeatable content so they can take more time to produce the next patch?It's amusing how you can stand by a product that's actually sinking in quality as if it is something good, but meh, this is what's left of the real mmorpg communities I guess.

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:HOT is indeed a lot harder than any of the GW2 content, but I wouldn't want it changed.

Yes, hero points often can't be solood. But it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to ask in map chat for players to help out. Players in GW2 are very helpful and there are often large groups of players flocking through HoT's maps.

No, it isn't Dark Souls hard. Dark Souls is easier than HoT's content and more forgiving. You've simply run into the first true obstacle in the game: content that is a bit of a challenge, and now you may find that the builds you've been using all this time aren't good enough.

Yes, the map design is frustrating to navigate. It is what it is. Vertical maps are a pain.

Yes, mobs are much tougher and more deadly than anywhere else in the game. But I think it is important to note why they are so much tougher. It's because most builds are really really bad. Players either go full glas cannon, with no defensive traits or skills what so ever, or they just do so little damage, that combat takes forever. I needed to revise my own build to deal with HoT, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Build issue is kinda a result of core. Core does not really matter much what build you use so you end up with the thinking what you run is great then hot comes and shows you werent as good you thought then a mmo is designed for solo it kinda failed its s a mmo you are after all supposed to play with others. Most issues could be solved by ramping difficulty up slowly in core so a learning curve exist

they even had to nerf the starter zones, so how well do you think that will work out? never mind the fact, they would have to reverse all the other nerfs they have made over the years. we are talking about many manhours for the purpose of getting a smaller revenue. i wouldnt hold my breath on that one

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

What proof? See, you don't even undersand why it was nerfed and then you come up with things like that as a supposed argument for your "truths". It got nerfed because after the obvious initial rise of activity when everyone was sitting in hot maps to complete the content/achievements/collections/whatever they wanted AND the release of
another expansion+LW episodes
, people are divided between zones more than before. Less people in ONE zone, because there's CONSTANTLY more zones in the game equals harder time to gather people needed to complete the content, which wasn't the problem before for obvious reasons. It doesn't prove anything you claim it does and it's perfectly understandable. Stop trying to bend the facts to match your agenda.

if you believe, that ANY company will throw resources at a project, that isnt necessary, then i have some prime real estate to sell youno, they saw the server stats, and did the things, they thought would helpwhat OTHER reasons would there be for a nerf of this kind?

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@Dante.1508 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

They didn't nerf the right aspects, thats the issue, at least my issue..

hot will never click with casuals, since you cant nerf the maps. even without mobs i still wouldnt like it.and the story doesnt help either, good lord, what were they thinking?

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

The core game which sold 5 million never had 5000 active instances either. If it was so popular it should've had (using your number) 25000 ACTIVE instances, but it never had that many. Not even close

and that is industry standard. they still had over a mio players, that was ready for more. a number, that was magically halfed with the arrival pof.i expect pof to to have roughly the same effect. now youre looking at 200-300 k sales for cantha. i wont be surprised if ncsoft has to step in again

How do you figure they had over a million players when HOT launched?Your source about that number halved with the arrival of POF?

So let me get this, it's industry standard for a game to lose 90% of their playerbase and no cause for concern, or cause for that core game to make changes, but if an expansion loses players it's the end of the world and it's not an industry standard. Nice logic there

never said PLAYERS, but AFAIR, they sold something like 1,2 mio hot copies in the 1st month.the source game again? it was some article about a month after pof launch, where they confirmed something like ½ mio sales in the 1st monthand they ARE trying to do something about it. that is why you see all those hated nerfs. difficulty spikes are remnants from the old arcade games,and they are finally on the way out .it is also much harder to sell a new game to person, if they havent finished the 1st one yet

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@"battledrone.8315" said:hot will never click with casuals, since you cant nerf the maps. even without mobs i still wouldnt like it.

At this point, the only thing I have to say is: "Who cares?"

Most of the maps have aged incredibly well. Leveling up the masteries actually does feel like you're unlocking new ways to navigate the entire space — even the PoF mounts often feel more powerful, more game-changing in HoT maps than in PoF or Season 4 maps. Various things I found annoying before, I actually like now, because I built up my tools for exploring the maps and also they sorta clicked.

While it's still not my favorite part of the game, it helps provide the context for everything else. And some of the ways the maps tried to surprise you and challenge you make for good experiences long after you're mastered those bits. Dodging a Mordrem Sniper's big attack feels great. AOE-bombing a whole pack of Pocket Raptors to death feels great. Cheesing your way past the Avatar of Balthazar feels great. Saving the whole Dragon's Stand meta with a timely rotation from run-around squad to boss squad feels great. Flying a Griffon through Verdant Brink feels AMAZING.

I want more people to experience all these things, even if they terrify you a little bit when you first encounter them. The payoff is there, and it really doesn't take a lot of repetition to get to it. (Like I said before, I mostly avoid repetition in this game.)

It's okay not to like it. But it's amazing to me how "casual" has been redefined to mean "I don't want to learn anything, ever, or experience novel gameplay in any form." Because one of the hallmarks of casual play in my mind is a focus on entertaining experiences.

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@kraai.7265 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

So you are actually saying you would eat a plain cheese burger every single day just beacause it's easy to cook? Plus, if the content is challenging, wouldn't it meant people will repeat it? What happened that made players clear tables in record time and then just stop playing? Was it too braindead to even play again maybe? ... Isn't it better for anet to deliver repeatable content so they can take more time to produce the next patch?It's amusing how you can stand by a product that's actually sinking in quality as if it is something good, but meh, this is what's left of the real mmorpg communities I guess.

no, im saying, that macd and burger king are making big money, because people like easy things. most people could prolly make a much better burger themselves,but they cant even be bothered to try. if people liked the HARD way, they wouldnt sell so many dishwashers etc.

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@ASP.8093 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:hot will never click with casuals, since you cant nerf the maps. even without mobs i still wouldnt like it.

At this point, the only thing I have to say is: "Who cares?"

Most of the maps have aged incredibly well. Leveling up the masteries actually does feel like you're unlocking new ways to navigate the entire space — even the PoF mounts often feel more powerful, more game-changing in HoT maps than in PoF or Season 4 maps. Various things I found annoying before, I actually like now, because I built up my tools for exploring the maps and also they sorta
clicked.

While it's still not my favorite part of the game, it helps provide the context for everything else. And some of the ways the maps tried to surprise you and challenge you make for good experiences long after you're mastered those bits. Dodging a Mordrem Sniper's big attack feels great. AOE-bombing a whole pack of Pocket Raptors to death feels great. Cheesing your way past the Avatar of Balthazar feels great. Saving the whole Dragon's Stand meta with a timely rotation from run-around squad to boss squad feels great. Flying a Griffon through Verdant Brink feels AMAZING.

I want more people to experience all these things, even if they terrify you a little bit when you first encounter them. The payoff is there, and it really doesn't take a lot of repetition to get to it. (Like I said before, I mostly
avoid
repetition in this game.)

It's okay not to like it. But it's amazing to me how "casual" has been redefined to mean "I don't want to learn anything, ever, or experience novel gameplay in any form." Because one of the hallmarks of casual play in my mind is a focus on
entertaining experiences
.

the payoff was there for YOU. lets see, what category would computer games be listed under...food? no. pets? nada. gardening? nope.oh wait, they are actually in the ENTERTAINMENT category. what a coincidence...

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

So you are actually saying you would eat a plain cheese burger every single day just beacause it's easy to cook? Plus, if the content is challenging, wouldn't it meant people will repeat it? What happened that made players clear tables in record time and then just stop playing? Was it too braindead to even play again maybe? ... Isn't it better for anet to deliver repeatable content so they can take more time to produce the next patch?It's amusing how you can stand by a product that's actually sinking in quality as if it is something good, but meh, this is what's left of the real mmorpg communities I guess.

no, im saying, that macd and burger king are making big money, because people like easy things. most people could prolly make a much better burger themselves,but they cant even be bothered to try. if people liked the HARD way, they wouldnt sell so many dishwashers etc.

Well, that's certainly getting way off the mark for gaming, isn't it? Do you walk to work every day, or drive? Maybe you ride your bicycle? Hey, tractors make farming way too easy, maybe they should go back to manually plowing fields? Do you own a washer and dryer for your laundry, or are you still doing it by hand at a stream/river? Maybe Mc D and Burger King make big money because of people like how I used to be, instead? You know, people that show up for their construction job at sunrise, and work 14 hours, and decide to grab dinner on the way home? Maybe people use dishwashers so that they can have a bit more down time after a busy day at work? Maybe people game for the same reasons, instead of treating it like that full time job they report to every day?

There's a whole laundry list of reasons people opt for conveniences these days aside from your catchall of "they're just lazy". I may not agree with "this is too hard, it needs to be nerfed", but I'm not going to just jump to "well, if you weren't so lazy, you could do it" either.

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@battledrone.8315 said:the source game again? it was some article about a month after pof launch, where they confirmed something like ½ mio sales in the 1st month

When someone post outright lies, links that support further claims are required because their credibility is shattered.So I'll be waiting for that link claiming that POF sold 500k copies.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

What proof? See, you don't even undersand why it was nerfed and then you come up with things like that as a supposed argument for your "truths". It got nerfed because after the obvious initial rise of activity when everyone was sitting in hot maps to complete the content/achievements/collections/whatever they wanted AND the release of
another expansion+LW episodes
, people are divided between zones more than before. Less people in ONE zone, because there's CONSTANTLY more zones in the game equals harder time to gather people needed to complete the content, which wasn't the problem before for obvious reasons. It doesn't prove anything you claim it does and it's perfectly understandable. Stop trying to bend the facts to match your agenda.

if you believe, that ANY company will throw resources at a project, that isnt necessary, then i have some prime real estate to sell youno, they saw the server stats, and did the things, they thought would helpwhat OTHER reasons would there be for a nerf of this kind?

How is this even negating what I said? Literally, walk me through your thought process where apparently what you said somehow denies what I said. Step after step.

The nerf was needed, because there's less people in one map due to release of more content/maps in form of another expansion +many LS episodes over time. Where did I say it wasn't needed? What I said is that your take on this nerf is wrong because you want to make it fit your agenda and nothing in your answer contested what I said..

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@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

Just play PoF. Tbh, if I have a good open world build with an elite specialization, i don't normally die in open world in HoT. Yeah for bosses I might need some help, but I think it's fine. HoT has a niche for the masochists in the community and I don't want to take that from them. Ask map for help if you're HP farming. Usually outside metas they're very willing to help. Or heck, make your own group, people will join. It's happened for me.

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@kraai.7265 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

Ok well thought, how about this one, go to any mmo, find a super easy mission with a good reward, and try to calculate how much premium items this people are wearing, now go to a endgame super hardcore content and do it again...If you really belive what's important of this type of games is to just sell copies like if it was a singleplayer game, then you are pretty naive, I mean, there's a reason even singleplayers started to build DLC, and cosmetic kitten....

Actually more casuals buy premium stuff than hardcores, because hardcores are a lot smaller population of players.

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

They didn't nerf the right aspects, thats the issue, at least my issue..

hot will never click with casuals, since you cant nerf the maps. even without mobs i still wouldnt like it.and the story doesnt help either, good lord, what were they thinking?

You can, you lower the enemies damage ticks, lower how many conditions enemies put on customers, and lower the scaling damage at hero points that would go a long way to making hot more accessible over night.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

What proof? See, you don't even undersand why it was nerfed and then you come up with things like that as a supposed argument for your "truths". It got nerfed because after the obvious initial rise of activity when everyone was sitting in hot maps to complete the content/achievements/collections/whatever they wanted AND the release of
another expansion+LW episodes
, people are divided between zones more than before. Less people in ONE zone, because there's CONSTANTLY more zones in the game equals harder time to gather people needed to complete the content, which wasn't the problem before for obvious reasons. It doesn't prove anything you claim it does and it's perfectly understandable. Stop trying to bend the facts to match your agenda.

if you believe, that ANY company will throw resources at a project, that isnt necessary, then i have some prime real estate to sell youno, they saw the server stats, and did the things, they thought would helpwhat OTHER reasons would there be for a nerf of this kind?

How is this even negating what I said? Literally, walk me through your thought process where apparently what you said somehow denies what I said. Step after step.

The nerf was needed, because there's less people in one map due to release of more content/maps in form of another expansion +many LS episodes over time. Where did I say it wasn't needed? What I said is that your take on this nerf is wrong because you want to make it fit your agenda and nothing in your answer contested what I said..

if that was the reason for the nerfs, then they should had nerfed MANY other zones too, as new zones was addedthat didnt happen, because the outcry wasnt large enough to make them botherhot was the stinker, that started it all

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@Dante.1508 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME

You said earlier that casuals don't pay for this game so this is a weird statement.

they HAD millions, but not anymore. out of 5 mio sold boxes, 3½-4 mio went to casuals. . thats over 150 MIO $ pretty much from start.those 150 mio is the major reason for the easiness of core. they wanted those money, but they didnt want to make more content for the casuals.that is why we are here now

Source? You posted numerous times your claims about sales but I've never seen anything that verifies them. There is a confusion and debate on this thread alone on what the word "casual" even mean, I'm sure the data you have will not only clearly state your numbers, but also provide an accurate definition of the word "casual" that is accepted by everyone.

go to any mmo and find a super easy mission with a good reward. its gonna cramped with players there.now go to the endgame zones with all the HARDCORE content, and see if you can find even a handful of players.fast and easy sells, slow and hard not so much.

Ok well thought, how about this one, go to any mmo, find a super easy mission with a good reward, and try to calculate how much premium items this people are wearing, now go to a endgame super hardcore content and do it again...If you really belive what's important of this type of games is to just sell copies like if it was a singleplayer game, then you are pretty naive, I mean, there's a reason even singleplayers started to build DLC, and cosmetic kitten....

Actually more casuals buy premium stuff than hardcores, because hardcores are a lot smaller population of players.

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

They didn't nerf the right aspects, thats the issue, at least my issue..

hot will never click with casuals, since you cant nerf the maps. even without mobs i still wouldnt like it.and the story doesnt help either, good lord, what were they thinking?

You can, you lower the enemies damage ticks, lower how many conditions enemies put on customers, and lower the scaling damage at hero points that would go a long way to making hot more accessible over night.

accessible, yes. not enjoyable. the maps are simply not made for it, and the story is way too bloatedBTW shouldnt it be possible to see how many has finished the hot chapter in AP?

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:the source game again? it was some article about a month after pof launch, where they confirmed something like ½ mio sales in the 1st month

When someone post outright lies, links that support further claims are required because their credibility is shattered.So I'll be waiting for that link claiming that POF sold 500k copies.

do you have another number? they werent exactly bragging about it, so 500k would seem reasonable IMO

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@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

So you are actually saying you would eat a plain cheese burger every single day just beacause it's easy to cook? Plus, if the content is challenging, wouldn't it meant people will repeat it? What happened that made players clear tables in record time and then just stop playing? Was it too braindead to even play again maybe? ... Isn't it better for anet to deliver repeatable content so they can take more time to produce the next patch?It's amusing how you can stand by a product that's actually sinking in quality as if it is something good, but meh, this is what's left of the real mmorpg communities I guess.

no, im saying, that macd and burger king are making big money, because people like easy things. most people could prolly make a much better burger themselves,but they cant even be bothered to try. if people liked the HARD way, they wouldnt sell so many dishwashers etc.

Well, that's certainly getting way off the mark for gaming, isn't it? Do you walk to work every day, or drive? Maybe you ride your bicycle? Hey, tractors make farming way too easy, maybe they should go back to manually plowing fields? Do you own a washer and dryer for your laundry, or are you still doing it by hand at a stream/river? Maybe Mc D and Burger King make big money because of people like how I used to be, instead? You know, people that show up for their construction job at sunrise, and work 14 hours, and decide to grab dinner on the way home? Maybe people use dishwashers so that they can have a bit more down time after a busy day at work? Maybe people game for the same reasons, instead of treating it like that full time job they report to every day?

There's a whole laundry list of reasons people opt for conveniences these days aside from your catchall of "they're just lazy". I may not agree with "this is too hard, it needs to be nerfed", but I'm not going to just jump to "well, if you weren't so lazy, you could do it" either.

having a good reason for convenience doesnt stop those without good reasons from using them.and convenience IS laziness. people have obviously survived without them before, so they aren necessary per sedoesnt mean, that i want to live without them, but i recognize them , for what they arejust see what the pocket calculator did for the average kids math skills...

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@battledrone.8315 said:do you have another number? they werent exactly bragging about it, so 500k would seem reasonable IMO

Beautiful. Makes claim, doesn't support claim, asks for "another number".Btw if you have forgotten this isn't just about how many sales POF had, but also how many HOT had, because your argument was that HOT sold a lot better than POF, 1 million versus 500k. An argument that you haven't supported with proper links yet.

As for how "reasonable" 500k sales are: there are 251,852 gw2efficiency accounts that own HOT and 248,440 accounts that own POFIn other words, you are saying that half of the owners of POF have a gw2efficiency account, that might be true but I find it highly unlikely. Further, if gw2efficiency was such a high percentage of the population then you'd think the direction of the game would be very different

@battledrone.8315 said:BTW shouldnt it be possible to see how many has finished the hot chapter in AP?

179,887 gw2efficiency accounts completed HOT, that's 71.4% of total HOT accounts179,268 gw2efficiency accounts completed POF, that's 72.2% of total POF accounts

I'd call the numbers very stable.

Edit:For reference 287,993 own Core209,735 gw2efficiency accounts completed Core, that's 73% of total Core accountsIt's interesting to note that more players bought HOT or POF than completed Core

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