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World Linking 9/25/2020


Cal Cohen.2358

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At least based on this weekend T5 EU isn't that dead.

Over 70+ players transferred within the past 9 months while people can leave freely to stack on most other host and link servers, even our links never were stacked as they used to be like last year or as recently as April. Deso is at least quarantined, from being Perma T1.

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I see Arenanets Censorship is going on again so. Arenanet still doesnt like it being criticized? I guess some things will never Change hahaSo, as this gonna be deleted anyways, WHY IS GANDARA FULL? WHAT MONKEY DID THAT RELINKS? or was it a Dolphin? No human being would reach such a high level of stupidity then that Genius that programmed the system which decides if a Server is Full or not.. and the Linking. Maybe both done by the same Genius?

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I'll try to be nice this time.Gandara basically has max 50 ppl online at all, during the whole day. We barely get 30 People on Commander during Primetime, yet we get no Link and are stated as FULL:I wanna wake you Up from that Illusion, GANDARA IS NOT FULL, we are a nearly empty server (based on WvWvW Activivty). As a Commander, I find it depressing how Arenanet solves Problems. Wait, they dont solve them, they make even more of them.

Please do us all a Favor and start doing a good Job. Gandara is not Full, Desolation is not Full. Who in this beloved World got the idea of Linking National and International Servers? You really need to visit a therapist.Well, couldnt be more nice, since Anet is only giving us shit. WvWvW Once was a competitive mode, now its just garbage. Thank you very much arenanet.

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@DaveTheKid.5293 said:I'll try to be nice this time.Gandara basically has max 50 ppl online at all, during the whole day. We barely get 30 People on Commander during Primetime, yet we get no Link and are stated as FULL:I wanna wake you Up from that Illusion, GANDARA IS NOT FULL, we are a nearly empty server (based on WvWvW Activivty). As a Commander, I find it depressing how Arenanet solves Problems. Wait, they dont solve them, they make even more of them.

Please do us all a Favor and start doing a good Job. Gandara is not Full, Desolation is not Full. Who in this beloved World got the idea of Linking National and International Servers? You really need to visit a therapist.Well, couldnt be more nice, since Anet is only giving us kitten. WvWvW Once was a competitive mode, now its just garbage. Thank you very much arenanet.

And BB that is actually the highest populated of all is just very high like always :D

Perhaps in the future if you make servers unlinked change the status to very high for the remainder of the matchup untill relink, in that case we could get some players perhaps...

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@DaveTheKid.5293 said:Please do us all a Favor and start doing a good Job. Gandara is not Full, Desolation is not Full. Who in this beloved World got the idea of Linking National and International Servers? You really need to visit a therapist.Well, couldnt be more nice, since Anet is only giving us kitten. WvWvW Once was a competitive mode, now its just garbage. Thank you very much arenanet.

I believe this whole linking of national with international servers is to force people into transferring to make money.

Another example of an absolutely horrid gameplay experience is ROF with Ft. Ranik. Both medium aka empty, with barely 15 people forming a squad during prime time; hopelessly outnumbered and bullied into their corner with Deso and Jade Sea targeting them.

The ones who suffer the most from this are new players who have expressed their concerns both in game and on our Discord—it’s your potential customers you’re alienating ANet, well done.

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I love the fact YB is a very very weak server on it's own (we do okay as a link server but that's it) then we get pushed to a core server with kaineng as a link and like 50%+ of their wvw guilds transfer off and everyone seems fine with that. Feels bad that the only real fight is which other server gets to punish us more. Just, yea you guys gotta work on your linking cause being thousands of points down every single day feels terrible and is not fun gameplay.

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@"DaveTheKid.5293" said:I'll try to be nice this time.Gandara basically has max 50 ppl online at all, during the whole day. We barely get 30 People on Commander during Primetime, yet we get no Link and are stated as FULL:I wanna wake you Up from that Illusion, GANDARA IS NOT FULL, we are a nearly empty server (based on WvWvW Activivty). As a Commander, I find it depressing how Arenanet solves Problems. Wait, they dont solve them, they make even more of them.

Please do us all a Favor and start doing a good Job. Gandara is not Full, Desolation is not Full. Who in this beloved World got the idea of Linking National and International Servers? You really need to visit a therapist.Well, couldnt be more nice, since Anet is only giving us kitten. WvWvW Once was a competitive mode, now its just garbage. Thank you very much arenanet.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the premise of your feelings Dave, we all know that the system isn't good, but haven't you followed the discussion on your own server one bit?

For all we know (based on the posts about the linking system from when it was released) the system employs some sort of algorithm where hours played is an important factor but isn't an aggregate. It's likely something as simple as spending time and/or tripping objectives above a threshhold flagging you as WvW population for that server. It may be as low as 1hr/w which wouldn't make you "active" in most people's eyes but could be that in the system.

Something like that would be very punishing for your server as it both has a rather old, casual and splintering community to begin with but also used to be an old PvX hub from before the Megaserver and Linking systems were made. That would also explain why it almost always surfs very high, often gets pushed into full and always seems to get pushed very deep into full anytime ArenaNet does something to encourage PvE players to try WvW as alot of players who are usually below the threshold and play on the Megaservers will flag for your server in WvW (as they were tied to it 2014) when there are events or sales.

So the system is bad, it is most likely generally unfair towards your server or any other pre-Megaserver PvX hub or old casual but solid community (the kind of community that is ideal in the rest of this game but not in WvW for server lock purposes) and your server is also so disorganized that it feels much smaller than it actually is. All of those issues can exist at the same time. There is only one thing you can do something about. There is only one thing that ArenaNet are looking to do something about, hopefully before more communities die. If you should spend your time and energy on criticizing them, it is probably best spent on demanding delivery on the things that are in the pipeline.

Simply claiming that your server isn't full when it very likely is full (based on how the system calculates) is less productive than ~Allianceswhen. If you want a different system then Alliances are a different system and some work has been put into it. There's no point in spending effort on the server system itself.

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@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@DaveTheKid.5293 said:I'll try to be nice this time.Gandara basically has max 50 ppl online at all, during the whole day. We barely get 30 People on Commander during Primetime, yet we get no Link and are stated as FULL:I wanna wake you Up from that Illusion, GANDARA IS NOT FULL, we are a nearly empty server (based on WvWvW Activivty). As a Commander, I find it depressing how Arenanet solves Problems. Wait, they dont solve them, they make even more of them.

Please do us all a Favor and start doing a good Job. Gandara is not Full, Desolation is not Full. Who in this beloved World got the idea of Linking National and International Servers? You really need to visit a therapist.Well, couldnt be more nice, since Anet is only giving us kitten. WvWvW Once was a competitive mode, now its just garbage. Thank you very much arenanet.

~ snip~

Simply claiming that your server isn't full when it very likely
is
full (based on how the system calculates) is less productive than ~Allianceswhen. If you want a different system then Alliances are a different system and some work has been put into it. There's no point in spending effort on the server system itself.

Its funny reading these comments that think its lot of work to adjust population caps within the algorithm so that servers don't go full with 1 5h+/day active commander. Its literally less than a day to adjust the mishaps within current system (transfer costs, relinking frequency, population status counting separately).

Please, stop whiteknighting a company that isn't doing their job. Yea, alliances might come in 10 years and 1 day but lets be honest, fixing population statuses and transfer costs before the steam release might be just a little bit better than making it come in 10 years instead.

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@Threather.9354 said:

@DaveTheKid.5293 said:I'll try to be nice this time.Gandara basically has max 50 ppl online at all, during the whole day. We barely get 30 People on Commander during Primetime, yet we get no Link and are stated as FULL:I wanna wake you Up from that Illusion, GANDARA IS NOT FULL, we are a nearly empty server (based on WvWvW Activivty). As a Commander, I find it depressing how Arenanet solves Problems. Wait, they dont solve them, they make even more of them.

Please do us all a Favor and start doing a good Job. Gandara is not Full, Desolation is not Full. Who in this beloved World got the idea of Linking National and International Servers? You really need to visit a therapist.Well, couldnt be more nice, since Anet is only giving us kitten. WvWvW Once was a competitive mode, now its just garbage. Thank you very much arenanet.

~ snip~

Simply claiming that your server isn't full when it very likely
is
full (based on how the system calculates) is less productive than ~Allianceswhen. If you want a different system then Alliances are a different system and some work has been put into it. There's no point in spending effort on the server system itself.

Its funny reading these comments that think its lot of work to adjust population caps within the algorithm so that servers don't go full with 1 5h+/day active commander. Its literally less than a day to adjust the mishaps within current system (transfer costs, relinking frequency, population status counting separately).

Please, stop whiteknighting a company that isn't doing their job. Yea, alliances might come in 10 years and 1 day but lets be honest, fixing population statuses and transfer costs before the steam release might be
just a little bit
better than making it come in 10 years instead.

Haha, that sure was an interesting conclusion looking at my post history :3 .

What you're looking for is probably rather the difference between explaining and defending. It's also the difference between just delusional crying and trying to discuss or deliver critique that is rooted in some kind of logic and argumentation (which is at our best as we do not work for Anet and have no insight).

If Anet wanted to open up full servers then, yes, it wouldn't be more difficult for them than to go into a spreadsheet and change something that may say 2500 to 3500. That would open up a bunch of servers and it would allow even more players to stack on the servers that are being stacked with the result of even longer queues for those servers. However, that doesn't really give Gandara or Deso more commanders or content.

In the case of Gandara the answer to why they are full right now is likely the thing I mentioned above: Casual core community that feels smaller than it is + higher than normal degree of PvE tourists compared to other servers, mediated through pandemic, recent event weeks and WvW-skin firesale. Something similar can be said about Deso but it is perhaps less a case of a casual core community and more a question of returning veterans comming in to tourist as Deso used to be one of the most stacked servers in Europe between the end of vanilla and HoT. That is just how the algorithm works.

Changing the cap is one thing, changing the algorithm or anything else that has to do with the server architecture another.

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Wasn't WSR considered "empty" last link phase? (I remember them being pwned in T5 without any players fighting back.) Of course they probably have linked based on that. The problem is that they used delayed/outdated data. They need to open some time period for transfers. Then closing the transfers and calculating population. Then linking based on that.

The actual link is WSR without any active players linkd to some stronger server. (Cause WSR didn't have anyone playing there last link and they saw that it was empty.)

How should they know people are transferring - if people can just transfer after they link? This literally can only work if after the link transfers are closed until the next link happens (shortly before that opening the transfers again).

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MS and AM are headed for T1 as High population servers too, but unlinked servers like Deso and Gandara will probably stay locked for the duration of the server (un)linkings, beCause oF ouR play HourS.

Even the night crew is small and random compared to BB and AM, but at least it keeps us out T5, even though we're often outnumbered during the day and prime time, with or without any PVE event.

Population balance is only a priority, if Alliances even happen anymore, which means no more Tournaments thankfully, cause we've seen this before with higher tier servers and links opening up, according to their algorithm.

So I doubt anything changes soon nevermind Alliances, at least Cyberpunk is out next month and the PS5 and Series X before it.

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@"Luthan.5236" said:Wasn't WSR considered "empty" last link phase? (I remember them being pwned in T5 without any players fighting back.) Of course they probably have linked based on that. The problem is that they used delayed/outdated data. They need to open some time period for transfers. Then closing the transfers and calculating population. Then linking based on that.

The actual link is WSR without any active players linkd to some stronger server. (Cause WSR didn't have anyone playing there last link and they saw that it was empty.)

How should they know people are transferring - if people can just transfer after they link? This literally can only work if after the link transfers are closed until the next link happens (shortly before that opening the transfers again).

I think everyone and their mother saw this coming...

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The system is bad, but we have what we have until alliances come out. People who are getting angry at Anet for player-created problems are missing the mark. WSR and SFR were linked when WSR was empty. FR and RoF were linked when FR was full. Players shift the population after the fact. If you want to say that maybe they should make an exception and do mid-link adjustment of the server, then fine. To complain about the link in the first place when they can only work with the stats they are provided is missing the point though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Do you think Alliances will be out by the next expansion? I doubt it, so the system could do with more adjustments before then, if they are still willing to support this game mode and it's players/worlds.

Personally, I do not think we have the population for Five Tiers in the EU, particularly with mass transfers happening every relink, which leaves other servers struggling in the lower Tiers for the duration of the server (un)linking.

Meanwhile, you even see T1 servers open for more transfers, no matter the coverage and activity they already have. It could mean longer queues for those servers who are already well populated, when they don't want or need it, whether it's new players choosing a world or veterans, it's not good for the game mode.

We are still waiting for that change to Tactivator banners, being only useable around their objectives too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

WSR/SFR was not that bad to fight against ... at the weekend. But now during the week they seem to have tons of players - either they have players from non-european timezones or people that don't go to work (students, etc.) to pla all the day.

Best suggestion would be to have both of these servers without a link in the next phase. If you look at the tiers/rankins ... Desolation and Gandara are marked as "full" but without a link. And in much lower tiers. (Which means they actually would deserve a link more.)

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@"Luthan.5236" said:WSR/SFR was not that bad to fight against ... at the weekend. But now during the week they seem to have tons of players - either they have players from non-european timezones or people that don't go to work (students, etc.) to pla all the day.

Best suggestion would be to have both of these servers without a link in the next phase. If you look at the tiers/rankins ... Desolation and Gandara are marked as "full" but without a link. And in much lower tiers. (Which means they actually would deserve a link more.)

It doesn't matter, full unlinked servers won't go above tier 4 in current system. Its just depressing to play with 60% of players, commanders, scouts and guilds of any servers linked together. You have 1 weak timezone and all enemy stuff will be tier 3 in the current upgrade system, then you have to bash against them while outnumbered.

Its why population should be calculated as total of activity on the linking. Its just weird having 2 full servers in rank 1 winning 90% of skirmishes linked together and 2 "supposedly even bigger servers" unlinked full in depths of lowest tiers regardless of how much they try. Current system just punishes having a fun server that enjoys WvW as it is: 24/7 gamemode with groups of various sizes, Desolation and Gandara were exactly the poster boys of that, not some overstacked linkings relying on double the numbers, roaming around sm with 40 people from noon to 3 am and instant queues as soon as some comm tags up.

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Yeah. It totally seems random ... because they also do not take into account that players transfer. (Transfers have been mentioned often her - I think.) Then the link is based on old date before the transfer ... but it does not make sense to allow transfers permanently if after the start of the link phase everyone can just transfer to some other server.

I have previously known the lowest tier (previous link phase) where it was weird to play against 2 other links that have almost no player online. Huge gap between the 2 lowest and the next stronger one in T5.

Now this seems a similar problem in T1 but with the strongest server there. At least it is less boring - because you still have sometehing to do. T5 as the stronger one ... it was only PvE. T1 as the weakest one ... it feels a bit discouraging. Must have been super bad in the previous week - when my server evaded the WSR/SFR - but they must have punished others hard when moving up from the lower tiers and fighting against even weaker servers there. (Bad starting placement as and additional problem. And them only moving up slowly 1 tier each week.)

It is pretty sad that ArenaNet isn't at least trying to hotfix a bit here. (The middle tiers ... t2, t3 and t4 ... aren okay though.) Then announcing some alliance system and they are probably working on it. But no other fixes until that one gets released. (Probably earlierst with the next expansion.)

Funny how people complain about Baruch Bay then. :D (Some other thread.) When Baruch is pretty normal. (They just have their strong phase at a different time of the day. But not 24/7 zerging and trying to own and defend your keep in EB - like in T1 WSR/SFR can do now. :D )

Weekday vs. weekend is also interesting. T1 didn't feel that imbalanced during weekend - as I explained above. (Must be taken into account when you try to do some calculation on player/activity - not taking 1 (ONE) random day to calculate it. But a full week.)

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@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@DaveTheKid.5293 said:I'll try to be nice this time.Gandara basically has max 50 ppl online at all, during the whole day. We barely get 30 People on Commander during Primetime, yet we get no Link and are stated as FULL:I wanna wake you Up from that Illusion, GANDARA IS NOT FULL, we are a nearly empty server (based on WvWvW Activivty). As a Commander, I find it depressing how Arenanet solves Problems. Wait, they dont solve them, they make even more of them.

Please do us all a Favor and start doing a good Job. Gandara is not Full, Desolation is not Full. Who in this beloved World got the idea of Linking National and International Servers? You really need to visit a therapist.Well, couldnt be more nice, since Anet is only giving us kitten. WvWvW Once was a competitive mode, now its just garbage. Thank you very much arenanet.

~ snip~

Simply claiming that your server isn't full when it very likely
is
full (based on how the system calculates) is less productive than ~Allianceswhen. If you want a different system then Alliances are a different system and some work has been put into it. There's no point in spending effort on the server system itself.

Its funny reading these comments that think its lot of work to adjust population caps within the algorithm so that servers don't go full with 1 5h+/day active commander. Its literally less than a day to adjust the mishaps within current system (transfer costs, relinking frequency, population status counting separately).

Please, stop whiteknighting a company that isn't doing their job. Yea, alliances might come in 10 years and 1 day but lets be honest, fixing population statuses and transfer costs before the steam release might be
just a little bit
better than making it come in 10 years instead.

Haha, that sure was an interesting conclusion looking at my post history :3 .

What you're looking for is probably rather the difference between
explaining
and
defending
. It's also the difference between just
delusional crying
and
trying to discuss
or deliver critique that is rooted in some kind of logic and argumentation (which is at our best as we do not work for Anet and have no insight).

If Anet wanted to open up full servers then, yes, it wouldn't be more difficult for them than to go into a spreadsheet and change something that may say 2500 to 3500. That would open up a bunch of servers and it would allow even more players to stack on the servers that are being stacked with the result of even longer queues for those servers. However, that doesn't really give Gandara or Deso more commanders or content.

In the case of Gandara the answer to why they are full right now is likely the thing I mentioned above: Casual core community that feels smaller than it is + higher than normal degree of PvE tourists compared to other servers, mediated through pandemic, recent event weeks and WvW-skin firesale. Something similar can be said about Deso but it is perhaps less a case of a casual core community and more a question of returning veterans comming in to tourist as Deso used to be one of the most stacked servers in Europe between the end of vanilla and HoT. That is just how the algorithm works.

Changing the cap is one thing, changing the algorithm or anything else that has to do with the server architecture another.

I was just crying since a discussion wont bring anything, same goes for crying, crying is more fun tho.Anet doesnt gives a shit about WvW anyways^^

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