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What has happened to this games wvw pvp and pvp in genera


Beezl.4180

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@Arheundel.6451 said:Stats themselves do little to the overall balance, something broken in PvP will most certainly be broken and more in WvW; if anything wvw stats allow for certain builds to actually become viable and change the status quo a little.

These certain builds are often times most problematic althoug not frequently found. Not everyone wants to go the extra mile for specific stat combinations. Especially stats combining healpower and dmg can get out of hand (from my experience) and lead to builds that have way too much sustain with acceptable dmg.(Because they are rather niche they only get hit by nerfs indirectly as well.)

Also mind that PvP has various unique changes to cooldowns boonduration etc.Its not just the stats and the removal of RNG in the weapons dmg.

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@Alabastrum.9361 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:Stats themselves do little to the overall balance, something broken in PvP will most certainly be broken and more in WvW; if anything wvw stats allow for certain builds to actually become viable and change the status quo a little.

These certain builds are often times most problematic althoug not frequently found. Not everyone wants to go the extra mile for specific stat combinations. Especially stats combining healpower and dmg can get out of hand (from my experience) and lead to builds that have way too much sustain with acceptable dmg.(Because they are rather niche they only get hit by nerfs indirectly as well.)

Also mind that PvP has various unique changes to cooldowns boonduration etc.Its not just the stats and the removal of RNG in the weapons dmg.

You forget that the Feb patch completely destroyed healing coefficients/base number on many classes that normally rely on them ...while the dmg has mostly stayed the same (roughly).

These days a mere 500 healing has the same value as 0 healing and 1000+ healing barely reach the same value of pre-Feb gameplay but by investing in 1000+ healing you reduce that meager offensive power even more now.

If you're talking about roaming then...make no mistakes the most successful and hard to kill specs have 0 healing power and rely on easier to get boon for sustain, those professions that can be played this way are already strong in PvP so no change here as I have said.

The super roaming specs are the same : revenant - thief -engineer and necro ( less likely to be on its own ) while the rest rely "more" on personal skill level and will see less representation

Yes we can have : settler and trailblazer stats but...without the actual dmg output ( which is universal for each class ) those stats will do little for you in the end of the day, you get to live longer no doubt but..to what end? As far as I can see what is meta/viable in PvP continues to be so in WvW...what's trash in PvP...it's still trash in WvW, you just get to live longer..but so will other specs that were already strong to start with

Ex. after the Feb patch nerf, Fire weaver became trash....even if you use trailblazer/settler stats in WvW..you're still trash in the end when facing anything but a potato player, all because they more than halved the burning output , removed stability from stance and tripled CD on stunbreaks...so a dead spec forced at melee range with lackluster gap closers

Condi rev is a major pain/OP in PvP and meta...in wvw we have trailblazer Condi rev which is OP/Broken and meta....see?

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You know what I belive what you said about healpower.

But your statement that in WvW every balance is at a similar or worse state than PvP clearly points out that PvP is a more balanced mode than WvW.Which is exactly what FrownyClown and myself have been saying.

Noone would argue that any of the modes is balanced. But PvP is just less unbalanced compared to WvW if you will (especially when focusing on 1v1 or very smallsale).

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@Alabastrum.9361 said:You know what I belive what you said about healpower.

But your statement that in WvW every balance is at a similar or worse state than PvP clearly points out that PvP is a more balanced mode than WvW.Which is exactly what FrownyClown and myself have been saying.

Noone would argue that any of the modes is balanced. But PvP is just less unbalanced compared to WvW if you will (especially when focusing on 1v1 or very smallsale).

What @FrownyClown.8402 said is correct in part, stats do influence balance in WvW but what I have tried to say is that what is UP in PvP won't become OP in WvW and viceversa , regardless of that stats applied the status quo doesn't change much in my opinion at least

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I will try to summarize,

A)What happened is with each new add-on they added new elite specs which is in itself not a problem what the problem is each of them tried to a be a reason to buy the new add-on = power creep not necessaries damage but just everything.What also happened with it they made the gamer faster which result in the told skill spamming.The way they did is by nerfing cast classes and weapons(e.g tempest, ele staff) and pushed hack&slay builds(e.g Mirage build condi spam, DH) with a underlying game which was never intended for this.

There are also some design flaws since the beginning which causes increasing problems.

B)1.) Absolute Defense : So far I know every core class has one of them somewhere a skill which made you invulnerable for a short period of time not to mix up with skills like Arcane Shield or Aegis which blocks only a limited amount of attacks.

The counter for this where that each class has 1 not blockable skill but they removed a lot of them because those skill go also through Arcane Shield or Aegis which would make them useless. Basically this what people see when they shouting bunker builds.

Other games have solved it by giving Absolute Defense skills a stamina bar and not all classes have access to them(only tank classes).

2.)Absolute Stealth: From my knowledge no other game has such a thing you always get informed when a player is near you in one form or another is other games.The way GW 2 intended to counter them was traps which got nerved to the ground

C) The there is the condi fiasco each good build is hated also they went forth and back multiply time with this the reason why they are hated is:1.) if enough players choose to play condi their isn't enough condi clean around and also it feels exactly like power dmg.2.) With condi build there are also comes increases soft cc especially on soft classes which relay on dodges& run this is deadly top offender here is chill in my eyes

D)They made in februar a big patch of PvP and Wvw but no follow up there where also a lot of misconception in this patch and the short follow ups they removed def amulet because they thought this are the reasons for bunker builds in the end they forced they minor rest of them to go to the absolute defense skills.

There where also misconception on that decreasing the dps on builds would lead to slower game play.... No how I shown this isn't the problem it is how you can spam skill because no cast time . What the players did then was switch to beserker builds which result in faster dead now on both sides (outside of Absolute Defense)

E) Because of all the changes their is too much cc in general

F) They also nerfed heal and boons so much in the ground with februar that tempest is the only viable build on metabatle ( yes you can still play other / old builds but they have less and are only effective in complete pre groups). Tempest will propely nerfed in the next patch without buffs on the other side = faster game play again.

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@Beezl.4180 said:

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Wait so someone either dodged or used an ability to block your pew pew burst....so ranger needs a buff cos of that?

This has to be the most kitten thing I have ever read on this forum so far you beat one of the dudes above, I clearly stated that people are soaking in dmg and regardless if they are a tank or a dmg dealer and you go to say that ? No wonder certain mmo communities get mocked and trolled, I am not sure what kind of trolling you attempted to acheive here but time to get them books back and re read on how its done big boi 3000. Read habibti good advice in life so you dont look stubid

Here's an advise, take another few months/years off and then come back and you might actually get "god of pvp" title on first try. (no need to re-learn class or anything)Besides, wvW has many ranger builds viable for roaming.Most just sit on walls and pew pew all day but when you find them in an open field, you can see how bad they are.Sadly it sound like you are one of those that fall in this category.

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Sorry bud, but you're just on the rough end of a steep learning curve by returning to the game for so long. If you play for longer, you'll get a better understanding of how things have shifted and realize that there are no invincible targets or impossible to stop damage. There's counter play out there and not all classes/builds will have the counterplay available to gain the upper hand in all situations.

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@Beezl.4180 said:

@Beezl.4180 said:Hi,

Please do not take this to heart and try to understand where I am coming from. For context: I use to play this game back in the day of release and all I did back then was spvp and from time to time wvw and man was that a blast and not once did I get triggered or felt like I am playing somehting that is kitten in the "meta" hence there was no such thing as meta back then, if you know you know.

I have recently returned to the game and boy oh boy am I so disappointed at what has happened to the pvp system, so the new class looks cool and the new specs was the main reason I thought HMMMM lets go back to my good old friend gw2 and then I do that and what a mystake that was. I come back to try out the new ranger elite specs just to find out that im getting eaten left and rigth by classes I could easily topple back in 2015 regardless melee or ranged. Now its full of broken classes that have infinite heals and infinite toughness and they can tank and at the same time burst and do all kinds of kitten that is just beyond me. How in the logic of all this have Anet thought HMMMM a tank class should be able to also burst targets down ?!?!!? Since when in mmos do tanks deal dmg ? I can not contest a single class and trust me I know how to play my class really I use to play with top 50 in spvp and some really good players in wvw that wouldnt take you if you werent anything but good. Regardless I am not here to boast and say "I AM THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR I AM THE BEAST OF ALL BEASTS" no absolutely not I can accept defeat here and there but to get 1 shot and 2 comboed left and right by classes that could never do that before is rediculous in my opinion. The game needs a massive fix and this is not the right way forward, you can not force people to play other classes just because its "meta" gw2 was never about meta sorry not sorry it was always about pvping and pveing with whatever class you pleased to play, thats what made me fall in love with gw2 that I can play what i like and no one can counter me cause I can counter them it was always equal. Imagine it was so good back then that even necros werent a contest.

Long story short please do not hate on me but try to understand where I am coming from I do not mean to sound too mean or ignorant but if you were a player from the time I played and if you were a pvper I am 100% you can relate and understand what point I am trying to make, I am generally disappointed and money gone to the wind for the expansions cause the pvp is just plain dead, they might aswell remove it and make gw2 like FFXIV a pve game it would suit it better back then we used skill to pvp now people spam skills and think "im good at gw2" you aint mate.

Yours truly,Beezl

Can relate to you 100%. Similar story here. Played PvP/WvW small scale/roaming since launch almost. Took it seriously and very competitively. Also don't want to brag but our PvP and WvW skill would really be in ranks of Top players today. And our team saw it quite early how it's starting to go downhill. It was around mid days of HoT expansion but we still carried on. Made bunch of suggestions/feedback on balance what can be done to save it and not completely deteriorate PvP. So even back then in HoT days we saw nothin is being done no one cares and felt like our days are limited. Fastforward to like LW3 and pre-PoF days.. like 90% of our team quitted. We knew it's gonna happen but it was sad seeing all that process of PvP dying and still trying to be hopeful. Some people might think "omg but in HoT / pre-PoF days it was amazing pvp was healthy". Yea... nope. There were tons of issues but the main issue is just not being able to deal with new elite specs. Nerf that buff that. Then redo it. Then repeat the nerf/buff nonsence all over again. They just didnt know what to do. At this point i think it would've been even better if there were no elite specs or some vanilla version of this game. Anet weren't able to balance elite specs at all. And of course cherry on TOP was PoF elite specs. Anyway.. by that time most of us quitted the game and some of us carried on and switched to PvE. Never have i thought that i'll be "forced" to become a PvE player.. but there it is. Since PvE was never somethin i was interested in you can imagine how motivated i am to play this game. So i guess u r right. It's dead and beyond fixing. Might as well just remove PvP mode and advertise your game as a PvE only and strict-to-meta game. And WvW? Oh well.. u can leave that only for zergs. They just stack tons of FBs/Revs/Scourges these days and run around map "skillfully".

In short - u either are interested in PvE and stay away from PvP. Or carry on and find other games. U can always come back here and check balance patches if something impactful was done. Mostly those balance patches just cheer me up and i log out for another half a year.

At least one more person that has put themselves in my shoes and knows exactly what I speak of, many dont even know that back then you can burst anyone with any class. I barely saw a single ranger in wvw to me that said alot. I am trying hard to think of reasons to play even thought of re rolling to go to a meta class that might help me dominate in wvw so far nothing motivates me.

This community really has alot of ... how to put it without being offensive.. people that ignore the problems and no matter what are on anets side. So it might look to you like you're fighting 1v100 in forums and it's you who is at fault. Don't be mistaken. You're not. Those are just people who ignore problems for whatever reason or haven't played long enough to see the reality.. but players who really understand alot about PvP/WvW and played long enough don't try to sugarcoat how things really are. And they don't even visit forums too much anyway. So yes.. there are plenty of us who aren't afraid to speak the harsh truth (or atleast there wasnt some years back). These days tho.. just forget it. Most of such players quitted or are just doing dailies and logging out. If you really want to play considering the state the game is in.. just be a FoM player (Flavor of the month). Roll whatever class that is OP and exploit the unbalanced system(i suggest FB or Holo). It happens in every MMO that's broken. People exploit the game and it's system. Basically a trolling mode. Or pick a class that you love and be a PvE player. Cuz in PvE almost anything works. Wait. Now that i think about it.. even in PvE we're slowly starting to see inbalance creep in. If you're interested in Raids let's say then also be careful and pick a class that's OP (fb / druid / chrono i suppose).

Anyways.. i clearly remember how they advertised their game. "Pick any class. Play any style you want. Build variety yada yada..". It was surely true back then. Nowadays.. forget about it. Pick OP class -> exploit it to your benefit if you're still inclined to play.

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@Beezl.4180 said:

@Beezl.4180 said:Only way to resolve this is to actually buff up rangers otherwise it is plain boring and tedious to roam with a ranger, your pet is not so effective, every other class with the new specs has 300 engages and can always get to your kitten. If there is to be a fix the burst of ranger has to be buffed so that no one can get to you when you are starting the burst. Plus using smokescale in beastmode is useless everyone knows what you are about to do after you charge at them, compared to other classes its not so predictable.

Yeah....the class has been nerfed several times since you left, druid especially has seen nothing but
nerfs for 1.5 years straight
, they touched everything including staff and heal coefficients; Soulbeast can now only work with one pet at time so..you need to work accordingly and Core ranger not surprisingly still stands to this day.

About the pets....
all "but the never used since launch" Moas and Devourers have been nerfed several times
, some like smokescale do a fraction of the original dmg, while the most offensive glassy pets barely break the 1.4k dmg barrier on a tanky enemy; now mind you there is still
Jacaranda and Gazelle
that can deal good dmg still and I expect it to be "rectified" in the not far future.....just because some "trashbot" manages to get killed by a Jacaranda lightnings ...yeah..I know.

If you were thinking of playing again some sort of "beastmaster"..yeah sorry it's gone but overall the class is still fun and enjoyable to play, the weapon skills are solid, they do what they're supposed to do; the core trait lines are pretty "stable" with..."decent" traits and the utilities are not top notch but not bad either.

With a few hundred hours practice you should be able to enjoy the class again, all three elite choices ( core-druid-soulbeast) work in my opinion from PvE to WvW and with that said.....shall I be honest with you?

You coming back is not worth your time, things will get worst before getting better ( assuming they'll ever will);
yeah GW2 still occupies the Top spots when it comes to art and game engine
...everything else though....you'll find better elsewhere

You are right, I have experienced the lack of dmg on ranger and I am beyond disappointed that a "sniper" type class literally does no dmg, in my opinion rangers should be able to melt the same way dead eyes do and the way other classes do. I could literally meld with my pet do sicem on a target with zephyr quickness and strenght of the pack and do kitten dmg and the enemy hasnt even used any defensive skills cause they dont see me coming at them and i barely do half of their hp in dmg ... Now that is pathetic in my opinion. I actually dont see the point in them nerfing this class and making otherclasses superior literally, people in wvw just get to feel good about themselves when they play vs a ranger only cause it lacks dmg, if the dmg was how it use to be they wouldnt dare to duel rangers. Back then i can literally auto attack a person to death or fear them away cause it would do that much damage but its only logical at the end of the day you are a ranged class not a melee so you should be able to snipe off people just the same way that a melee should be able to eat you up if they are close in your face. But here is where the issue comes now every new spec and class has some sort of projectile deflection or block ... How is that even fair in any way ? I am not too sure what Anet were thinking with this but the ranger class has become one big 0, yes you are right about one thing its a fun class and it can be enjoyed but probably in pve but not in pvp. Its not fun outplaying people and then dishing out 0 dmg just for them to get back up and kill you in 1 combo, if thats how anet wants to deal with their balance then no point in even playing the game. Even with my abscence of 5 years and going against players who have played for prolly forever and outplaying them like its nothing should speak alot about the skill back then and the skill cap now. I met so many opponents and some good but most just skill spam fests that I was literally just kiting around and giving them a hard time but thats all I did cuase every time I unleashed a combo they survived it like its nothing so it felt pointless to pvp in the first place. Also the pet dmg dear lord the pets do 0 dmg ... literally no dmg at all its all changed for the worse and I am truly disappointed that I bought the expansions thinking that maybe the game has gone in an even better direction, but Im starting to feel like my fav class just wont be buffed in any way. I barely even see soulbeasts or any other rangers roaming solo literally so that by itself speaks alot. Thank you for your explanation and thank you for putting yourself in my shoes.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/116269/soulbeast-highlights-of-me-stealing-kills-in-plat-2#latest

It's almost like missing out on 5+ years of updates and practice, and not know what anything does any more, will make everyone else seem overpowered?

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@Beezl.4180 said:

@Beezl.4180 said:Hi,

Please do not take this to heart and try to understand where I am coming from. For context: I use to play this game back in the day of release and all I did back then was spvp and from time to time wvw and man was that a blast and not once did I get triggered or felt like I am playing somehting that is kitten in the "meta" hence there was no such thing as meta back then, if you know you know.

I have recently returned to the game and boy oh boy am I so disappointed at what has happened to the pvp system, so the new class looks cool and the new specs was the main reason I thought HMMMM lets go back to my good old friend gw2 and then I do that and what a mystake that was. I come back to try out the new ranger elite specs just to find out that im getting eaten left and rigth by classes I could easily topple back in 2015 regardless melee or ranged. Now its full of broken classes that have infinite heals and infinite toughness and they can tank and at the same time burst and do all kinds of kitten that is just beyond me. How in the logic of all this have Anet thought HMMMM a tank class should be able to also burst targets down ?!?!!? Since when in mmos do tanks deal dmg ? I can not contest a single class and trust me I know how to play my class really I use to play with top 50 in spvp and some really good players in wvw that wouldnt take you if you werent anything but good. Regardless I am not here to boast and say "I AM THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR I AM THE BEAST OF ALL BEASTS" no absolutely not I can accept defeat here and there but to get 1 shot and 2 comboed left and right by classes that could never do that before is rediculous in my opinion. The game needs a massive fix and this is not the right way forward, you can not force people to play other classes just because its "meta" gw2 was never about meta sorry not sorry it was always about pvping and pveing with whatever class you pleased to play, thats what made me fall in love with gw2 that I can play what i like and no one can counter me cause I can counter them it was always equal. Imagine it was so good back then that even necros werent a contest.

Long story short please do not hate on me but try to understand where I am coming from I do not mean to sound too mean or ignorant but if you were a player from the time I played and if you were a pvper I am 100% you can relate and understand what point I am trying to make, I am generally disappointed and money gone to the wind for the expansions cause the pvp is just plain dead, they might aswell remove it and make gw2 like FFXIV a pve game it would suit it better back then we used skill to pvp now people spam skills and think "im good at gw2" you aint mate.

Yours truly,Beezl

Can relate to you 100%. Similar story here. Played PvP/WvW small scale/roaming since launch almost. Took it seriously and very competitively. Also don't want to brag but our PvP and WvW skill would really be in ranks of Top players today. And our team saw it quite early how it's starting to go downhill. It was around mid days of HoT expansion but we still carried on. Made bunch of suggestions/feedback on balance what can be done to save it and not completely deteriorate PvP. So even back then in HoT days we saw nothin is being done no one cares and felt like our days are limited. Fastforward to like LW3 and pre-PoF days.. like 90% of our team quitted. We knew it's gonna happen but it was sad seeing all that process of PvP dying and still trying to be hopeful. Some people might think "omg but in HoT / pre-PoF days it was amazing pvp was healthy". Yea... nope. There were tons of issues but the main issue is just not being able to deal with new elite specs. Nerf that buff that. Then redo it. Then repeat the nerf/buff nonsence all over again. They just didnt know what to do. At this point i think it would've been even better if there were no elite specs or some vanilla version of this game. Anet weren't able to balance elite specs at all. And of course cherry on TOP was PoF elite specs. Anyway.. by that time most of us quitted the game and some of us carried on and switched to PvE. Never have i thought that i'll be "forced" to become a PvE player.. but there it is. Since PvE was never somethin i was interested in you can imagine how motivated i am to play this game. So i guess u r right. It's dead and beyond fixing. Might as well just remove PvP mode and advertise your game as a PvE only and strict-to-meta game. And WvW? Oh well.. u can leave that only for zergs. They just stack tons of FBs/Revs/Scourges these days and run around map "skillfully".

In short - u either are interested in PvE and stay away from PvP. Or carry on and find other games. U can always come back here and check balance patches if something impactful was done. Mostly those balance patches just cheer me up and i log out for another half a year.

At least one more person that has put themselves in my shoes and knows exactly what I speak of, many dont even know that back then you can burst anyone with any class. I barely saw a single ranger in wvw to me that said alot. I am trying hard to think of reasons to play even thought of re rolling to go to a meta class that might help me dominate in wvw so far nothing motivates me.

Man to be honest aside from a few outliers all classes have been gutted over time and just feel bad to play, rangers just one of them. Go play a warrior on a power melee build and see how much of a melee power house THEE melee spec of the game makes u feel, hell the most viable build on warrior is a support heal build ffs lmao. Mirage has to rely on one shot outa stealth, reset and repeat cuz it has nothing left. Try playing the rogue burst class like any other rogue burst class and watch the tanks in this game out burst u, but ull always be bis for decap and +1'ing cuz one skill on one weapon (sb5) and that's ok to the community cuz most dislike thief. Fb was great at everything but instead of just toning its dps down and leaving it decent support in just got nerfed to be mediocre at everthing(pvp speaking). Druid same as fb but happened way sooner. I could go on but point is there's having mediocre balance but the devs are still frequently trying and then there's gw2 where theres atrocious balancing that not only is way to infrequent but also when its done it's done in the most minimalistic ways as well as being consistently way off the mark. The biggest joke is the balance team can only change numbers and any mechanic or design changes can only be done be a team of which has proven over the last few yrs refuses to work on or make any adjustments unless their regarding lws or expacs, games dumpstering itself pretty fast. Hopefully shadowlands is decent.PS ghosts legends and new game+ releases today :).

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