If we're gonna have marked on every tower/sentry and target painters

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@SweetPotato.7456 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:Watch tower tactic is the most hard to get from your skirmish chests.Getting players to install target painter is also the hardest thing to do in WvWSo, while you think that it is an unfair advantage over there, it really isn't. Your sudden needs to have a boon removal trap is so far fetched that I really don't think both of the things is connected at all.

boon strips is like stability or interrupt or when to use a skill to counter another, when to dodge, when to kite. it has nothing what so ever to do with trap or watchtower.

There fore i do not think there should be a trap to remove boon. because if there is, than i want a spike trap and smoke trap and hand grenade, and a hook to throw around so i can sling away if i am outnumbered, and siege repellent trap (actually this one is good) when enemy drop a ram on your gate the ram is immediately locked down or gets when it is avalaible to be build again it needs double the amount of the usual supply) etc.

1. It's not removal. It's not even forbidding boons to yourself. It's forbidding boon sharing, READ.
2. If you don't use target painter that's your fault. You don't ever get to complain about stealth builds then because you refuse to try to do anything about them. I have caused zergs to wipe by target painting them on stealth push.
3. What does stealth have to do with trap or watchtower? Why is it fair for stealth to be impacted by these random things but NEVER EVER for boon spam or heal spam?

1) boon sharing is skill balances problem.Then it's never going to get solved because balance has been ice age'd since February.

2) if you dont get in squad then its your problemSo WvW should be 3 way map blobs 24/7, I'd love to play Pikmin simulator but that sounds dumb.

3) stealth tapping a keep? stealth zerging a keep? stealth flipping your whole borderland? stealth baiting people at sentry, hell the other day, this one guardian was stealth killing my people at roque quarry, he flipped it, build a golem, and then some how climbed on to the rock that is not climable , go invisible and then jumps at you and lay trap, like hello?? , you can't even watchtower or target painter to counter that.LOOOOOOOOOOL there is nothing left to say but learn to play but thanks for the laugh.

[SweetPotato.7456]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:Watch tower tactic is the most hard to get from your skirmish chests.Getting players to install target painter is also the hardest thing to do in WvWSo, while you think that it is an unfair advantage over there, it really isn't. Your sudden needs to have a boon removal trap is so far fetched that I really don't think both of the things is connected at all.

boon strips is like stability or interrupt or when to use a skill to counter another, when to dodge, when to kite. it has nothing what so ever to do with trap or watchtower.

There fore i do not think there should be a trap to remove boon. because if there is, than i want a spike trap and smoke trap and hand grenade, and a hook to throw around so i can sling away if i am outnumbered, and siege repellent trap (actually this one is good) when enemy drop a ram on your gate the ram is immediately locked down or gets when it is avalaible to be build again it needs double the amount of the usual supply) etc.

1. It's not removal. It's not even forbidding boons to yourself. It's forbidding boon sharing, READ.
2. If you don't use target painter that's your fault. You don't ever get to complain about stealth builds then because you refuse to try to do anything about them. I have caused zergs to wipe by target painting them on stealth push.
3. What does stealth have to do with trap or watchtower? Why is it fair for stealth to be impacted by these random things but NEVER EVER for boon spam or heal spam?

1) boon sharing is skill balances problem.Then it's never going to get solved because balance has been ice age'd since February.

2) if you dont get in squad then its your problemSo WvW should be 3 way map blobs 24/7, I'd love to play Pikmin simulator but that sounds dumb.

3) stealth tapping a keep? stealth zerging a keep? stealth flipping your whole borderland? stealth baiting people at sentry, hell the other day, this one guardian was stealth killing my people at roque quarry, he flipped it, build a golem, and then some how climbed on to the rock that is not climable , go invisible and then jumps at you and lay trap, like hello?? , you can't even watchtower or target painter to counter that.LOOOOOOOOOOL there is nothing left to say but learn to play but thanks for the laugh.

1) Well, if you know that, why are you making more problem for the other area of the game mode, there is no problem with watch tower nor is there one with target painter. learn to sneak better2) Same thing can be said to your stupid dumb comment , dumb comment gets dumb answer.3) You just want to perma stealth don't you? you play a thief?

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@SweetPotato.7456 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:Watch tower tactic is the most hard to get from your skirmish chests.Getting players to install target painter is also the hardest thing to do in WvWSo, while you think that it is an unfair advantage over there, it really isn't. Your sudden needs to have a boon removal trap is so far fetched that I really don't think both of the things is connected at all.

boon strips is like stability or interrupt or when to use a skill to counter another, when to dodge, when to kite. it has nothing what so ever to do with trap or watchtower.

There fore i do not think there should be a trap to remove boon. because if there is, than i want a spike trap and smoke trap and hand grenade, and a hook to throw around so i can sling away if i am outnumbered, and siege repellent trap (actually this one is good) when enemy drop a ram on your gate the ram is immediately locked down or gets when it is avalaible to be build again it needs double the amount of the usual supply) etc.

1. It's not removal. It's not even forbidding boons to yourself. It's forbidding boon sharing, READ.
2. If you don't use target painter that's your fault. You don't ever get to complain about stealth builds then because you refuse to try to do anything about them. I have caused zergs to wipe by target painting them on stealth push.
3. What does stealth have to do with trap or watchtower? Why is it fair for stealth to be impacted by these random things but NEVER EVER for boon spam or heal spam?

2) if you dont get in squad then its your problem3) stealth tapping a keep? stealth zerging a keep? stealth flipping your whole borderland? stealth baiting people at sentry, hell the other day, this one guardian was stealth killing my people at roque quarry, he flipped it, build a golem, and then some how climbed on to the rock that is not climable , go invisible and then jumps at you and lay trap, like hello?? , you can't even watchtower or target painter to counter that.

You can keep going but I'm just content with these two lines. I see why your first reaction on entering WvW is 'get in the squad', because you must be totally lost when not in one. HIDE YO KIDS HIDE YO WIVES THE TRAPPER RUNE DHS GONNA TAKE EVERYONE'S LIVES! He should've been on FIREBRAND and in the squad am I right? Why are you complaining about a naughty guardian actively hurting his server by not being another Minstrelbrand in a squad?

[SweetPotato.7456]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:Watch tower tactic is the most hard to get from your skirmish chests.Getting players to install target painter is also the hardest thing to do in WvWSo, while you think that it is an unfair advantage over there, it really isn't. Your sudden needs to have a boon removal trap is so far fetched that I really don't think both of the things is connected at all.

boon strips is like stability or interrupt or when to use a skill to counter another, when to dodge, when to kite. it has nothing what so ever to do with trap or watchtower.

There fore i do not think there should be a trap to remove boon. because if there is, than i want a spike trap and smoke trap and hand grenade, and a hook to throw around so i can sling away if i am outnumbered, and siege repellent trap (actually this one is good) when enemy drop a ram on your gate the ram is immediately locked down or gets when it is avalaible to be build again it needs double the amount of the usual supply) etc.

1. It's not removal. It's not even forbidding boons to yourself. It's forbidding boon sharing, READ.
2. If you don't use target painter that's your fault. You don't ever get to complain about stealth builds then because you refuse to try to do anything about them. I have caused zergs to wipe by target painting them on stealth push.
3. What does stealth have to do with trap or watchtower? Why is it fair for stealth to be impacted by these random things but NEVER EVER for boon spam or heal spam?

2) if you dont get in squad then its your problem3) stealth tapping a keep? stealth zerging a keep? stealth flipping your whole borderland? stealth baiting people at sentry, hell the other day, this one guardian was stealth killing my people at roque quarry, he flipped it, build a golem, and then some how climbed on to the rock that is not climable , go invisible and then jumps at you and lay trap, like hello?? , you can't even watchtower or target painter to counter that.

You can keep going but I'm just content with these two lines. I see why your first reaction on entering WvW is 'get in the squad', because you must be totally lost when not in one. HIDE YO KIDS HIDE YO WIVES THE TRAPPER RUNE DHS GONNA TAKE EVERYONE'S LIVES! He should've been on FIREBRAND and in the squad am I right? Why are you complaining about a naughty guardian actively hurting his server by not being another Minstrelbrand in a squad?

Sorry, wrong, lmao, so wrong. This here be lone asura, roaming and scouting, SCOUTING is my most favourite thing to do, out think the other server, and knowing when they going to hit before they do is my thing. I can't get into squad, don't have that dedication to follow a tag for a whole day. also lag kills. And who needs a squad when figuring out the best place to place siege is more fun. I can and know all good spot to place siege on all the maps, including the 3 desert keeps

[subversiontwo.7501]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@"subversiontwo.7501" said:The marked system is surely just another hackjob put in as a placeholder until proper balance could have been done, that has since just lingered in true Anet fashion.

However, somehow suggesting that boons are anywhere near as oppressive as stealth is laughable and its odd not aknowledging that a removal of the bad marked system also needs to come with a complete overhaul of the Thief class' stealth mechanics and possibly even a full redesign of its specialisations, where mere balance is probably not enough to create something fun and functional.

Like most people though, I'd rather have Thieves balanced without a bunch of tacked on extra systems made just for them and that Thieves are still stiflingly popular despite the marked system also says quite alot about where the actual balance is.

If you think 4 support builds (5 if you count the rare Chrono) basically carrying the meta is somehow less oppressive than one roamer class, well you're just wrong lol. Thieves won't be balanced to people like you til they are actually useless, and they are pretty close to that other than picking off 1 random zergling at a time.Look, among the more experienced players at smaller scale you are seeing a decreasing amount of content almost exclusively due a growing popularity of Thieves because they have pushed so far ahead of other classes that rely on mobility and other factors to fight outnumbered. That is a balance issue and down to mechanics.

That you complain about other players adapting by bringing on support classes so you can't run-away solo them as easily by resetting combat and draining their cooldowns or hitpoint pools that is a gameplay issue since you can make friends to even out the numbers and organize a sufficient amount of control and burst to beat the support classes.

So you are literally just here whining about not getting a free card for everything. At the end of the day, you can't scale up, organize better or simply L2P to bridge the gap in mobility and resets while you most certainly can match opposing numbers and coordinate enough burst to break through a support class - a support class that is often only played because of the overblown dominance of Thieves to begin with.

We have marked debuffs only because of Thieves. We have solo-duo roamers opting for supporting pairing and scaling up their groups only because of Thieves. Thieves still remain dominant among higher end small scale gameplay, so we are for example seeing less content from content producers who used to play Warrior, Elementalist or any other popular oldschool setup while we are seeing more and more Thieves sprinkled with the odd Tower-ranger or Tower-mesmer. The only thing to say against some of those players and classes is that the small scale meta has always been even more exclusive than large scale where you've had about half the classes above the other half to the point where the lower half has almost always only had some gimmick builds to attempt to compete on. However, now we're seeing more of three tiers instead and that's a development in the wrong direction.

It's one thing claiming people will not be happy until a class is gone and another being so delusional that you can't see them increasing in popularity to a degree that stifles content around the game to where there is more and more Thief-Thief mirrors and less of everything else.

If we're talking about larger scale, then sure, your options are limited, but the same thing goes for larger scale as it does for breaking support-pairing at duo to party scale: It's important to find friends and learn to havoc. Thieves may have limited options at larger scale but they still have options if one adapts to play their role. There's a difference between being effective at larger scale content and being easy to fit into a pickup meta. If the argument would be to improve the Thief class' appeal in pickups, that's another discussion and one I would be open to suggestions on. Those wouldn't necessarily require nerfs.

So what meta are we talking about here? Solo? Duo? 2-5? 1vX? Duo v X? You'll see that Thief is meta in all of them and its the only meta in some of them. If it's something larger I suggest you learn to havoc and you can remain impactful.

Until that is framed, I'll just have to go by your post history and assume that this thread only exists because support makes it not as easy for you to just reset-win in 1vX scenarios and that you've made this thread because all the recent valid stealth-nerfing threads here has made you cranky.

So, for whatever has been said in this thread so far: You, like many other Thieves, are getting carried by your class and you make threads like this one every time you come up against the most minor challenge while proving that you are completely incapable of putting that challenge into a context. Perhaps it shouldn't be easy to just exploit resets to "bait" out opponents cooldowns when they have doubled up on numbers and specifically bring support to counter exactly that? They are litterally doing everything they can to specifically counter what you rely upon and that it works to some degree isn't enough for you so you come here calling for nerfs.

Lol indeed.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:The marked system is surely just another hackjob put in as a placeholder until proper balance could have been done, that has since just lingered in true Anet fashion.

However, somehow suggesting that boons are anywhere near as oppressive as stealth is laughable and its odd not aknowledging that a removal of the bad marked system also needs to come with a complete overhaul of the Thief class' stealth mechanics and possibly even a full redesign of its specialisations, where mere balance is probably not enough to create something fun and functional.

Like most people though, I'd rather have Thieves balanced without a bunch of tacked on extra systems made just for them and that Thieves are still stiflingly popular despite the marked system also says quite alot about where the actual balance is.

If you think 4 support builds (5 if you count the rare Chrono) basically carrying the meta is somehow less oppressive than one roamer class, well you're just wrong lol. Thieves won't be balanced to people like you til they are actually useless, and they are pretty close to that other than picking off 1 random zergling at a time.Look, among the more experienced players at smaller scale you are seeing a decreasing amount of content almost exclusively due a growing popularity of Thieves because they have pushed so far ahead of other classes that rely on mobility and other factors to fight outnumbered. That is a balance issue and down to mechanics.

That you complain about other players adapting by bringing on support classes so you can't run-away solo them as easily by resetting combat and draining their cooldowns or hitpoint pools that is a gameplay issue since you can make friends to even out the numbers and organize a sufficient amount of control and burst to beat the support classes.

So you are literally just here whining about not getting a free card for everything. At the end of the day, you can't scale up, organize better or simply L2P to bridge the gap in mobility and resets while you most certainly can match opposing numbers and coordinate enough burst to break through a support class - a support class that is often only played because of the overblown dominance of Thieves to begin with.

We have marked debuffs only because of Thieves. We have solo-duo roamers opting for supporting pairing and scaling up their groups only because of Thieves. Thieves still remain dominant among higher end small scale gameplay, so we are for example seeing less content from content producers who used to play Warrior, Elementalist or any other popular oldschool setup while we are seeing more and more Thieves sprinkled with the odd Tower-ranger or Tower-mesmer. The only thing to say against some of those players and classes is that the small scale meta has always been even more exclusive than large scale where you've had about half the classes above the other half to the point where the lower half has almost always only had some gimmick builds to attempt to compete on. However, now we're seeing more of three tiers instead and that's a development in the wrong direction.

It's one thing claiming people will not be happy until a class is gone and another being so delusional that you can't see them increasing in popularity to a degree that stifles content around the game to where there is more and more Thief-Thief mirrors and less of everything else.

If we're talking about larger scale, then sure, your options are limited, but the same thing goes for larger scale as it does for breaking support-pairing at duo to party scale: It's important to find friends and learn to havoc. Thieves may have limited options at larger scale but they still have options if one adapts to play their role. There's a difference between being effective at larger scale content and being easy to fit into a pickup meta. If the argument would be to improve the Thief class' appeal in pickups, that's another discussion and one I would be open to suggestions on. Those wouldn't necessarily require nerfs.

So what meta are we talking about here? Solo? Duo? 2-5? 1vX? Duo v X? You'll see that Thief is meta in all of them and its the only meta in some of them. If it's something larger I suggest you learn to havoc and you can remain impactful.

Until that is framed, I'll just have to go by your post history and assume that this thread only exists because support makes it not as easy for you to just reset-win in 1vX scenarios and that you've made this thread because all the recent valid stealth-nerfing threads here has made you cranky.

So, for whatever has been said in this thread so far: You, like many other Thieves, are getting carried by your class and you make threads like this one every time you come up against the most minor challenge while proving that you are completely incapable of putting that challenge into a context. Perhaps it shouldn't be easy to just exploit resets to "bait" out opponents cooldowns when they have doubled up on numbers and specifically bring support to counter exactly that? They are litterally doing everything they can to specifically counter what you rely upon and that it works to some degree isn't enough for you so you come here calling for nerfs.

Lol indeed.

THIEF KILLED ME Q___Q

Could copy paste this whole rant into 2015 and I would ignore it all the same, L2P. THE SKY IS FALLING, THIEVES ARE MAKING EVERYONE GO MINSTREL!

Also I'm not even complaining about Marked, because I can L2P around it and I constantly use it to take down thieves. I cannot L2P around 3.5k armor healer meatshields since February power nerfs, and neither can my revenant, my dragonhunter, my shatter mesmer, or my power warrior.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Could copy paste this whole rant into 2015 and I would ignore it all the same, L2P. THE SKY IS FALLING, THIEVES ARE MAKING EVERYONE GO MINSTREL!An interesting choice of words from someone who just made an entire thread to whine about people going Minstrel B)

[Straegen.2938]

Thieves are specifically designed to be strong in small scale because they are utterly useless in large scale so expecting to win vs a thief in 1v1 is dumb. However thieves have been nerfed so routinely over the years they aren't even a premier small scale class any longer. There are so few thief builds left that are functional. D/D, S/?, P/P are essentially dead. Rifle on life support. Shortbow pretty much only mobility. D/P and P/D are the only functional weapons left and they have been routinely nerfed.

They are now mostly useless outside of plus one in fights, scouting, picking off bad players or killing other thieves. The only real negative issue left with thieves is the stealth mechanic in GW2 that allows for thieves to troll players with little recourse. Everything else about them has been nerfed to the point that only a handful of good ones remain.

Anti-thief complainers have won. Take a lap because the class is a couple more nerfs away from getting a fork in them.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Straegen.2938 said:Thieves are specifically designed to be strong in small scale because they are utterly useless in large scale so expecting to win vs a thief in 1v1 is dumb. However thieves have been nerfed so routinely over the years they aren't even a premier small scale class any longer. There are so few thief builds left that are functional. D/D, S/?, P/P are essentially dead. Rifle on life support. Shortbow pretty much only mobility. D/P and P/D are the only functional weapons left and they have been routinely nerfed.

They are now mostly useless outside of plus one in fights, scouting, picking off bad players or killing other thieves. The only real negative issue left with thieves is the stealth mechanic in GW2 that allows for thieves to troll players with little recourse. Everything else about them has been nerfed to the point that only a handful of good ones remain.

Anti-thief complainers have won. Take a lap because the class is a couple more nerfs away from getting a fork in them.

I'm sure someone will pop in here suggesting that venomshare or staff monkey thief is a valid large scale build. People won't be satisfied til no one is playing thief, because even with all the reveals and all the marked in the game they cannot put enough neurons together to deal with stealth.