Triumphant Hero's Heavy Armor now shown as transmuted from "The Twins'" set

[juno.1840]

At least a year ago I purchased the Ascended Triumphant Hero's heavy armor from the Skirmish Supervisor in WvW. My intention was to eventually craft up the legendary version (which requires the ascended version in the mystic forge).

I was checking the crafting calculator on gw2efficiency.com this morning and it shows that I don't have the Triumphant Hero's ascended armor. I check my character in GW2 and the ascended armor is showing: "Transmuted: The Twins' XXXX" where XXXX is "visor", "pauldrons", "breastplate", etc.

When I go back to the skirmish vendor, the ascended armor tab shows the heavy armor pieces all with "Skin Unlocked".

Did something change in the item database which invalidated the WvW Ascended Heavy Armor sets crafted a year ago?

EDIT: I'm quite confused on this entire situation to be honest. "The Twins" is just the "grieving" asc. armor, which is how my armor is currently configured (having changed it in the mystic forge months ago). The MF shouldn't change a Triumphant Hero's armor piece to a different base skin type right?

[Ronan.9518]

Using the mystic forge more or less destroys the old item and gives you a completly new one.So yeah if you put a Triumphant Armor piece into the mystic forge and stat swamp you'll get a "normal" armor piece according to the stats of the insignia you used.

[juno.1840]

That's definitely not clear in the game at all. I went back and checked the wiki and it does have one sentence buried on this page: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stat_changing. To me it reads more like an excuse rather than a desired game feature.

I've swapped stats multiple times on other ascended gear and didn't perceive the "destruction" effect because it's non-consequential. So I didn't think twice about doing it to my Triumphant Hero's asc. armor. The game should definitely provide better feedback in this specific situation (legendary armor precursor).

[Infusion.7149]

I did the same thing a few years ago, you're probably out of luck. At least you made out better than people that bought the exotic version of it though, those are basically useless if you have access to ascended.

Let it be a lesson for future pieces. I'll never forget now :P

It's the same scenario if you mystic forge any precursor.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I'm very sorry that the OP lost time and resources, without realizing the consequences of using the Mystic Forge. It's a miserable feeling, regardless of the circumstances.

Let's be careful: the mystic forge has always destroyed items, and Zommoros replaces it with something else. Stat-swapping is a feature of legendary gear; other items can be replaced with otherwise-identical gear, except for stats.

This information is not hidden; it's just that players aren't careful about the choice of words they use. After all, it's easier to say "swap" than "replace the gear with new items that have different stats."

---

The forge itself warns us (emphasis added):

Place four items into the forge to create new items.

Some items offer additional warnings (notably precursors to legendary weapons).

---

@"juno.1840" said:I ...checked the wiki and it does have one sentence buried on this page: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stat_changing.

The very first line of that page reads as follows (emphasis added)

Stat changing or stat swapping is a feature of Legendary equipment that allows one to change the stats on their gear. Most Ascended gear can be replaced with new items that offer different stats; unlike legendary stat-swapping, this is not free and destroys the original gear (along with any upgrades or infusions it might have). Ascended weapons, armor, and attribute infusions are transitioned via parallel Mystic Forge recipes; some ascended trinkets can be reforged using special stat-changing items.

---

Again, I'm sympathetic to the OP's loss. I just don't think it's possible for the game or the wiki to prevent people from making assumptions about mechanics. We players will make mistakes and ANet will, when they can, help to rectify. Sometimes that's not possible, perhaps due to shortsighted-design decisions, perhaps an inability to verify, perhaps no alternative that doesn't accidentally increase wealth, or (too often) because other players have taken advantage of Support.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The Devs also discussed this on the forum back when the WvW gear was first released.They gave an explicit warning about using the Mystic Forge.

[juno.1840]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:The Devs also discussed this on the forum back when the WvW gear was first released.They gave an explicit warning about using the Mystic Forge.

Doesn't really help if you missed the forum post, joined afterwards, etc.

Sounds like this falls squarely into "user experience". It's a difficult thing to do well in any software (which I do for a living). This is a poor user experience imho -- and the ramifications of misunderstanding what's going on is severe for most users -- loss of resources (including time, the most important one of all). Any game mechanic that requires some form of external knowledge to execute, or execute well, is at risk for bad user experience.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

---

The forge itself warns us (emphasis added):

Place four items into the forge to create

new items

.

That's a good example with regards to user experience. There's an implicit assumption that users will understand all the ramifications of "new items". Of course I'm going to get new items, that's why I'm using the forge in the first place -- in this specific example, to get "new" stats for my gear. It's not so obvious with respect to the ramifications for ascended armor which can be used to craft legendary armor. It would be a good idea to add a second confirmation that says: you will no longer be able to [details here]. are you sure you want to continue? That software change may pay for itself in the form of reduced support tickets.

[Linken.6345]

@juno.1840 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:The Devs also discussed this on the forum back when the WvW gear was first released.They gave an explicit warning about using the Mystic Forge.

Doesn't really help if you missed the forum post, joined afterwards, etc.

Sounds like this falls squarely into "user experience". It's a difficult thing to do well in any software (which I do for a living). This is a poor user experience imho -- and the ramifications of misunderstanding what's going on is severe for most users -- loss of resources (including time, the most important one of all). Any game mechanic that requires some form of external knowledge to execute, or execute well, is at risk for bad user experience.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

---

The forge itself warns us (

emphasis

added):

Place four items into the forge to create

new items

.

That's a good example with regards to user experience. There's an implicit assumption that users will understand

all

the ramifications of "new items". Of course I'm going to get new items, that's why I'm using the forge in the first place -- in this specific example, to get "new" stats for my gear. It's not so obvious with respect to the ramifications for ascended armor which can be used to craft legendary armor. It would be a good idea to add a second confirmation that says:

you will no longer be able to [details here]. are you sure you want to continue?

That software change may pay for itself in the form of reduced support tickets.

Well I would want a tick box in options to then disable this extra + any other popup, I dont need anymore as well then.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"juno.1840" said:

That's definitely not clear in the game at all. I went back and checked the wiki and it does have one sentence buried on this page:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stat_changing

. To me it reads more like an excuse rather than a desired game feature.

That's a good example with regards to user experience. There's an implicit assumption that users will understand

all

the ramifications of "new items". Of course I'm going to get new items, that's why I'm using the forge in the first place -- in this specific example, to get "new" stats for my gear. It's not so obvious with respect to the ramifications for ascended armor which can be used to craft legendary armor. It would be a good idea to add a second confirmation that says:

you will no longer be able to [details here]. are you sure you want to continue?

That software change may pay for itself in the form of reduced support tickets.

Your initial claim is that ANet is just offering excuses, that the information isn't available. I responded to that: it is in the game, it is in the wiki, and many of us (including you & I) sometimes gloss over these messages, without taking time to consider how they might affect us down the road.

That's not a dig on you; it's just pointing out that humans won't always process details, until something happens to force them to pay attention.

In the end, there are no combinations of explicit warnings, forced stopping points, and human beings that will ensure that no one ever makes a mistake that requires support to help. All ANet can do is make their best guess as to where to draw the line, balancing support costs, player frustration, and coding time.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

In particular, the confusion lies here:

in this specific example, to get "new" stats for my gear.That's not an existing feature of this game. We cannot change stats on non-legendary gear; we can only replace it with comparable items that have different stats.

---

Should ANet make it more explicit? I suppose they could, but then that will not stop people from using the term "stat swap" and many will still ignore the updated message.

Should ANet also add a modal dialogue box that forces that player to stop and confirm? Sure, they could, but then that adds a burden on every player, for the benefit of the few that haven't realized "gear replacement" isn't the same as "stat swapping."

Alright, so maybe ANet can change the game so that it's possible to ignore warnings globally. Now, people who think they know the game will disable the messages, until something happens that causes them to lose resources. And now those affected will wonder why ANet allowed them to skip past the messages.

Fine, so instead, the company can make it so that each warning must be acknowledged at least once before being hidden. Which also works fine, until a returning player forgets the details and runs into the same problem.

Meantime, ANet has spent months of developer time, weeks of translator time, to perfect these warnings ... with the end result that a tiny fraction of players of a small fraction of potential players will avoid needing support's help.

The game itself definitely does a poor job communicating some concepts, which is why veterans always urge new players to use the wiki, to research before spending valuable resources. And the GW2 Wiki does cover just about anything any of us want to know about the game, its mechanics, and its lore. Even better: if any of us think that the wiki isn't doing that job well enough, we can personally edit articles or leave a note asking someone to improve the explanation|presentation.

People will still make mistakes, because we're all human. And ANet Support will try to fix it when we do, if we ask. It's definitely annoying to deal with, especially since Support has historically suffered staffing issues and we have to wait. That doesn't mean it's a good investment of resources to try to anticipate every potential issue.

Once again, I'm sorry that the OP lost materials and time, regardless of the circumstances. I've been there myself and it always socks.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Getting the Ascended armor piece is only a tiny fraction of the price of getting the Legendary armor piece, so it shouldn't be a factor really. You've already completed the unlocks which is where most of the time investment goes.

Just spend 1-2 weeks getting a new set and use your current armor on an alt after you do the thing.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Getting the Ascended armor piece is only a tiny fraction of the price of getting the Legendary armor piece, so it shouldn't be a factor really. You've already completed the unlocks which is where most of the time investment goes.

Just spend 1-2 weeks getting a new set and use your current armor on an alt after you do the thing.

It takes 4 weeks just to get the tickets.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Getting the Ascended armor piece is only a tiny fraction of the price of getting the Legendary armor piece, so it shouldn't be a factor really. You've already completed the unlocks which is where most of the time investment goes.

Just spend 1-2 weeks getting a new set and use your current armor on an alt after you do the thing.

It takes 4 weeks just to get the tickets.

I seriously doubt anyone playing WvW regularly has no tickets at all.

[juno.1840]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Getting the Ascended armor piece is only a tiny fraction of the price of getting the Legendary armor piece, so it shouldn't be a factor really. You've already completed the unlocks which is where most of the time investment goes.

Just spend 1-2 weeks getting a new set and use your current armor on an alt after you do the thing.

It takes 4 weeks just to get the tickets.

I seriously doubt anyone playing WvW regularly has no tickets at all.

The time investment is significant. It's 22 weeks of maxing the WvW weekly chests to get enough tickets for a legendary armor set. That's the big issue really. Time is more valuable than the other resources. However, for reference:

• The cost for each piece is roughly 375g in materials to go from ascended to legendary.
• The cost to purchase each ascended is mostly in the grand master marks. A piece will range from 33 to 44g in marks. So about 10% of the total cost.

Again the tickets are really the factor. If you are crafting up legendary pieces from WvW, you losing 1310 tickets is an issue.

I worked the issue through support. They were willing to help correct my mistake but I'm unable to recall the exact dates at which i purchased the armor and then subsequently stat-swapped it in the forge. Otherwise I believe they would have been able to reverse it. They were very helpful considering that this mistake was on me.

[Xenn.1602]

fml I now found this forum searching for my triumphant ascended gear... I also changed stats in MF of legs and body... =(