[ZERG] Guardian or Revenant?

[KeoLegend.5132]

Recently i've been trying out WvW and im having a blast. I'm still using my PvE gear (Berserker and Viper) and tried out 3 types of play:

1. Burn Guardian
2. Power Symbol Guardian
3. Hammer Herald Backline

Before investing on a proper WvW, i would like to know which class to choose, here's what i want

1. Mainly zergs, staying in backline but sometimes being able to flank and bomb
2. Being able to roam a bit and take a camp by myself
3. Not being useless when caught outside the zerg by roamer.

Which one should i pick?

[Infusion.7149]

In a squad environment you want to run your guardian as a support firebrand. Therefore if you plan on running damage you are best staying with herald.

A Viper guardian is highly susceptible to any form of spike that has boon rip. Because critical hits are not required for the burning proc on the virtue of justice ability, most burn guardians are running dire (with Balthazar rune) or some sort of Trailblazer. That said, unless you have cover conditions from scourges or condi revs (torment) burn guardian isn't strong at all in a group scenario as you'll be outcleansed by opposing supports such as scrappers, tempests, firebrands and to a lesser extent scourges / support spellbreakers.

[Justine.6351]

Burn dh.

In smallscale people don't know what cleansing is and in zerging it's just death by a thousand cuts anyhow. In medium skirmishing burn dh melts piles of noobs standing on siege, hilarious times. Being able to cast from behind a 5 second block siege is broken easy gameplay. Going invulnerable behind a reflect wall with a zerg spamming all their projectiles, even more hilarious.

Burn dh is the last bastion of big damage before anet nerfs that into the ground too. Might as well enjoy it before it's gone.

[Strider.7849]

@KeoLegend.5132 said:Recently i've been trying out WvW and im having a blast. I'm still using my PvE gear (Berserker and Viper) and tried out 3 types of play:

1. Burn Guardian
2. Power Symbol Guardian
3. Hammer Herald Backline

Before investing on a proper WvW, i would like to know which class to choose, here's what i want

1. Mainly zergs, staying in backline but sometimes being able to flank and bomb
2. Being able to roam a bit and take a camp by myself
3. Not being useless when caught outside the zerg by roamer.

Which one should i pick?

Both classes are vital to zergs, revenant has a better option for backline but its effectiveness and impact isn't as much as guardian with that hammer revenant. Guardian's supportive builds are front line, they do have core/FB condi builds that are more midline though.

Both classes can roam and take camps on their own. Guardian will be easier to pick up and complete that with (has both DH and core meditation builds for roaming) but revenant has more potential when played at a very high skill ceiling. Both won't be useless when caught outside by a roamer depending on the role you choose. If revenant backline with hammer, the roamer will kill you, if running a supportive guardian you pretty much just use tools to survive til you can get to safety which isn't that hard.

Conclusion: I know this probably confused you more since they both are strong choices. Both classes are needed and necessary for zergs, small group roaming guardian has a larger impact, solo roaming I give an edge to revenant.

[subversiontwo.7501]

RoleThe upside of the Guardian on damage builds is that it retains the option to spec support on the side and let your group adapt the balance between support and damage when maps are full and people can't swap classes. The damage builds on Guardian are definately passable.

The power Revenant is still regarded as the main backline damage class/build on most servers that I am comming across. If you only want to play backline damage in larger squads the Revenant is probably both forgiving to get into and has a broader envelope when playing the role.

Off roleSomething similar can be said about smaller scale or roaming if you want to do that on the side. Both classes have working builds. Both classes have strong builds. The Revenant probably has better options around the skill-floor as you are learning to play whatever role. That doesn't mean that the Guardian doesn't have good roaming builds but that it's going to take you a longer time to get to a level that feels rewarding.

Off role matchupsThe Guardian doesn't have anything that is as powerful and simple as condi Rev to get into and even on glassy power a Revenant is easier to start out on with all its mobility (1) etc., then the Guardian is going to make a comeback once you have the basics down where things like gimmick trapper builds and different medi builds can stomp alot of opponents that aren't used to them (2), then it's likely to swing back to Rev again when breaking out of rotational play and fighting players who have the builds and ability to cover their bases, but now you've pushed into a level where you are more committed to solo roaming and duelling (3) and once you make it up toward the higher levels of experience there (4) I have it on good authority that Guardians are doing really well right now, contrary to what Strider said above, but I wouldn't say I have experience of that myself. I would be personally inclined to agree with Strider but I trust my friends who engage more in that type of gameplay enough to take their word for it. Little of that matters of course due to the state of stealth- or mobility balance and that so many of these classes opt to play their small-scale content in small gangs now because of it. Once you do your roaming and flipping with a friend or two more of the other roles come into play (support, hybrids, adapt party synergies) where viability trumph matchup.

Full scopeThis leaves Revenant as broader/more flexible if you limit yourself to specific things and when you are learning those things whereas Guardian is a broader or more flexible class in the long run (taking a full-mode perspective or even a full-game perspective) as you will sort of unlock more and more things you can do with it as you learn them but that flexibility lies in branching out of just backline play and more casual solo havoc/roaming on one or two sets of gear to a much larger degree. The Revenant can go out of that pocket too but that is where you will see more limitations while the Guardian starts to shine.

ProgressionPerhaps begin with a Revenant and level up a Guardian later? You can make a power-damage gear first, a tankier roaming gear second (condi or whatever you are interested in) and then look to branch out into support and hybrid gears over a longer stretch of time. If you get bored on your Rev you can always use your Rev gear on your Guard for certain things.

[Strider.7849]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:RoleThe upside of the Guardian on damage builds is that it retains the option to spec support on the side and let your group adapt the balance between support and damage when maps are full and people can't swap classes. The damage builds on Guardian are definately passable.

The power Revenant is still regarded as the main backline damage class/build on most servers that I am comming across. If you only want to play backline damage in larger squads the Revenant is probably both forgiving to get into and has a broader envelope when playing the role.

Off roleSomething similar can be said about smaller scale or roaming if you want to do that on the side. Both classes have working builds. Both classes have strong builds. The Revenant probably has better options around the skill-floor as you are learning to play whatever role. That doesn't mean that the Guardian doesn't have good roaming builds but that it's going to take you a longer time to get to a level that feels rewarding.

Off role matchupsThe Guardian doesn't have anything that is as powerful and simple as condi Rev to get into and even on glassy power a Revenant is easier to start out on with all its mobility (1) etc., then the Guardian is going to make a comeback once you have the basics down where things like gimmick trapper builds and different medi builds can stomp alot of opponents that aren't used to them (2), then it's likely to swing back to Rev again when breaking out of rotational play and fighting players who have the builds and ability to cover their bases, but now you've pushed into a level where you are more committed to solo roaming and duelling (3) and once you make it up toward the higher levels of experience there (4) I have it on good authority that Guardians are doing really well right now, contrary to what Strider said above, but I wouldn't say I have experience of that myself. I would be personally inclined to agree with Strider but I trust my friends who engage more in that type of gameplay enough to take their word for it. Little of that matters of course due to the state of stealth- or mobility balance and that so many of these classes opt to play their small-scale content in small gangs now because of it. Once you do your roaming and flipping with a friend or two more of the other roles come into play (support, hybrids, adapt party synergies) where viability trumph matchup.

Full scopeThis leaves Revenant as broader/more flexible if you limit yourself to specific things and when you are learning those things whereas Guardian is a broader or more flexible class in the long run (taking a full-mode perspective or even a full-game perspective) as you will sort of unlock more and more things you can do with it as you learn them but that flexibility lies in branching out of just backline play and more casual solo havoc/roaming on one or two sets of gear to a much larger degree. The Revenant can go out of that pocket too but that is where you will see more limitations while the Guardian starts to shine.

ProgressionPerhaps begin with a Revenant and level up a Guardian later? You can make a power-damage gear first, a tankier roaming gear second (condi or whatever you are interested in) and then look to branch out into support and hybrid gears over a longer stretch of time. If you get bored on your Rev you can always use your Rev gear on your Guard for certain things.

I read through your post and I'm curious as to what part of what I said you disagree with? Just asking, I'm sure everyone's opinions will differ. Is it that I feel revenant has stronger potential than guardian for solo roaming or that guardian is better for group/small group play?

Just also to clarify when you mentioned that you have it on good authority that guardian's are doing well right now, I did mention both options are strong choices, I just added which have more potential within each role - zerg, smallscale, solo.

Reason I'm asking is I'd like to understand reasoning behind a differing viewpoint - maybe learn something I didn't know along the way.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Strider.7849 said:I read through your post and I'm curious as to what part of what I said you disagree with? Just asking, I'm sure everyone's opinions will differ. Is it that I feel revenant has stronger potential than guardian for solo roaming or that guardian is better for group/small group play?

Just also to clarify when you mentioned that you have it on good authority that guardian's are doing well right now, I did mention both options are strong choices, I just added which have more potential within each role - zerg, smallscale, solo.

Reason I'm asking is I'd like to understand reasoning behind a differing viewpoint - maybe learn something I didn't know along the way.It got pretty lengthy there in that segment so I can understand that it was hard to follow.

I've been told that Guardians are currently stronger than Revs at expert levels of solo/duo roaming or what's more slanted towards duelling rather than roaming. I don't really play in that environment myself so it's anecdotal and my own impression is rather aligned with yours. However, I trust what I've been told more than my own impression in this regard :) .

Some musing on context beyond that:

The only reason I included it in that paragraph was to provide some examples of how what class outperforms the other have quite alot to do with progression from floor to roof and what environment you engage in. It is clear that the OP is not looking to dedicate into those environments anyway and I also tacked on the point about small-scale being more and more group-oriented lately for balance reasons as well because that too is an important factor when weighing in what Revs and Guardians can or can not do at smaller scale. It's both a depth and breadth question so to speak and that the classes will trade places as you progress through it. In fact, you opened up that discussion and I found it interesting so I wanted to expand on it a bit, that's mostly why.

It's still a valuable perspective to help orient oneself between the classes though. If the OP goes to flip camps as either class the OP will surely run into players on either of those classes from among that kind of tiering and that may give the OP different impressions that are more or less accurate. Something that is becomming more and more common in the game and on these forums is that people have quite wildly different impressions of what is better or worse (or overpowered) based on what sort of experience level they have and that is often amiss in the discussion. It's seldom aknowledged that there are quite alot of builds out there that are very punishing against inexperienced players and that is another dimension of balancing than just straight matchups. Expert knowledge is getting rare and that often causes balance discussions to drift from what is possible to what people's impressions are to a higher degree.

[KeoLegend.5132]

Nice to see such deep comments