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When is Next Balance Patch?


X T D.6458

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Straegen.2938" said:By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs, ignoring Rev damage, creating even stronger Pew-Pew and making Necros and Guardians even more OP? They will also screw up elementalist timing but not actually improve or balance anything on the class. Mesmers will get some build neutered but likely create a new build that has some strange balance issue. Oh and they will further nerf warrior melee abilities. The only smart thing they will likely do is leave engis alone.

Did I miss anyone?

So many things wrong with this. Rev has had its power skills nerfed so many times that condi is the favored way to play it now, Scourge has had Shades reworked and nerfed repeatedly, Engi is almost entirely reliant on Grenade Barrage and Explosives because it hits like a potato without them, Warrior gets
buffs
on melee skills almost every patch...

Also
Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

Thief does no damage btw. I made one this week and have been enjoying myself a lot. Not a single piece of Berserker in my build, all Marauder + Valkyire. No Force sigil.
I didn't have
25 Might or 25 Bloodlust in either of those screens, and I don't use Assassin's Signet. I have been
regularly
hitting 10k Backstabs and 10k+ Heartseekers. I'll bet if I went all in I could hit quite a lot harder.

Imagine playing Thief without Shadow Arts.

EDIT:Realized the second screen might be misleading since I said I didn't have 25 Bloodlust. Look at the scroll bar. It was a small fight of 6 - 8 versus 6 - 8. I did not have 25 Bloodlust at the time of landing that Backstab. I killed a few players afterward and retreated inside to check my combat log so I could screen cap. 25 Bloodlust makes a pretty sizable difference so I want to be clear that the 14k I landed could have been 15k.

Now you have shown that I expect to see major thief buffs next week- that's usually how balance works here....

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Straegen.2938" said:By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs, ignoring Rev damage, creating even stronger Pew-Pew and making Necros and Guardians even more OP? They will also screw up elementalist timing but not actually improve or balance anything on the class. Mesmers will get some build neutered but likely create a new build that has some strange balance issue. Oh and they will further nerf warrior melee abilities. The only smart thing they will likely do is leave engis alone.

Did I miss anyone?

So many things wrong with this. Rev has had its power skills nerfed so many times that condi is the favored way to play it now, Scourge has had Shades reworked and nerfed repeatedly, Engi is almost entirely reliant on Grenade Barrage and Explosives because it hits like a potato without them, Warrior gets
buffs
on melee skills almost every patch...

Also
Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

Thief does no damage btw. I made one this week and have been enjoying myself a lot. Not a single piece of Berserker in my build, all Marauder + Valkyire. No Force sigil.
I didn't have
25 Might or 25 Bloodlust in either of those screens, and I don't use Assassin's Signet. I have been
regularly
hitting 10k Backstabs and 10k+ Heartseekers. I'll bet if I went all in I could hit quite a lot harder.

Imagine playing Thief without Shadow Arts.

EDIT:Realized the second screen might be misleading since I said I didn't have 25 Bloodlust. Look at the scroll bar. It was a small fight of 6 - 8 versus 6 - 8. I did not have 25 Bloodlust at the time of landing that Backstab. I killed a few players afterward and retreated inside to check my combat log so I could screen cap. 25 Bloodlust makes a pretty sizable difference so I want to be clear that the 14k I landed could have been 15k.

Do na people even use gear? I cant remember the last time I see them numbers, infact it was well over 2 years ago when I got a 15k bs from a full malice de, when it use to passively gain stacks

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Straegen.2938" said:By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs, ignoring Rev damage, creating even stronger Pew-Pew and making Necros and Guardians even more OP? They will also screw up elementalist timing but not actually improve or balance anything on the class. Mesmers will get some build neutered but likely create a new build that has some strange balance issue. Oh and they will further nerf warrior melee abilities. The only smart thing they will likely do is leave engis alone.

Did I miss anyone?

So many things wrong with this. Rev has had its power skills nerfed so many times that condi is the favored way to play it now, Scourge has had Shades reworked and nerfed repeatedly, Engi is almost entirely reliant on Grenade Barrage and Explosives because it hits like a potato without them, Warrior gets
buffs
on melee skills almost every patch...

Also
Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

Thief does no damage btw. I made one this week and have been enjoying myself a lot. Not a single piece of Berserker in my build, all Marauder + Valkyire. No Force sigil.
I didn't have
25 Might or 25 Bloodlust in either of those screens, and I don't use Assassin's Signet. I have been
regularly
hitting 10k Backstabs and 10k+ Heartseekers. I'll bet if I went all in I could hit quite a lot harder.

Imagine playing Thief without Shadow Arts.

EDIT:Realized the second screen might be misleading since I said I didn't have 25 Bloodlust. Look at the scroll bar. It was a small fight of 6 - 8 versus 6 - 8. I did not have 25 Bloodlust at the time of landing that Backstab. I killed a few players afterward and retreated inside to check my combat log so I could screen cap. 25 Bloodlust makes a pretty sizable difference so I want to be clear that the 14k I landed could have been 15k.

Sry no that is wrong frontline power rev with hammer is back at least in Wvw this happens because of uber/extreme aura Tempest makes condi built useless and power Scourge doesn't do damage any more this happens only in the last 2 weeks basically they took an inspiration from the current PvP which is berserker build.

Tempest itself the way I see they won't touch the trait in the fire traitline which is so OP with dagger/focus because it was one of their latest addition to ele so from experience we know they will nerf something random which also condi cleans or they will remove shockaura from dagger. That the same trait made fire weaver so OP they will simply ignore and when they choose a condi skill/trait they basically force ele player to take the trait(smothering Auras). Removing Shockaura would be the least impact full but still not the right decision.

While Heal Guard became useless in PvP the condi builds became also OP in all modes true if you have enough condi clean they are not much of a threat but they are also very tanky at least some of them.

Rev spike is so hard again that you won't come near the enemy zerg in wvw

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

Asking for nerfs always backfire...
eventually your main will be reached by the hands of the nerf god
....

I agree with you, also why nerf, buff can be an option too. Usually a profession is too strong because their counters are not good enough.Thats why I made a thread to Buff Warriorshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/113407/warrior-needs-a-buff#latest

...

@X T D.6458 said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

Elaborate more on Rezzing/downstate, what is it that you dislike about it.

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@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@"X T D.6458" said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

Asking for nerfs always backfire...
eventually your main will be reached by the hands of the nerf god
....

I agree with you, also why nerf, buff can be an option too. Usually a profession is too strong because their counters are not good enough.Thats why I made a thread to Buff Warriors

...

@"X T D.6458" said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

Elaborate more on Rezzing/downstate, what is it that you dislike about it.

SHHHHHHHHH.....Don't you ever dare to call for buffs on this forum.....carebears will come running at you with pitchforks , torches and a hangman's knot ..while shouting "PowerCreeeeep, Powercreeeeeppp urgh zug zug" from the top of their lungs...trust me lol

Don't ever ever ever mention the word "BUFF" on the GW2 forum...here they only want to see everything else but their profession...reduced to ashes on the ground

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"X T D.6458" said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

Asking for nerfs always backfire...
eventually your main will be reached by the hands of the nerf god
....

I agree with you, also why nerf, buff can be an option too. Usually a profession is too strong because their counters are not good enough.Thats why I made a thread to Buff Warriors

...

@"X T D.6458" said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

Elaborate more on Rezzing/downstate, what is it that you dislike about it.

SHHHHHHHHH.....Don't you ever dare to call for buffs on this forum.....carebears will come running at you with pitchforks , torches and a hangman's knot ..while shouting "PowerCreeeeep, Powercreeeeeppp urgh zug zug" from the top of their lungs...trust me lol

Don't ever ever ever mention the word "BUFF" on the GW2 forum...here they only want to see everything else but their profession...reduced to ashes on the ground

Heh funny.

Thing is, they make content harder and harder, then if you nerf people. You gotta nerf the content too. Thats more work than just buffing 1 profession or 2. Instead of nerfing several and having to nerf more stuff on top of that.

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@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

@X T D.6458 said:Just wondering, what the current timetable is for pushing out balance updates. Would like to see nerfs to stealth, boons, and rezzing/downstate...

Elaborate more on Rezzing/downstate, what is it that you dislike about it.

Personally I would like to see a rework of revive traits, and skills. Specifically protective reviver, transfusion, and illusion of life. It is frustrating trying to fight groups running boon balls that can instantly rez people back to full health. Downstate needs to be nerfed in WvW so people cant constantly rally, increasing the downed state penalty and reducing downed state hp would be a welcome change. When we had the first no downstate event, it was some of the most fun I've had in WvW. Of course any of these changes have to be done in a comprehensive manner. The goal is to promote a healthy fights environment and not a situation where groups are afraid to engage with each other, without having to rely on broken tactics like stacking dragon banners and sneak gyros.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Straegen.2938" said:By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs, ignoring Rev damage, creating even stronger Pew-Pew and making Necros and Guardians even more OP? They will also screw up elementalist timing but not actually improve or balance anything on the class. Mesmers will get some build neutered but likely create a new build that has some strange balance issue. Oh and they will further nerf warrior melee abilities. The only smart thing they will likely do is leave engis alone.

Did I miss anyone?

So many things wrong with this. Rev has had its power skills nerfed so many times that condi is the favored way to play it now, Scourge has had Shades reworked and nerfed repeatedly, Engi is almost entirely reliant on Grenade Barrage and Explosives because it hits like a potato without them, Warrior gets
buffs
on melee skills almost every patch...

Also
Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

Thief does no damage btw. I made one this week and have been enjoying myself a lot. Not a single piece of Berserker in my build, all Marauder + Valkyire. No Force sigil.
I didn't have
25 Might or 25 Bloodlust in either of those screens, and I don't use Assassin's Signet. I have been
regularly
hitting 10k Backstabs and 10k+ Heartseekers. I'll bet if I went all in I could hit quite a lot harder.

Imagine playing Thief without Shadow Arts.

EDIT:Realized the second screen might be misleading since I said I didn't have 25 Bloodlust. Look at the scroll bar. It was a small fight of 6 - 8 versus 6 - 8. I did not have 25 Bloodlust at the time of landing that Backstab. I killed a few players afterward and retreated inside to check my combat log so I could screen cap. 25 Bloodlust makes a pretty sizable difference so I want to be clear that the 14k I landed could have been 15k.

How about numbers vs golems in Armistice next time? One shotting Squire ranks possibly wearing greens isn't really a good representation.

Edit: Also assuming you're Deadly Arts, Crit Strikes, and Trickery, you will get steamrolled by any condition build without them even trying.

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@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:How about numbers vs golems in Armistice next time? One shotting Squire ranks possibly wearing greens isn't really a good representation.

The Mithril rank standing next to his keep with Presence of the Keep buff is irrelevant then?

If you'd like I can share a few dozen more. I've been screen capping all the 10k+ hits I've been getting in the week I've been playing Thief.

And in case anyone misunderstands me, I'm not saying "nerf Thief" or that I have a problem with the class. I'm merely stating that Thief is still perfectly capable of spiking people for large numbers despite how often I see people claiming otherwise.Lots of classes are still capable of enormous damage, and many don't need to go all in on offensive stats/traits to do so. Trickery/Shadow Arts/Daredevil does no damage because it's two defensive trees. It would be like a Reaper taking Blood Magic/Death Magic/Reaper, ofc it's going to hit like a noodle.

I apologize for the focus on Thief, but the person I was replying to is a Thief main and was saying -

By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs

Which I get a laugh out of because I see this so often. Everything gets frequent nerfs, it isn't exclusive to Thief, and some people act like it's a problem that you actually have to choose offensive trait lines to do damage.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:How about numbers vs golems in Armistice next time? One shotting Squire ranks possibly wearing greens isn't really a good representation.

The Mithril rank standing next to his keep with Presence of the Keep buff is irrelevant then?

If you'd like I can share a few dozen more. I've been screen capping all the 10k+ hits I've been getting in the week I've been playing Thief.

And in case anyone misunderstands me, I'm not saying "nerf Thief" or that I have a problem with the class. I'm merely stating that Thief is still perfectly capable of spiking people for large numbers despite how often I see people claiming otherwise.Lots of classes are still capable of enormous damage, and many don't need to go all in on offensive stats/traits to do so. Trickery/Shadow Arts/Daredevil does no damage because it's two defensive trees. It would be like a Reaper taking Blood Magic/Death Magic/Reaper, ofc it's going to hit like a noodle.

I apologize for the focus on Thief, but the person I was replying to is a Thief main and was saying -

By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs

Which I get a laugh out of because I see this so often.
Everything
gets frequent nerfs, it isn't exclusive to Thief, and some people act like it's a problem that you actually have to choose offensive trait lines to do damage.

I'd say no, not relevant because I highly doubt these pictures were after February lol. I just went running around with DA CS T with Scholar runes and Marauder/Zerk. Highest backstab I hit was 11k with bloodlust stacks and my keep buff, so unless you're hitting naked people...

My stats without keep guild aura, with food and stacks

CwdVSb8.png

Also why is Daredevil a defensive line to you??? Is Reaper a defensive line?? On a Death Magic, Soul Reaping, Reaper build which to me is the equivalent of SA Daredevil I can hit 8k shroud 2s still...

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@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:How about numbers vs golems in Armistice next time? One shotting Squire ranks possibly wearing greens isn't really a good representation.

The Mithril rank standing next to his keep with Presence of the Keep buff is irrelevant then?

If you'd like I can share a few dozen more. I've been screen capping all the 10k+ hits I've been getting in the week I've been playing Thief.

And in case anyone misunderstands me, I'm not saying "nerf Thief" or that I have a problem with the class. I'm merely stating that Thief is still perfectly capable of spiking people for large numbers despite how often I see people claiming otherwise.Lots of classes are still capable of enormous damage, and many don't need to go all in on offensive stats/traits to do so. Trickery/Shadow Arts/Daredevil does no damage because it's two defensive trees. It would be like a Reaper taking Blood Magic/Death Magic/Reaper, ofc it's going to hit like a noodle.

I apologize for the focus on Thief, but the person I was replying to is a Thief main and was saying -

By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs

Which I get a laugh out of because I see this so often.
Everything
gets frequent nerfs, it isn't exclusive to Thief, and some people act like it's a problem that you actually have to choose offensive trait lines to do damage.

I'd say no, not relevant because I highly doubt these pictures were after February lol. I just went running around with DA CS T with Scholar runes and Marauder/Zerk. Highest backstab I hit was 11k with bloodlust stacks and my keep buff, so unless you're hitting naked people...

My stats without keep guild aura, with food and stacks

CwdVSb8.png

Also why is Daredevil a defensive line to you??? Is Reaper a defensive line?? On a Death Magic, Soul Reaping, Reaper build which to me is the equivalent of SA Daredevil I can hit 8k shroud 2s still...

8oREF3L.jpg

I don't know what more proof I can give. These are just screen caps I've taken in the wild. I'm not playing a build designed to land the highest possible crits and I'm not going around looking for people that are probably upleveled or that might be naked.

I didn't say Daredevil is a defensive line. I'd consider Trickery to be a utility line though. It isn't strictly damage and it isn't totally defense. It's a bit like Soul Reaping, it has some damage traits but it's more centered on improving core mechanics (in the case of Trickery, that would be Steal and Initiative, and Soul Reaping is Life Force and Shroud.)

Here's one I just took like... An hour ago. Look at the clock on my desktop and the clock on the mini map.I was using Assassin's Signet but I had not activated it for that Backstab.1dnIwdY.jpg

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@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Also why is Daredevil a defensive line to you??? Is Reaper a defensive line?? On a Death Magic, Soul Reaping, Reaper build which to me is the equivalent of SA Daredevil I can hit 8k shroud 2s still...

Daredevil is a defensive line by Anet's own definition.

Daredevil is a bruiser spec (which is this game's equivalent of a tank), not a primary damage dealer. If you want to compare daredevil to another elite spec, you made the wrong choice, since reaper is a dps spec.

Elite specs which are comparable with daredevil are scrapper and spellbreaker.Elite specs comparable with reaper are stuff like holosmith and berserker.These are 2 very different types of elite spec classes.

One is supposed to increase your survivability and CC (daredevil through dodges, scrapper through barrier, spellbreaker through the counter mechanic) with some damage.The other is supposed to increase your damage potential primarily (photon forge, reaper's shroud, berserk).

So yes, daredevil is a defensive trait line.

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@X T D.6458 said:

@"Straegen.2938" said:By "balance" patch you mean more thief nerfs, ignoring Rev damage, creating even stronger Pew-Pew and making Necros and Guardians even more OP? They will also screw up elementalist timing but not actually improve or balance anything on the class. Mesmers will get some build neutered but likely create a new build that has some strange balance issue. Oh and they will further nerf warrior melee abilities. The only smart thing they will likely do is leave engis alone.

Did I miss anyone?

Engineers are putting out a little too much healing and barrier spam, would be nice to have some viable offensive builds.

dps scrapper with bomb kit have usually the highest damage output in large scale and close range fights. No need for more offensive builfs. Holosmith for roaming is good too. Afaik there is a one shot build...

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@GoldenPants.1870 said:I just wish that Grenade Barrage would get mega nerfed. Along with the insane barrier generation for scrapper for the amount of dmg it deals. the whole explsoive traitline needs to be looked at.

And the grenade kit.

I remember when throwing grenades would kill yourself, with ret doing more damage per hit than the grenade did to the enemy. It was like suicide.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Also why is Daredevil a defensive line to you??? Is Reaper a defensive line?? On a Death Magic, Soul Reaping, Reaper build which to me is the equivalent of SA Daredevil I can hit 8k shroud 2s still...

Daredevil is a defensive line by Anet's own definition.

Daredevil is a
bruiser
spec (which is this game's equivalent of a tank), not a primary damage dealer. If you want to compare daredevil to another elite spec, you made the wrong choice, since reaper is a
dps
spec.

Elite specs which are comparable with daredevil are scrapper and spellbreaker.Elite specs comparable with reaper are stuff like holosmith and berserker.These are 2 very different types of elite spec classes.

One is supposed to increase your survivability and CC (daredevil through dodges, scrapper through barrier, spellbreaker through the counter mechanic) with some damage.The other is supposed to increase your damage potential primarily (photon forge, reaper's shroud, berserk).

So yes, daredevil is a defensive trait line.

You need to show me where Anet has these definitions lol. What is weaver then? Mirage? You sure you didn't just make all that up?

Half of the utilities you get from Daredevil are attacks.

If Holo is offensive, why does it get Adrenal Health level regen, a block utility, a protection field utility, and a straight up nearly-turn-off-all-condi-and-power-damage utility?

If Reaper is offensive, why does it have the most stability out of any necro elite spec (Shroud 3 also reduces damage from all sources by 20%), have a built in projectile block (Shroud 2)

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@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Also why is Daredevil a defensive line to you??? Is Reaper a defensive line?? On a Death Magic, Soul Reaping, Reaper build which to me is the equivalent of SA Daredevil I can hit 8k shroud 2s still...

Daredevil is a defensive line by Anet's own definition.

Daredevil is a
bruiser
spec (which is this game's equivalent of a tank), not a primary damage dealer. If you want to compare daredevil to another elite spec, you made the wrong choice, since reaper is a
dps
spec.

Elite specs which are comparable with daredevil are scrapper and spellbreaker.Elite specs comparable with reaper are stuff like holosmith and berserker.These are 2 very different types of elite spec classes.

One is supposed to increase your survivability and CC (daredevil through dodges, scrapper through barrier, spellbreaker through the counter mechanic) with some damage.The other is supposed to increase your damage potential primarily (photon forge, reaper's shroud, berserk).

So yes, daredevil is a defensive trait line.

You need to show me where Anet has these definitions lol. What is weaver then? Mirage? You sure you didn't just make all that up?

Half of the utilities you get from Daredevil are attacks.

Half of the utilities you get from scrapper are also attacks. Do you really want to claim that scrapper is not a defensive line?

Anet has mentioned that specs are supposed to be defensive bruisers in the past. It has been the very reason for the major rework of the scrapper elite spec, since this was supposed to be a tanky bruiser and it didn't do that job really well in the first iteration.

Also, if you are really questioning that daredevil is a defensive trait line, then tell me why Anet has chosen these words to advertise it themselves:

Training in the path of the Daredevil does not come easily, but those who dare are rewarded with the reserves that will help them endure as they enter the jungle.They put emphasis on the spec being durable, not on it being a heavy damage dealer.

Meanwhile the description of the reaper you compared it with:

An inexorable force on the battlefield, the reaper empowers itself enough to wield a cleaving greatsword to harvest its foes. Slow and hard-hitting, these deadly combatants call out the impending doom of their enemies with piercing shouts. Upon accumulating sufficient life force, they can enter the reaper’s shroud, a deadly form that grants them a dark scythe of malevolent energy and the abilities to match it. Capable of heavily afflicting their victims with chill and other conditions, the reaper wades into melee receiving and dealing blows knowing nothing can save its foes!See a difference? Daredevil is described as a durable combatant, someone who survives.Reaper is described as a damage machine. "Slow and hard hitting", "deadly combatants", "impeding doom of their enemies", "reaper's shroud, a deadly form".Way more emphasis on damage here.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Also why is Daredevil a defensive line to you??? Is Reaper a defensive line?? On a Death Magic, Soul Reaping, Reaper build which to me is the equivalent of SA Daredevil I can hit 8k shroud 2s still...

Daredevil is a defensive line by Anet's own definition.

Daredevil is a
bruiser
spec (which is this game's equivalent of a tank), not a primary damage dealer. If you want to compare daredevil to another elite spec, you made the wrong choice, since reaper is a
dps
spec.

Elite specs which are comparable with daredevil are scrapper and spellbreaker.Elite specs comparable with reaper are stuff like holosmith and berserker.These are 2 very different types of elite spec classes.

One is supposed to increase your survivability and CC (daredevil through dodges, scrapper through barrier, spellbreaker through the counter mechanic) with some damage.The other is supposed to increase your damage potential primarily (photon forge, reaper's shroud, berserk).

So yes, daredevil is a defensive trait line.

You need to show me where Anet has these definitions lol. What is weaver then? Mirage? You sure you didn't just make all that up?

Half of the utilities you get from Daredevil are attacks.

Half of the utilities you get from scrapper are also attacks. Do you really want to claim that scrapper is not a defensive line?

Anet has mentioned that specs are supposed to be defensive bruisers in the past. It has been the very reason for the major rework of the scrapper elite spec, since this was supposed to be a tanky bruiser and it didn't do that job really well in the first iteration.

Also, if you are really questioning that daredevil is a defensive trait line, then tell me why Anet has chosen these words to advertise it themselves:

Training in the path of the Daredevil does not come easily, but those who dare are rewarded with the reserves that
will help them endure
as they enter the jungle.They put emphasis on the spec being durable, not on it being a heavy damage dealer.

Meanwhile the description of the reaper you compared it with:

An inexorable force on the battlefield, the reaper empowers itself enough to wield a cleaving greatsword to harvest its foes. Slow and hard-hitting, these deadly combatants call out the impending doom of their enemies with piercing shouts. Upon accumulating sufficient life force, they can enter the reaper’s shroud, a deadly form that grants them a dark scythe of malevolent energy and the abilities to match it. Capable of heavily afflicting their victims with chill and other conditions, the reaper wades into melee receiving and dealing blows knowing nothing can save its foes!See a difference? Daredevil is described as a durable combatant, someone who
survives
.Reaper is described as a damage machine. "Slow and hard hitting", "deadly combatants", "impeding doom of their enemies", "reaper's shroud, a deadly form".Way more emphasis on damage here.

Very offensive trait right here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blighter%27s_Boon

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relentless_Pursuit

Very offensive indeed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heat_Therapy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectrum_Shield

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hard_Light_Arena

Now how about we use our actual brains instead of relying on paragraphs written for marketing 3-5 years ago. I'm not the one defining elite specs as offensive or defensive, ya'll are. I view them as utility lines.

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@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

Very offensive trait right here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blighter%27s_Boon

Very offensive indeed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heat_Therapy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectrum_Shield

Now how about we use our actual brains instead of relying on paragraphs written for marketing 3-5 years ago.

Ok, then you might want to think for a second why these 2 specs have these traits. Yes, these traits are defensive. They are there to enable these 2 classes to do their job, which is being a damage dealer primarily.You can't deal damage if you are dead and since holosmith and reaper are both forced into melee to do damage, they get some defense along the way to survive while they are unloading their damage.

Don't know if you are familiar with the terms of league of legends, but in their teminology, holosmith and reaper are skirmishers. Primary damage dealers which are using offensive stats to deal damage, while they get mechanics to reduce and avoid damage to survive in the time window they need to deal their damage.

But they are not designed to withstand as much pressure as the primary defensive specs, like daredevil and scrapper. These have way stronger defensive capabilities and can survive more pressure than the damage dealers. They also get damage traits, but their main function is survival and CC.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

Very offensive trait right here

Very offensive indeed

Now how about we use our actual brains instead of relying on paragraphs written for marketing 3-5 years ago.

Ok, then you might want to think for a second why these 2 specs have these traits. Yes, these traits are defensive. They are there to enable these 2 classes to do their job, which is being a
damage dealer
primarily.

I guess Daredevil is offensive then! It lets me evade and do my job as a damage dealer! /s

You can't deal damage if you are dead and since holosmith and reaper are both forced into melee to do damage, they get some defense along the way to survive while they are unloading their damage.

Ah so they get SOME defensive tools like Daredevil, but aren't considered defensive got it...

Don't know if you are familiar with the terms of league of legends, but in their teminology, holosmith and reaper are skirmishers. Primary damage dealers which are using offensive stats to deal damage, while they get mechanics to reduce and avoid damage to survive in the time window they need to deal their damage.

The irony that all of this applies to Daredevil too, lol. These traits aren't offensive to you at all? Please classify Soulbeast for me next lmfao

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikeshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Havoc_Specialist

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@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Very offensive trait right here

Very offensive indeed

Now how about we use our actual brains instead of relying on paragraphs written for marketing 3-5 years ago.

Ok, then you might want to think for a second why these 2 specs have these traits. Yes, these traits are defensive. They are there to enable these 2 classes to do their job, which is being a
damage dealer
primarily.

I guess Daredevil is offensive then! It lets me evade and do my job as a damage dealer! /s

You can't deal damage if you are dead and since holosmith and reaper are both forced into melee to do damage, they get some defense along the way to survive while they are unloading their damage.

Ah so they get SOME defensive tools like Daredevil, but aren't considered defensive got it...

Don't know if you are familiar with the terms of league of legends, but in their teminology, holosmith and reaper are skirmishers. Primary damage dealers which are using offensive stats to deal damage, while they get mechanics to reduce and avoid damage to survive in the time window they need to deal their damage.

The irony that all of this applies to Daredevil too, lol. These traits aren't offensive to you at all? Please classify Soulbeast for me next lmfao

It's about nuance, daredevil has way more emphasis on CC and damage avoidance than actual damage dealing elite specs.Seems that you don't see that, tho.

It also makes no sense gameplaywise. Thief was already able to deal heavy damage in melee before Heart of Thorns. Elite specs were advertised and supposed to give the classes new options and playstyles. Hence why thief got daredevil as a bruiser elite spec, something that has the primary function to survive. They are basically an evade tank, that playstyle was not available for thief before.

Anet didn't design daredevil to fill a niche that thief was already well capable of before. But anyway, believe what you want, you can keep telling yourself that daredevil is a a damage spec. Just don't expect balance decisions to be made around that idea.

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That you keep persisting to deny daredevil trait line which contains 15%+10% dmg buffs to be considered offensive if traited is baffling. Acrobatics is purely defensive. There isn't a single thing that boosts damage on its own in that one.

What is even the purpose of this semantics arguement about marketing fluff.

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@aleron.1438 said:That you keep persisting to deny daredevil trait line which contains 15%+10% dmg buffs to be considered offensive if traited is baffling. Acrobatics is purely defensive. There isn't a single thing that boosts damage on its own in that one.

What is even the purpose of this semantics arguement about marketing fluff.

He was comparing daredevil with reaper and mentioned that reaper can still hit pretty hard even with 1 defensive trait line and 1 utility trait line.Daredevil shouldn't hit as hard as reaper in such a setup, since daredevil is primarily supposed to be a defensive trait line.

Yes, it has damage. All the other bruiser/tank elite specs in the game also have some damage modifiers. But a scrapper is not going to hit as hard as a holosmith, since holosmith is designed around dealing damage while scrapper has way more of it's power budget located in defense.

I was just informing that it is natural that a daredevil shouldn't hit as hard as dedicated damage dealer elite specs, since it isn't supposed to be one of them.

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