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the grind for mounts needs to be toned down


KAipurge.2147

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Seems to me that since the game is designed as a progression of story, ANet should be able to assume completion of all previous expansion story content in designing new maps. I'd leave out Living Story/World because those are presented as something you get if you are around, and an optional extra if you weren't during their release window.

That means ANet should be able to assume gliding, updraft, jumping mushrooms, raptor, canyon jumping, skimmer, ride the wind, springer, and high jump for future content. I'm not sure about jackal and shifting sands, because they seemed like they came across as optional extras when I ran through PoF.

Why should ANet design around the assumption that players skipped all preivous content?

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@Gibson.4036 said:Seems to me that since the game is designed as a progression of story, ANet should be able to assume completion of all previous expansion story content in designing new maps. I'd leave out Living Story/World because those are presented as something you get if you are around, and an optional extra if you weren't during their release window.

That means ANet should be able to assume gliding, updraft, jumping mushrooms, raptor, canyon jumping, skimmer, ride the wind, springer, and high jump for future content. I'm not sure about jackal and shifting sands, because they seemed like they came across as optional extras when I ran through PoF.

Why should ANet design around the assumption that players skipped all preivous content?

Indeed, I run in game also into players complaining on end game maps they cannot keep up with the squads or commanders. You only have to take a look at them dressed up in fancy outfits and reskinned weapons to see that they boosted their toons to 80, skipped pretty much everything complaining their gear stats are crap and that it's unfair they have to spend gems on extra content so they can fly too. How about not spending all those gems on skins and spend their resources on good gear and actually play the game as it is intended.

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Any old Everquest players who find it hilarious to see GW2 mounts described as 'a grind in need of toning down?'? Is there even a mount in this game that takes more than a week to get?? The griffon took less than two days. The roller beetle took well under a week. And I don't recall the exact time on the skyscale. But I could have sworn it was also less than a week. All of this while working 75 hrs/week at my old job. What are we even talking about here??

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@"KAipurge.2147" said:I have been an avid Guild wars player since guild wars 1. Over time the mount unlocking in this game has become worse and worse to the point where even just unlocking the new mastery for one of the oldest mounts in the game has become a grind with the XP requirement. The world trek-ing the figure out where the clues lead was enough but tacking the extra XP requirement after all of that is just too much. I could understand if all the mounts were always of use but so many replace others making them useless that making such a grind for a mount that would be useless after another one releases that does its job better makes no sense to me. There are MMO players from Super grindy MMO's like WoW and BDO even saying that they would rather do crazy grindy things in those games than deal with the way guild wars 2 handles mount grinding.

Are we talking achieves here or mastery XP? The mastery XP for the underwater skimmer, while alot, filled before I even took the time to earn the mastery points. Just do metas. Play PoF maps.

And I know what people will say to this already. They will make the same tired excuses for why Anet decided to handle mount unlocks such as Griffon, Rollerbeetle, SKyscale, and even the new MASTERY(which isn't even a new mount)for the skimmer. I guarantee the next expansion will have a new mount that makes all those other listed ones that you spent all your time grinding for obsolete.

I actually doubt it. I expect them to hand us an entirely new mastery altogether. The bases are pretty much covered by the existing mounts.

and then there are those that have them saying that you don't need them whilst they fly away leaving you behind in map runs because the Original 4 mounts cant keep up with the newer ones thus the game tries to force you into participating in the long boring several day time gated rng based grind for the newer mounts.

Most metas don't have you running around that much. So I'm failing to understand how you're left behind. Only in HP runs would this matter, and the only place I felt "left behind" when I hadn't earned the skyscale yet.

I mean I sort of agree the skyscale was long and drawn out. The map currencies are really easy to earn with ice shards and some karma, but the other achieves are still kinda drawn out.

With this MMO the sanest way to approach it is to do things you enjoy, interleaved with long-term goals. Straight up grinding a leggie would suck. So would grinding anything. But when you earn the mount or the leggy, it's that awesome and adds to the activities you enjoy. There's literally no rush on anything with how permanent the progression is.

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I'm fine with currency grind, I think I can even be fine with time gates... but for some reason I got absolutely tilted and dropped Skyscale collections when I saw that I have to start with 50+ parts total of some annoying collections spread around the map in obnoxious locations, sometimes requiring borrowing Skyscale... which you will get dismounted from when picking it.

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Why are all the new players in a hurry to try and get the Giffen and Skyscape mount? I guess because they're flying mounts, but here's the thing, you don't need them. Also, they meant to be legendary mounts that take time to unlock, so take your time. Just play and have fun; you'll unlock them in no time. No need to hurry because once you unlock everything that you wanted, you'll soon enough find that there isn't much left for you to do anyway.

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@"blade eyes.2034" said:Why are all the new players in a hurry to try and get the Giffen and Skyscape mount? I guess because they're flying mounts, but here's the thing, you don't need them. Also, they meant to be legendary mounts that take time to unlock, so take your time. Just play and have fun; you'll unlock them in no time. No need to hurry because once you unlock everything that you wanted, you'll soon enough find that there isn't much left for you to do anyway.

Because as a new player I want to rush for the mounts that make it easy to skip most of the content so when I finish my personal story I can complain how the game is too easy and has no content to complete. :astonished:"GIEF GIEF GIEF! Awwwww there's nothing to do, the rewards totally suck, mimimimi"

Hopefully anet knows better and doesn't even consider any changes based on the threads like this one.

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OP, you'll never win this argument.The people who already have them will resent others being able to get them easier, and will make damn sure to make that opinion known.

ANet isn't interested in lowering the material costs, because they know that for players who have less time to play, often the resource grind will drive them to the gem store to bypass it.

And more insidiously, ANet isn't interested in lowering the time it takes, as that may leave the player enough time to step away from GW2 and play something else, which is time they're not exposed to GW2's FOMO (fear of missing out).

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@Mungrul.9358 said:OP, you'll never win this argument.The people who already have them will resent others being able to get them easier, and will make kitten sure to make that opinion known.

ANet isn't interested in lowering the material costs, because they know that for players who have less time to play, often the resource grind will drive them to the gem store to bypass it.

And more insidiously, ANet isn't interested in lowering the time it takes, as that may leave the player enough time to step away from GW2 and play something else, which is time they're not exposed to GW2's FOMO (fear of missing out).

The materials you need for the mount saddles cannot be bought in the gems store so that is not even an issue so it will drive nobody to the gems store to bypass it. You cannot buy anything in the gems store to bypass the needed materials in the gems store at all. All you can get there is mount skins. Clearly anyone who is saying it's a grind to collect the map resources has not done any map currency gathering until they got to the saddle collection. So if you spend the time gated bits with doing just some gathering you will have all the needed materials to get your saddle without grinding for them.

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And the 250 gold for the Griffon?I've come back recently after a very long absence, and the grind for mastery and mounts is horrible. I've done all but the Warclaw and Skyscale, and I've not even looked in to what I need to do for those.But no, don't go comparing GW2's grind to BDO; it's well known that Korean MMOs feature some of the worst grinds in gaming, so any other MMO will look favourable in comparison. I prefer to compare the grind in GW2 to say Ubisoft open-world games. Mechanically, they're almost identical, but Ubisoft open world games tend to have a lot more respect for players' time. And that's saying something, seeing as the average gamer is quite often put off of Ubisoft games because they're just too big.

I get it Nubarus, you've put a lot of time in to this game, and it's probably the only one you really play at the moment. But you have to realise that you're the exception and not the rule, and that easing the grind a bit might end up benefitting you long term as more players would be more likely to stick around if they felt the game had more respect for their time.And more players means more people to play with, more people using the trading post and more people buying things from the gem store, allowing ANet to stay afloat and deliver more meaningful content instead of padding out what should be simple mount acquisition quests with pointless grind.

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Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

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@"Mungrul.9358" said:OP, you'll never win this argument.

True, but not for the reasons you're suggesting. More because of the fact that it's not some awful never ending "grind" combined with the fact that you simply don't need any of those mounts, so it's not anything urgent you need RIGHT NOW. Sure, you WANT them right now, but if you WANT them then play the content to get them. If you don't want to play it, then... don't. And deal with not having some mounts that aren't actually needed for anything.

The people who already have them will resent others being able to get them easier, and will make kitten sure to make that opinion known.

Nope, that's not the reason. That's your idea about the people that supposedly are all focused on your person and making your life miserable, which just isn't true at all. It's just not a "grind", play the game and you'll get them, that's all there is to it.

ANet isn't interested in lowering the material costs, because they know that for players who have less time to play, often the resource grind will drive them to the gem store to bypass it.

Doubt changing anything about the mounts at this point would bring any significant impact on the overal ingame economy. But putting that aside... yeah, Anet probably isn't interested in lowering the material costs, why should they be?

And more insidiously, ANet isn't interested in lowering the time it takes, as that may leave the player enough time to step away from GW2 and play something else, which is time they're not exposed to GW2's FOMO (fear of missing out).

Maybe. But then again if that was their main goal then they would probably introduce the usual mmo gear treadmil long time ago.

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@"Mungrul.9358" said:And the 250 gold for the Griffon?

Which part of content is locked for you that you absolutely need/deserve the griffon at this very moment?

I've come back recently after a very long absence, and the grind for mastery and mounts is horrible.

It really isn't, you just play through the content, get xp from map-specific events including LS episodes, get mastery points from achievements and/or gather the ones scattered throughout the map and that's it.

But no, don't go comparing GW2's grind to BDO; it's well known that Korean MMOs feature some of the worst grinds in gaming, so any other MMO will look favourable in comparison. I prefer to compare the grind in GW2 to say Ubisoft open-world games. Mechanically, they're almost identical, but Ubisoft open world games tend to have a lot more respect for players' time. And that's saying something, seeing as the average gamer is quite often put off of Ubisoft games because they're just too big.

Which ones?

I get it Nubarus, you've put a lot of time in to this game, and it's probably the only one you really play at the moment. But you have to realise that you're the exception and not the rule, and that easing the grind a bit might end up benefitting you long term as more players would be more likely to stick around if they felt the game had more respect for their time.

Which post/parts of his posts are you answering to exactly here?Not much about this game is actually a "grind". And pretty sure your theory about "just giving players everything for free so they'll stick around" is just false. Why would they stick around? What will they aim for?

instead of padding out what should be simple mount acquisition quests with pointless grind.

It is pretty simple. Not much is "padded out" except for actual time gates, which literally don't let you "grind out everything at ones", so you don't have much of an incentive to even try that or feel like you should be doing it. And if playing through the game's content is "pointless" for you, then... don't do it.

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@Westenev.5289 said:Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

I had zero issues with it since you can obtain plenty of mastery points and xp comes anyway while you do story, events and explore the new maps. If you are in a Guild with a Guildhall with a Tavern upgrade you can obtain a 10% xp boost on all xp. You can also get an Ascended amulet with a 20% xp Enrichment on it so that is a 30% flat xp boost on all xp without that much effort.

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@Nubarus.9268 said:

@"Westenev.5289" said:Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

I had zero issues with it since you can obtain plenty of mastery points and xp comes anyway while you do story, events and explore the new maps. If you are in a Guild with a Guildhall with a Tavern upgrade you can obtain a 10% xp boost on all xp. You can also get an Ascended amulet with a 20% xp Enrichment on it so that is a 30% flat xp boost on all xp without that much effort.

I should note, my experience was back in 2017 when there were no guides or PoF living world episodes. The story practically stopped at the bunny ranch until you could find some exp and the few mastery points that weren't soft-locked by sand portals, "meta events", or impossibly high jumps.

The fact I did it means it's doable, and it's probably much easier today with Lws4, but I didn't have a lot of fun doing the "mount grind" back then.

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

I had zero issues with it since you can obtain plenty of mastery points and xp comes anyway while you do story, events and explore the new maps. If you are in a Guild with a Guildhall with a Tavern upgrade you can obtain a 10% xp boost on all xp. You can also get an Ascended amulet with a 20% xp Enrichment on it so that is a 30% flat xp boost on all xp without that much effort.

I should note, my experience was back in 2017 when there were no guides or PoF living world episodes. The story practically stopped at the bunny ranch until you could find some exp and the few mastery points that weren't soft-locked by sand portals, "meta events", or impossibly high jumps.

The fact I did it means it's doable, and it's probably much easier today with Lws4, but I didn't have a lot of fun doing the "mount grind" back then.

Seems a bit odd since you can obtain 4 easy to aquire mastery points in the Crystal Oasis and do the story up to the High Jump Ranch should have given you 6 mastery points straight up so I completely fail to see how you could not get a Raptor lvl 3 before arriving there. (Harbor, Chef, Roof top and the Memory Puzzle) There are also the Raptor treat collection to bring the total to 5 so it seems like you just rushed through the Crystal Oasis to get to the High Jump Ranch to me............ Btw, I did the whole PoF story at the time of release so I had no help from guides either. The only help I got was when I asked for some either in guild chat or map chat.

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Mounts bring functionality game wide and locking it behind very specific type of content, that truly appeals only for some players is bad game design. I don't have any of the new mounts not because i don't need or want them, or they're expensive, but because i can't bring myself to do all the things i consider extremely tedious and boring in order to unlock them. Lock skins for them behind such content, but locking the mount itself is... bad.

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@soultysugar.5764 said:Mounts bring functionality game wide and locking it behind very specific type of content, that truly appeals only for some players is bad game design. I don't have any of the new mounts not because i don't need or want them, or they're expensive, but because i can't bring myself to do all the things i consider extremely tedious and boring in order to unlock them. Lock skins for them behind such content, but locking the mount itself is... bad.

The only thing you have to do is follow the story and explore the maps. Once you get to the ranch you do the heart and buy a saddle. With the 4 basic mounts you have enough functionality game wide. I didn't really find any of the Griffon, Rollerbeetle or Skyscale collections extremely tedious and boring. Maybe it's because I was not fixating on racing to the finish to get them but was simply doing the tasks in between the stories and mapping. But to each their own.

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This last week I finally did the grinds for the beetle and the gryphon.

Got both done in a single day each. Granted they were super-long play sessions. I'd say one took 4-6 hours and the other 8-10.

  • The only reasons it took this long was on the Beetle there's the one zone-meta event and I did it wrong the first 2 times and didn't get credit, and on the gryphon I did all the group events by joining an LFG group doing a world tour of bosses and they did the ones I needed last, after some 30 other bosses... but because I was getting so much loot and other collections filled up I just shrugged and went with it.

I don't think either was obsessively long. Seemed pretty tame once I actually focused on them.

The base pre-gryphon PoF mounts were all super fast and tied into specific location stories.

I've yet to do war claw or the newer dragon. Well... I did start war claw last night. In about 1 hour I have maybe 6 things unlocked. It seems like all that one would take is finding a WvW group that was actively zerging away and staying with them. Given that the one group I did follow had about 80% of it's members riding the things, I imagine getting it would be easy if I had any clue what I was doing in WvW (people keep calling out weird letters in chat that I don't yet know - if I did, I'd have gotten maybe twice as far).

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Mounts are like an itch that you cant scratch. Once you finally are able to scratch the itch you forget about it. I rarely use my mounts anymore other than my sckscale and warclaw. All the others are merely a means to an end.

Did I enjoy getting them? Not really because I am impatient. Does that mean I should proclaim from the rooftops that things should be adjusted so I can have my way and get them faster? No. There are quiet a few things I hated jumping through the hoops for in this game but I did it because everyone else had to. Its like a right of passage, the higher level of mastery you see a person has the more hoops they have jumped through.

So people who have a problem with the way things are you might as well accept the fact its not going to be changed.

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Thinking back to mount unlocks, and masteries, and what I thought then vs. now. I enjoyed the griffon scavenger hunt. It never really occurred to me that it was particularly grindy or boring. OTOH, I found the Skyscale more tedious to unlock, even though it is now the mount I use most. As for the UW skimmer unlock, I found that trivial overall. I tend to just play the game (I consider myself definitely a 'casual' player). I've never raided, and I just like the story and exploring the world and the amazing artwork. I used to think I'd never unlock all the masteries, especially the HoT ones, mostly because I suck at the mini-adventures. But by just playing, I now have all the masteries done, minus the raid ones.

Overall, I think ANet have done a fairly decent job with the mounts. Some are better/more useful than others, but overall, they integrate well into the storyline and maps and I think they add a bit more variety and fun to the game. Now...what I'd REALLY like to see ANet develop is aerial combat! The idea of using Griffons and Skyscales like fighter planes would be epic, IMO.

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@Excursion.9752 said:Mounts are like an itch that you cant scratch. Once you finally are able to scratch the itch you forget about it. I rarely use my mounts anymore other than my sckscale and warclaw. All the others are merely a means to an end.

Did I enjoy getting them? Not really because I am impatient. Does that mean I should proclaim from the rooftops that things should be adjusted so I can have my way and get them faster? No. There are quiet a few things I hated jumping through the hoops for in this game but I did it because everyone else had to. Its like a right of passage, the higher level of mastery you see a person has the more hoops they have jumped through.

So people who have a problem with the way things are you might as well accept the fact its not going to be changed.

Same. Now that I have unlocked them it doesn't really make much of a difference to the fun that I have in game. I highly doubt it will change now because many people have unlocked it as it is. The most that one can hope for is feedback for the future.

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I'm currently on my second round of adopting mounts. I got them when as they were first released and I just got almost all of them again. Speaking as somebody who got them at their release and now as somebody who just got them again, I'd say that everything but the skyscale is pretty simple to unlock. Playing without the griffon and skyscale is only really a problem on newer maps. A lot of the newer maps are designed with a lot of vertical parts. It makes following a group around maps like dragonfall without the griffon a little painful. It's do-able, you'll just miss out on quite a few events if you are trying to keep up with everyone else. That said, the griffin took me less than a day to unlock. The first time I did it, it took me longer. I would say several days. The collection is actually really fun to do. I recommend giving it a chance if you are intimidated by it. I enjoyed it the first time and the second time. The only mount that hurts a bit to obtain is the Skyscale. If you have the griffin you don't really need it though. You can keep up with people with just the griffon. I honestly recommend getting the skyscale slowly or else you'll end up a sad soggy choya for the duration of the collection. I think some people who unlocked it forget just how tedious that collection is. It's not that it's difficult and it has its cute moments. Sadly it's just not fun. Your fun mileage will vary depending on how you play. Luckily once you grab it, you can forget about the journey and remind yourself that you'll never have to do it again.

I'd say, Raptor, Springer, Skimmer and Jackal are extremely easy to unlock. In 95% of the maps, you don't need the griffin to get around comfortably. Masteries level quickly with story progression and general play. The griffin is a little more involved, but it's still fairly simple. It's a lot more fun with a friend, if you have one willing to take the journey with you. The Skyscale on the other hand is only slightly soul destroying, but you'll only lose a small piece of yourself! It's also not required for anything if you have the griffin. You can follow groups perfectly fine with a griffin if you don't have a skyscale. The only time I felt behind was when I decided to jump into the newest maps without any mounts. As PoF content gets older and older, it could potentially become a problem but I don't think it is right now. It really depends on how Anet designs future content and how much they might rely on having older content. If it were to become a problem, it's years away still.

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