One-shot Mesmer is bad for the game.

[Arolandis.8360]

For starters, I think Mesmer needs buffs in general, so don't take this as "great you wanna nerf us MOAR!?" because that's not what I want for Mesmer. I want to have fun in PVP on my Mes again someday.

What bothers me is the one-shot Mesmer build (I WvW mostly) that's as cancerous as Thief's old Malicious Backstab build that got rightfully nerfed. I mostly play thief and guardian. On thief, with 21k HP and on my mount a Mesmer often one-shots me out of stealth. That's TWO freakin' HP pools. If a thief is expected to fight without one-shotting people then I think Mesmer should too. That's seriously some OP shit.

Anyway I don't normally post here but wanted to hopefully get some attention on this so ANET can look into it. If they even check here.

[Quadox.7834]

wvw is a trash game mode

[Yoci.2481]

WvW is 100 times more dynamic, unpredictable and fun than PvP. PvP is a stale, predictable, repetitive, choreographed and sanitized mock-up of a fight. It's like comparing a Judo tournament with a war zone.

That said: How on Earth is one shot Mesmer a problem in WvW?

[Daishi.6027]

I actually agree with this. Mesmer should be an Illusionary duelist; and this should ring true at least across mirage regardless of damage type. It should be able to use it's illusions to deceive in a realistic way and not just be a resource people can just kite or cleave to win against. Actively deceiving and avoid attacks on par with thieves ability to evade, or escape into stealth. Neither should have a one shot, both should be large spikes that can trade efficiently with an opponent's cooldowns after whittling down defensive options and maintain the sustain, but both reliably die or at best stalemate when properly read and focused. This will probably never be a reality for either class but this would be ideal.

But currently with what we have I disagree. Mesmer stealth is far more limited, much more easily timed and read by an opponent than thief backstab. Unless 100% blindsided it is inferior to thief in every way, and in a mode where we have mounts in WvW, and the scope of proper map awareness for sPvP, that shouldn't happen to frequently nor over perform at plat and up. Also this is on top of being tied to way more cooldowns some with lengthy durations to pull off, not to mention the utilization of a ranged weapon with no real defensive option in melee, that requires bounces from a projectile skill that has a base cast time 3/4s. Thief's only requirement is range, position, and stealth which they have an abundance of and can escape into on a whiff. If the mesmer whiffs after expending their blink to gap close, they maybe have 3 seconds of stealth remaining and no teleports. If the mesmer didn't kill you; the mesmer dies.

Also thief is one of the few classes where it is a true one shot without any prior back and forth, many of the other classes do not suffer a true 100-0 and the idea of a "one shot" is a misnomer, and thief still counters mesmer and does this job better.

I'm all for a re-form and fixing all this crap, but it's been the same game for 8 years, I don't see it changing especially not with CMC at the helm.

[Dadnir.5038]

I'm pretty sure that one shot is a langage abuse here. You probably take a lot of hits within a short time frame.That said, I agree, you shouldn't be able to deal high amount of damage when initiating a burst from stealth. The easiest way to solve that would be to add a damage debuff on reveal. But that might end up be overkill in WvW (due to WvW trap item) and the last nail in the coffin of the thief who have it's very design revolving around initiating attack from stealth.

[Quadox.7834]

@Yoci.2481 said:WvW is 100 times more dynamic, unpredictable and fun than PvP. PvP is a stale, predictable, repetitive, choreographed and sanitized mock-up of a fight. It's like comparing a Judo tournament with a war zone.

That said: How on Earth is one shot Mesmer a problem in WvW?

dunno about u but i would rather be in a judo tournament than a war zone

[Yoci.2481]

Of course, but I would rather play to be in a war zone. But it's a matter of personal taste.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Quadox.7834 said:wvw is a trash game mode

PvP was only good pre-HoT when we had more toys (Traitlines) to play with and actual build craft. WvW at least retains theory-crafting to some extent due to them not being limited by some stupid amulet system. Ontop of that WvW basically offers the same rewards PvP does so I really don't feel like given the population between the two that PvP is as popular as WvW. SPvP is to WvW in the same vein that Raids are to PvE. Niche, unsupported and full of air-heads who THINK they know whats best for the game and shout down or scream on the forums which ends up hurting the game for everyone.

Stay in your lane.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

And then players wonder why MMOs had traditional features like global cooldowns that aren't "needed" in GW.

Its to keep DPS from spewing damage all over you, and tanks from spewing buffs and heals 24/7. But this game has been marketed as an action game, and players have frequently praised that train of development, so enjoy all or nothing gameplay.

I mean you can literally cast all the skills on your bar in less than 5sec with Quickness.

At least the February patch brought most of it to a reasonable level.

[XenesisII.1540]

Mesmers are probably the least played class in wvw, much less that one shot build.... Clueless people already cried enough to get mirage nerfed to the ground.

But I do agree one shot skills or one shot combos shouldn't exist in the game, regardless of whatever else the class has going/not going for it. For the Mesmer class I think their skills should have been more focused on providing utility and alternate/dirty means of combat, not just straight up one shot dps, they're illusionist, mesmerize, deceive, avoid, and charm your way through a fight. Mesmer mechanics have been nerfed, or never worked well because of clones, or given away to other classes over the years, to the point that you don't even need them in groups or one is sufficient. Stealth is also the problem here, but meh, discussed to death for 8 years, will never change. They don't care about mesmers anyways.

[viquing.8254]

Is there more diversity in WvW thanks to gear and food : yes.Did WvW put op things to an insane level :yes

And the carrying extrapolation has way more impact than the diversity things.

That's why WvW is meh when talking about class balance

[waxx.3619]

Which mesmer build is one shotting people ?

[Junkpile.7439]

I think that oneshot build is good for game. It's like only fun mesmer build. I don't have any idea how mesmer one hit thief when thief is counter to mesmer. You just chill in stealth until mesmer lose stealth and backstab him. Need to remeber that mesmer isn't only class that can one hit. Engineer can do it, soulbest too and probably many other classes. B)

[Henrik.7560]

I'd take one shot mesmer any day over the stupid perma evade condi mirage we used to have and still have to some extent.

Be careful what u wish for

[Dawdler.8521]

@Junkpile.7439 said:I don't have any idea how mesmer one hit thief when thief is counter to mesmer.Same reason other classes onehit thieves - the thief is either an idiot or he got outplayed.

Here's the simple fact about these builds regardless of class - it's an ambush build.

Meaning most of the fights it wins by ambushing unsuspecting foes. Where it doesnt win is when the enemy is paying attention and can bunker down long enough to get support from other players. Which is 90% of WvW combat if you're in a competetive matchup. The other 10% is players on shitty thief builds I guess.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Don't even know why this is even posted, do you have any clue how much you would have to do on a Mesmer or how much skills you actually have to combo in order to fully get a one shot? Other classes can do the same amount of damage without having to waste 2 utility slots as well as it landing (cuz clones are unreliable unless you blink in to burst). People who get one shot by mesmers and not know how the class work is the reason why mesmers keep getting nerfed to the ground. They already took away the stun mantra trait so you getting daze is a huge indicator to stunbreak into an evade which means the mesmer will have a long windup time before it can one shot again.

Truth be told if there were better traits for mesmer that warrant sustained dmg then that would be the better option. At the end of the day at this current meta if mesmers cant one shot they cant win most match ups because other class don't have as long of a windup time for dmg as mesmers.

[otto.5684]

@Henrik.7560 said:I'd take one shot mesmer any day over the stupid perma evade condi mirage we used to have and still have to some extent.

Be careful what u wish for

Even in PvE, you cannot get anywhere close to that. Just cuz you dunno what your doing, it does not mean something is over performing.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Arolandis.8360" said:For starters, I think Mesmer needs buffs in general, so don't take this as "great you wanna nerf us MOAR!?" because that's not what I want for Mesmer. I want to have fun in PVP on my Mes again someday.

What bothers me is the one-shot Mesmer build (I WvW mostly) that's as cancerous as Thief's old Malicious Backstab build that got rightfully nerfed. I mostly play thief and guardian. On thief, with 21k HP and on my mount a Mesmer often one-shots me out of stealth. That's TWO freakin' HP pools. If a thief is expected to fight without one-shotting people then I think Mesmer should too. That's seriously some OP kitten.

Anyway I don't normally post here but wanted to hopefully get some attention on this so ANET can look into it. If they even check here.

+1

This Is Guild Wars Heroine-Gwen Mesmer Professionhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide_to_playing_as_a_mesmerhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gwen

-I am sorry to address this to you, nothing will ever be looked into because Guild Wars 2 stripped away Gwen; Mesmer Profession identity and replaced it with a Toxic +1 shotting Stealth A.I Machine-

Gwen is the life of Guild Wars...without her, there would not be Guild Wars

Is this The Honor To Guild Wars Heroine who saved Guild Wars?

What Is Bad For The Game Is Guild Wars 2 Toxicity To The Lore Of Guild Wars

[Burnfall.9573]

@waxx.3619 said:Which mesmer build is one shotting people ?

-removed-

the focus here is to address, not to encourage

[Hot Boy.7138]

i've been complaining about one shot builds for a long time, specifically mesmer's one shot build. Anet think one shot builds from stealth are fine. So this build isn't going anywhere.

[otto.5684]

@Hot Boy.7138 said:i've been complaining about one shot builds for a long time, specifically mesmer's one shot build. Anet think one shot builds from stealth are fine. So this build isn't going anywhere.

Many players will disagree with me, but I always wanted the damage of F1 to be cut by about 65%, and the damage unloaded on weapons instead. It is more consistent and fair gameplay. But my confidence in Anet devs is none existent, so leaving it alone is probably the best option.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@otto.5684 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:i've been complaining about one shot builds for a long time, specifically mesmer's one shot build. Anet think one shot builds from stealth are fine. So this build isn't going anywhere.

Many players will disagree with me, but I always wanted the damage of F1 to be cut by about 65%, and the damage unloaded on weapons instead. It is more consistent and fair gameplay. But my confidence in Anet devs is none existent, so leaving it alone is probably the best option.

F1 damage is not all that amazing TBH, problem starts when you slap in all the bonuses that are useless most of the fight but work in that small moment when you hit the combo, instead of having huge bonuses that have really small uptime they should smooth them over longer durations.examples.-Vulnerability and % bonus per vulnerability -> obv you stack it to 25% to gain 25% and 12,5% damage bonus that is huge but in general not realistic in longer duration fights. Make it harder to stack insane numbers of vulnerability but make it easier to have smaller numbers in better uptimes.-F1 damage bonus ( its just made for 1shoting the trait is stupid )-bonus damage when you have more HP

• more crit damage, even more when controlled/under 50%. very hit or miss, but also oriented around bursting, leads to 1shots.

And thats just off the top of my head.

[otto.5684]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:i've been complaining about one shot builds for a long time, specifically mesmer's one shot build. Anet think one shot builds from stealth are fine. So this build isn't going anywhere.

Many players will disagree with me, but I always wanted the damage of F1 to be cut by about 65%, and the damage unloaded on weapons instead. It is more consistent and fair gameplay. But my confidence in Anet devs is none existent, so leaving it alone is probably the best option.

F1 damage is not all that amazing TBH, problem starts when you slap in all the bonuses that are useless most of the fight but work in that small moment when you hit the combo, instead of having huge bonuses that have really small uptime they should smooth them over longer durations.examples.-Vulnerability and % bonus per vulnerability -> obv you stack it to 25% to gain 25% and 12,5% damage bonus that is huge but in general not realistic in longer duration fights. Make it harder to stack insane numbers of vulnerability but make it easier to have smaller numbers in better uptimes.-F1 damage bonus ( its just made for 1shoting the trait is stupid )-bonus damage when you have more HP

• more crit damage, even more when controlled/under 50%. very hit or miss, but also oriented around bursting, leads to 1shots.

And thats just off the top of my head.

These bonuses exist for all mesmer builds. Kinda the same for all classes. They are not an issue. I much rather move away from trying to make power builds, in PvP, centred around trying to one shot opponents, even if it currently does not work.

[Salt Mode.3780]

lol i mean i dont mind them removing shatter dmg to weapon dmg considering its much harder to land a good F1 combo then it isoff weapon dmg. Then again you wont be any different then any other class by doing so. If tht is the case can we get some nade dmg or ranger pew pew dmg or how about DH true shot dmg those are very welcomed wont even mind reaper shrould F4 dmg fine not F4 just F1 cleave AoE dmg.