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WvW should be restricted to lvl 80 characters only


bambi.6214

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@Dayra.7405 said:I hate this protection/caring by prohibition attitude.

I would understand if it were an incredibly long blockade, but its not. Just level up as a requirement. It allows for people to learn their skills and at least have a chance at knowing what the hell they're doing.

@Straegen.2938 said:The only way a new WvW player can avoid a brutal experience is to be an experienced PvP player or play on a stacked server. You could hand them a theoretical level 100 character and they will still get destroyed.

You're absolutely right. I don't see how throwing them in there even before they're on a relatively even playing field with the rest of the people in there is to their benefit. It sounds like a really crappy first impression of the game mode.

@knite.1542 said:Either way, I don't really see how it would be more preferable to not have the option to play the game mode. That is insane to me. Should we apply this to PvP as well?

You do get upleveled traits/armor/trinkets in PvP. So they're on an even playing field there in terms of gear and builds. Not to mention you need at least lvl 20 pvp rank to even enter Ranked matches.

I would advocate, as I said in my first post, that underleveled EoTM instances should be put in place for new players to try the game mode out. Give them XP in there, pips too if you want. I just don't look fondly upon them getting nuked by literally EVERY encounter they might face in WvW as an undergeared sub-80. It's the same reason you have to climb the Fractal levels to get to T4 LFG, or rank 20 in pvp to go into ranked matches. It seems logical to me, it prevents these players from having a negative experience in a game mode right off the bat and never come back.

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@Strages.2950 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:I hate this protection/caring by prohibition attitude.

I would understand if it were an incredibly long blockade, but its not. Just level up as a requirement. It allows for people to learn their skills and at least have a chance at knowing what the hell they're doing.

Not that many 80 know what they are doing :) or that you learn much in 20 lvl grind. You would learn much more by 20 lvl in WvW or sPvP I would assume.Why is it so hard to give everyone the freedom to decide for himself how he learns best?

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@Strages.2950 said:It seems logical to me, it prevents these players from having a negative experience in a game mode right off the bat and never come back.

Have you polled hundreds of players and gotten this feedback or is this just an idea that you completely made up?

It is a competitive gamemode. If a player is gonna have that attitude towards it, chances are they aren't gonna like it either way. Additionally, the idea of putting inexperienced players with other inexperienced players to try the gamemode is completely worthless. One, it will more than likely end up as an extremely empty server, which is going to turn more people off of WvW, and two, those people (who only have experience playing with other newbies) are still going to end up getting clapped just the same once they hit level 80. On top of that, people WILL make alt accounts just to farm these people on this newbie server.

Another thing, I think you are severely overestimating the importance of gear. Don't get me wrong, gear is important, but skill is way more important. I have logged in on an upleveled level 20 character in white gear and killed people. People aren't gonna get farmed because their gear is bad. They will get farmed because they don't know how to fight. Having a level 80 character in PVE will not teach you how to fight in WVW.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely understand the point you are making, but I really think this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and it would only end up being detrimental to the gamemode. WvW does not need anything making it more exclusive right now.

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@Bristingr.5034 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:most kittens are lv80 so ye idk. can we also ban everyone for a the next week who has a negative kill/death balance during a week? that'd be an effective kitten ban :cookie:

So, it'd be a survival game then. If you die once before you kill someone, you're instantly negative.

that would be a potentially un-fun event type... but i meant rather, after one week for the next week. just, it was a clearly sarcastic statement and not serious.

there could be kinda challenge league for Wvw tho, where you group up in over-servers and really get 1 week "ban" after exploding like 20 times or sth alike. that could be seriously interesting, just Anet won't do any non-kitten compatible things.

@Obtena.7952 i don't see how Wvw is exclusive.-> for high tier fractals u need to know the mechanics of the levels, the mechanics of the special rules and owning a asc armor set with higher tier green infusion thingys (forgot the name)-> for raids, u need to know the level+mechanics, have a set of asc gear (i guess), a build a know your rotation

Wvw requires a set, while exotics is fully fine, and to get on discord to listen the shouts of a hopefully correctly leading comm, otherwise all u need to do is to know what your skills do. it's not the same rotations as in raids, since u need to adapt... but yeah.

@"knite.1542" while i partly agree, i met a non bulky char in wvw with my lv80 ungeared ( i had no idea back then) character, and i could literally fire all my skills into him, barely took damage. so yeah, gear does matter, just exotic gear is supereasy to farm for.

and as long as u try to help and not help the enemies rally, people won't kick u off open tags. often cleaning up the downed from range helps more for example, just sadly the kittens often die at the frontlines. ^^"

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@knite.1542 said:

@Strages.2950 said:It seems logical to me, it prevents these players from having a negative experience in a game mode right off the bat and never come back.

Have you polled hundreds of players and gotten this feedback or is this just an idea that you completely made up?

1.) I'm not saying every single one of them will hate it and never come back. I'm saying some might. Prevent it before it happens.How many people did you poll supporting your idea that it doesn't matter to them if they just get farmed over and over? (rhetorical btw)

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@"Samug.6512" said:

  1. Right now, when a new player with underleveled character enters WvW, they probably have a limited knowledge of the game, is super lost in terms of mechanics and combat. Gets absolutely destroyed by a random enemy player or even a camp, gets very discouraged towards the whole game mode and never visits it again.

Leveling a character in OW doesn't really help beyond the basic controls, and while helpful for a truly green player, I assume those that accidentally stumble in WvW and get steamrolled would get the hint that they are not ready yet. If anything already, I would think it's actually the "veterans" that have no end to their list of their excuses that cannot learn, as demonstrated by these very forums.

I remember way back when in Queensdale, I wandered upon some level 12 enemies when I was like level 5, so an ettin one shot me. I learned that maybe I shouldn't go there yet.

It's not even easy for a new player to even find wvw to begin with. But you also have to understand that there are those in Gw2 that are simply not suited for pve, and they may just lose interest too fast.

  1. Putting a level restriction would probably make introducing "new player experience" into WvW way easier as players coming in contact with WvW for the 1st time would already have some knowledge of the game.

The NPE is terrible and dumbed down early areas. If anything it made it worse. It's not good to have content that doesn't respect your players' intelligence. Maybe they should have people complete the dodge tutorial before being allowed in wvw-- that was a good addition, but then again many around these parts would probably fail it.

  1. ...would be a clear message to new players that this is advanced content that requires at least basic knowledge of game mechanics.

It's pretty clear already that this is where player vs player combat happens, rather fast.

  1. ...would possibly discourage some people from making a free account just to grief on enemy servers (free accounts already have a requirement, bumping it higher wouldn't hurt)

Uhh, no. People grief because they have nothing better to do, and you need to be level 6o on a f2p anyways.

  1. Going in with underleveled character puts your server in possible disadvantage as you are an easy rally for enemies, also possibly putting a bad light on you in the eyes of your server mates ("kitten get out of here noob")

That sounds like a reason to remove rally, as it is a toxic mechanic that prevents cooperation between team members, especially when skill levels differ. Some groups refuse to play with pugs because they may be rallybots. Removing it would not just benefit this situation, but almost all interaction between people of any skill level.

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@Strages.2950 said:How many people did you poll supporting your idea that it doesn't matter to them if they just get farmed over and over? (rhetorical btw)

The deflection back at me doesn't really work because I didn't make a claim. Either way, that is beside the point.

Right now, when a new player with underleveled character enters WvW, they probably have a limited knowledge of the game, is super lost in terms of mechanics and >combat. Gets absolutely destroyed by a random enemy player or even a camp, gets very discouraged towards the whole game mode and never visits it again.

The OP made this claim and I was just curious if this is actually a fact or just an idea that he made up. If the OP felt this way from their own personal experience I would understand, but I don't see why someone would make a post suggesting a (bad) fix to a hypothetical problem that doesn't effect them.

Here's another idea. Raids are very tricky, not for me, but possibly for other people. I think you should have to have a minimum of 200 hours of playtime on your class before you can join a raid on that class. This way, people won't have a hard time doing them and then never come back to raids.

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@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:u wrote "even more than it is now" tho?

OK ... that's not a statement about how exclusive it is now ... so it looks like you just want to argue.

People want a more exclusive WvW environment with this idea... they are just promoting the demise of the game mode when they do that.

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@ burnfall and potatoe: just no. u cannot make a format work for 8 years like "bring your own gear" and then suddenly "okay, now everyone get standard gear" lmfao. you gain literally zero from playing then. only worth would be literally black lion keys from drops, which are pretty rare.

by now the only good rewards are the ascended armor, that u can be like ~1 piece each month with wvw-currency and drops (asc armor /weapon boxes)

sooo, if they take that from us, it would make no sense at all anymore to play it for the rewards, because the rewards would be pointless. wvw isn't spvp and that's fine alike. it's supposed to be the real pvp endgame, just for reasons some people treat it as the ultimate dolly hugging mode.

and @displayname.8315 ur suggestions is next level madness. if u see uplevels, u know the weak points, that's extremly unfair towards them. u can yet see the enemy players' ranks, which often tells enough.


by the way, another problem of entering Wvw without lv80 chars: u have no access to elite specs before lv80. and that makes most goodstuff unplayable. burn guardian is the only set i really see working against unexperienced players now and then, out of all standard specs. maybe some cheesy support mesmer and engi shenanigans, but not much more.


next Obtena, then u had to phrase it different.

@"Obtena.7952" said:Sure why not ... WvW is a dying game mode ... might as well put another nail in the coffin and be even MORE exclusive than it is now.

the beginning is yet clearly sarcastic, which is a passive-aggressive way of making a statement. the "blahblah ded gaem" is a old meme, let's guess u mean that.finally u also set the "more" in capitals, so it get a "main message"-touch. so this suggests u want to express exactly that it is yet very exclusive, and u're enraged that it may get even more exclusive than it is yet.

if u didn't want to say that, choose a more chill wording, but don't act like i'm stirring the sh*t here, just because i'm able to read.

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You presume a huge portion of the bad players in wvw right now are under leveled and not simply just the new average. Also level 80 full zerker pvers get blown up just the same. Takes them a while to adjust from being the Commander to just another generic bandit, some never make that transition...

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@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:and @displayname.8315 ur suggestions is next level madness. if u see uplevels, u know the weak points, that's extremly unfair towards them. u can yet see the enemy players' ranks, which often tells enough.

Yes the enemy rank tells you enough if your just looking for easy kills..

Seeing the green chevron on friendlies tho would help with teamwork.

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@Kylden Ar.3724 said:WvW Players: We need to get more people into WvW!

Also WvW Players: Suggests ways to restrict new players even more.

Also WvW Players: Shoots down suggestions to allow new players to level up and gear up in the mode quicker.

WvW Population Curve: {Surprised Pikachu.gif}

You have so much right here, and saved me a temp ban from all the replies I had to this one that I typed and deleted and retyped and deleted. So thanks, appreciate your reply. +1.

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@"Samug.6512" said:

  1. Right now, when a new player with underleveled character enters WvW, they probably have a limited knowledge of the game, is super lost in terms of mechanics and combat. Gets absolutely destroyed by a random enemy player or even a camp, gets very discouraged towards the whole game mode and never visits it again.
  2. Putting a level restriction would probably make introducing "new player experience" into WvW way easier as players coming in contact with WvW for the 1st time would already have some knowledge of the game.
  3. ...would be a clear message to new players that this is advanced content that requires at least basic knowledge of game mechanics.
  4. ...would possibly discourage some people from making a free account just to grief on enemy servers (free accounts already have a requirement, bumping it higher wouldn't hurt)
  5. Going in with underleveled character puts your server in possible disadvantage as you are an easy rally for enemies, also possibly putting a bad light on you in the eyes of your server mates ("kitten get out of here noob")

Thoughts?

In a recent stream Raymond Lukes said he brought this up and the team decided “no” to the idea of limiting levels inside of wvw.

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I leveled up my Necro and Guardian in PvE, the rest were leveled up in WvW/EotM.

I remember bringing my low level Ele into WvW just to stop treb shots.Bring your main Friday night thru Wednesday. But on Thur and Friday before reset bring any character you want to level.

WvW from the beginning has always been about any player at any level can contribute. Modifications after the creation Free to Play accounts was the only exception, for a good reason.

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I don't care about enforcing any kind of ban, but everyone's waxing nostalgic about leveling alts in EotM while we just have Tomes now. Even light WvW play will give you a steady trickle of Tomes, which make it trivial to get an alt to instant-80 (especially alongside Birthday scrolls). As well as a steady trickle of stat-selectable Warlord Armor boxes that you can use to get even annoying stat combos like Minstrel's for free.

Just use your Tomes, folks.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:WvW Players: We need to get more people into WvW!

Also WvW Players: Suggests ways to restrict new players
even more.

Also WvW Players: Shoots down suggestions to allow new players to level up and gear up in the mode quicker.

WvW Population Curve: {Surprised Pikachu.gif}

You have so much right here, and saved me a temp ban from all the replies I had to this one that I typed and deleted and retyped and deleted. So thanks, appreciate your reply. +1.

Glad to help man.

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