Merge with Minions similar to Soulbeast

[SLOTH.5231]

Anyone would be interested in this being Minions are terrible outside of PVE? Similar to ranger soulbeast but with Minions. Also signets could use a rework as well even when you spec in to them for the extra buffs they're terrible.

I'm just looking for a bit more variety and we need some better passives to combat the many perma swiftness/cleanse evade rangers and thieves running around in WvW.

[Dadnir.5038]

It's not that it's not interesting, it's more that minions aren't part of the class mechanism but core utilities.E-specs do not modify core utilities, they just add new utilities. And soulbeast's merging mechanism is tightly tied to it's class mechanism so it can be justified.

My dream core trait would be:The undead: Minion skills no longer summon minion. The necromancer can now use himself freely minion's active skills.

[SLOTH.5231]

Yeah I just feel like minions are wasted utilities giving us less then other classes have in reference to WvW and PvP. I feel like it’s almost a disadvantage to be honest. I like the minions and would like to use them outside of PvE but they get killed instantly so can’t even use there skills.

[Xaylin.1860]

@SLOTH.5231 said:Yeah I just feel like minions are wasted utilities giving us less then other classes have in reference to WvW and PvP. I feel like it’s almost a disadvantage to be honest. I like the minions and would like to use them outside of PvE but they get killed instantly so can’t even use there skills.

Well, it's not like Necromancers are at a disadvantage here considering Illusions in general (Mesmer), Turrets (Engi), Spirits (Ranger) and Summons (Renegade). While do agree that Minions could need some work, I'm not sure that making them viable in PvP or WvW is a realistic goal.

[Infusion.7149]

There's actually meme necros running minions in PVP so I don't think your point holds up.

The only reason they are terrible in WVW is due to terrain and the stat boosts that make power damage destroy them faster. In WVW you want to be running wells if grouped (and possibly trail of anguish if you don't have a reliable support) and flesh wurm (for the teleport) if roaming anyway.

[SLOTH.5231]

@Infusion.7149 said:There's actually meme necros running minions in PVP so I don't think your point holds up.

The only reason they are terrible in WVW is due to terrain and the stat boosts that make power damage destroy them faster. In WVW you want to be running wells if grouped (and possibly trail of anguish if you don't have a reliable support) and flesh wurm (for the teleport) if roaming anyway.

I get what you're saying and well aware what people use and only noobs running around in PvP with Minions so point noted.

I'm over rank 1200 in WvW would be way higher if I didn't take a 2 year break been playing the game since early start and nothing has been done to really make Minions viable outside PvP. It would just be nice is all I'm saying.

[Anchoku.8142]

Minions were/are an almost-necessary easy-mode for new players starting with core Necromancer. Core Necro was hard to use in 2012 PvE. It was the worst of eight professions.

In many ways, minions were necessary for sustain and dps even in open world and that was back when minions were weaker in all ways and their AI was not tuned very well.

The need for minions seems, to me, much less than I remember but I also remember them as training wheels until the player became comfortable using shroud, dodges and condi-pressure for sustain.

[SLOTH.5231]

@Anchoku.8142 said:Minions were/are an almost-necessary easy-mode for new players starting with core Necromancer. Core Necro was hard to use in 2012 PvE. It was the worst of eight professions.

In many ways, minions were necessary for sustain and dps even in open world and that was back when minions were weaker in all ways and their AI was not tuned very well.

The need for minions seems, to me, much less than I remember but I also remember them as training wheels until the player became comfortable using shroud, dodges and condi-pressure for sustain.

This is exactly why Minions need a rework couldn't have said it better myself.

[Sobx.1758]

Merging with minons doesn't make a lot of sense to me thematically/mechanically, but maybe I'm missing something?

[Dadnir.5038]

@Sobx.1758 said:Merging with minons doesn't make a lot of sense to me thematically/mechanically, but maybe I'm missing something?

Why not? Thematically, the necromancer step at the border of death with it's shroud already after all. Why wouldn't it make sense for him to merge with actual undeads to further it's understanding of this border?

Mechanically, I agree with you, it doesn't make sense since minions are optional utilities, not even close to be a class mechanic.

[Sobx.1758]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Merging with minons doesn't make a lot of sense to me thematically/mechanically, but maybe I'm missing something?

Why not? Thematically, the necromancer step at the border of death with it's shroud already after all. Why wouldn't it make sense for him to merge with actual undeads to further it's understanding of this border?

Stepping on the border of death and merging with the undead minions/servants are two different things for me. For me merging like in case of soulbeast brings to mind some kind of mutual relationship with more equilibrium and cooperation than what necromancer has with minions. It just doesn't fit in this case imo, that's all.

Mechanically, I agree with you, it doesn't make sense since minions are optional utilities, not even close to be a class mechanic.

Yup.

[Lily.1935]

Minions almost fill a similar role to Symbols do for Guardian. It would be nice if the identity of how minions can be summoned could be expanded. I dislike the idea of removing minions or "Merging" with them as its not within our design and honestly shouldn't be. Minions are a defining feature of what a necromancer is. And how they're summoned should be expanded a little bit. The Skills are fine(if not a bit underwhelming), they're similar to how the Mesmer has utility skills which are Phantasm or Clone skills. Its not a 1 for 1 comparison as both Symbols, Phantasms and Clones are more important to their respective classes than minions are to necromancer, but you know.

Not interested in this idea.

[Kodama.6453]

@"Lily.1935" said:Minions almost fill a similar role to Symbols do for Guardian. It would be nice if the identity of how minions can be summoned could be expanded. I dislike the idea of removing minions or "Merging" with them as its not within our design and honestly shouldn't be. Minions are a defining feature of what a necromancer is. And how they're summoned should be expanded a little bit. The Skills are fine(if not a bit underwhelming), they're similar to how the Mesmer has utility skills which are Phantasm or Clone skills. Its not a 1 for 1 comparison as both Symbols, Phantasms and Clones are more important to their respective classes than minions are to necromancer, but you know.

Not interested in this idea.

Can you elaborate that statement a bit more?

I don't think we can really compare minions and symbols here. Symbols for guardians are represented in every mainhand weapon they have. But minions are a utility skill type and the only other ways to summon them are other utility skills ("Rise!") and some traits.

What I mean by that: symbols are a part of every guardian build, minions are not for necromancers. And I think they shouldn't.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Kodama.6453 said:What I mean by that: symbols are a part of every guardian build, minions are not for necromancers. And I think they shouldn't.

Exactly, at best you could compare guardian's symbols to necromancer's boon convertion (thought it's not entirely true since staff and GS don't offer any boon convertion... yet). If necromancer's minions are comparable to something that the guardian owned, it would be the old spirit weapons.

[Obtena.7952]

@SLOTH.5231 said:Anyone would be interested in this being Minions are terrible outside of PVE? Similar to ranger soulbeast but with Minions. Also signets could use a rework as well even when you spec in to them for the extra buffs they're terrible.

I'm just looking for a bit more variety and we need some better passives to combat the many perma swiftness/cleanse evade rangers and thieves running around in WvW.

I don't see the suggestion here ... just saying to rework a bunch of things and magically ... we have variety and better passives to combat swiftness/cleanse evade rangers for WvW? I mean ... do you want to fill in the blanks here? If you don't indicate something specific, you're just setting yourself up for everyone to disagree with your idea, simply because it's vague and empty.

[Xaylin.1860]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:What I mean by that: symbols are a part of

every

guardian build, minions are not for necromancers. And I think they shouldn't.

Exactly, at best you could compare guardian's

symbols

to necromancer's

boon convertion

(thought it's not entirely true since staff and GS don't offer any boon convertion... yet). If necromancer's minions are comparable to something that the guardian owned, it would be the old

spirit weapons

.

This. Minions are neither Symbols nor comparable to Phantasms or Clones besides coincidentally also being AI skills. I'm a bit irritated by the recent trend of making Minions more than they actually are for GW2 Necromancer. They are no more important than any other Utility group Necromancers have.