The Sad Truth why DPS in PvP needs to be high and Why the Feb Patch was nonsense

[otto.5684]

@Shao.7236 said:So, no one ever mentions this but most classes if not every single of 'em now have to play as Berserker to do relevant damage instead of getting away with Marauder. How's that a bad thing? It was one of the main issue.

Now bunker classes can actually make many offensive builds crack under elaborated pressure which is not a bad thing? Said offensive builds can also dismantle bunker builds given the right plays.

Except that mostly is not the case. Small HP pool cannot afford not to use HP. Even some medium HP pool struggle with that. And even then, the damage is not strong enough to break most bunkerish builds, in team fights or solo. Bursting someone down now requires them to make multiple mistakes. Many builds cannot afford this level of time. Fights drag. All fights, everywhere. Most competitive builds need to be chain CCed to be downed.

Sadly, some of these issues preceded Feb patch. Damage needed to go up (on some builds at least) not down. And making the game play heavily revolve around chain CC is just fucking terrible.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Well small HP pool build became extinct xD. Okay not really true but Weaver has really bad stand . Thief became a decap build more then ever. The problem I basically what I saw was they only tweak numbers without looking into OP traits and skills and neither did they looked into how condi dmg works. Because before all this they always pushed condi build in PvE then nerfed them again months later after they realized they were too OP for PvP actually they repeated that multiply time with different builds. For ele they went for and back multiply times.

Also I think bunkers are legit way of playing so long not everyone is playing it , the matchmaking need some kind of logic for builds I know it tries to match same classes on both sides if it can but sometimes it really bad .Maybe the matchmaking could give some kind of feedback what is needed.

The underlying problem I see is there is no one vision of how they classes and mechanic should behave in GW2 . The people who had the visions at the beginning properly aren't at Arena NET any more because of this the game is full of contradictions this doesn't apply only for PvP but for PvE as well.

[otto.5684]

@"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:Well small HP pool build became extinct xD. Okay not really true but Weaver has really bad stand . Thief became a decap build more then ever. The problem I basically saw was they only tweak numbers without looking into OP traits and skills and neither did they looked into how condi dmg works. Because before all this they always pushed condi build in PvE then nerfed them again months later after they realized they were too OP for PvP actually they repeated that multiply time with different builds. Actually for ele they went for and back multiply times.

Also I think bunkers are legit way of playing so long not everyone is playing it , the matchmaking need some kind of logic for builds I know it tries to match same classes on both time if it can but sometimes it really bad .Maybe the matchmaking could give some kind of feedback what is needed.

The underlying problem I see is there is no one vision of how they classes and mechanic should behave in GW2 . The people who had the visions at the beginning properly aren't at Arena NET any more because of this the game is full of contradictions this doesn't apply only for PvP but for PvE as well.

Well... some of these issues are complicated. This will be long...

I do think Anet had some logic behind the Feb changes. Example, damage. Pre Feb, there was talk before about possibly increasing the HP pool. Why? Couple of power builds were doing pretty high damage. At the same time, many condi builds lacked the damage necessary to compete and needed more intensity. A person who has half baked knowledge of the system would conclude that the solution is to nerf damage. Which no surprise is exactly what Anet did.

However, this was a facade. The issue was not high damage, at all. What were the strongest power builds pre Feb? Holo, herald, thief, soul beast and spell breaker. What do all these have in common, beside high damage? 2 things, a lot of CC and good ability to disengage. For SB it was just more CC instead of damage. And no surprise, with the exception of warrior and soul beast, which are were over nerfed, they still are the meta power builds.

How about axe/axe warrior? I used to play this sometimes. It has insanely high burst. Way higher than any of the other builds. Do you know why this was not remotely competitive? It does not have CC. Neither weapon had any utility or CC. What kept it a bit in contention was the ability to punish enemies mistakes. Enemy makes 1-2 mistakes, they are out. Now... the margin of error is so large, that power weapons with no CC are completely useless.

Switching to the condi side, what builds were the meta? FB and weaver. To a lesser extent mirage and core necro. What do all 4 had in common? Spam condi, and again, no surprise, tons of CC. Core condi guardian always does higher damage than FB in sPvP. You know why it was not meta back then? No CC, no disengage. I would argue that none meta condi builds from pre Feb, are the biggest beneficiary of the Feb patch. But to a large extent, they are still out of competition.

Then... CC... and boons. Anet did not miss the boat here, the missed the ocean. As I noted above, CC is the common theme among all competitive builds pre Feb. So guess what happened when Anet decided to nerf stability and CC breaks? If you guessed that a meta devolved around CC was a huge factor in, is now centered on CC, you would be right. CC, to an extent was countered by stability, which itself was countered with boon rip. Yet only stability was nerfed. Issue is not all classes/builds had access to much stability. FB had a ridiculous amount of stability, so nerfing a bit made sense. Many other builds did not. But instead of Anet nerfing FB access to stability resonably, they nuked it from orbit and also nerfed it for builds that did not even have enough. Same applies to might and quickness. Few builds had easy access to high stacks of might. Others had access to high uptime on quickness. These needed nerfing. Instead Anet did a blanket nuke to all boons from orbit. Why? Cuz again, they did not understand enough to make correct decisions.

Which takes us to blanket decisions. This is really the theme of the entire Feb patch. Few builds had high damage. NERF ALL DAMAGE. Few builds have access to many boons? NERF ALL BOONS. Few builds have access to high sustain. NERF ALL SUSTAIN. Yet, there are many builds that did not access to all of that. How about them? Too bad suckers. Combine this, with clearly lazy 300 sec CD on passive traits, one dodge for mirage and so forth of clearly "to be fixed later" changes, and you get here.

There is more, like complete lack of continuity between PvE and PvP, which needs a desperate thread on its own. The continuous removal of runes, amulets and sometimes traits/utilities by nerfing the fuck out of them, and you have less and less options. Balance patches that can best be described as microscopic. In any case, previously none meta condi builds were the only beneficiary of the patch. But of course, was not enough for them to become meta, cuz they had other issues to begin with. Everything else is worse. The whole patch is what happens when you have someone makes changes to sPvP, when they all understand surface level and ignore the wisdom gained over 8 years of the game history. Never did the statement "know enough to be dangerous" held more true.

Solution? From this point, weapons that do not have CC or reliable CC, needs their damage upped, significantly. Counter CC needs a buff. And all this needs to be done on class/elite and build basis. None of the blanket bull shit.

[Naqam a.6521]

How to buff Core specs?5 sec weapon swap > more pewpew !more engine fluency !

edit: also 2 enemies will contest the captured point by 5% each sec , vs 1 bunker

edit: Sigils + Runes for Core1 sec swap weapon for Core Warriors +Stacking buff for constantly switching (double buff , for using ranged weapon + meele)