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Should there be a GW 3? - [Merged]


Cyrin.1035

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@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:Please check the forum's search option before posting, topic has been discussed many times in the past.

Just because its discussed 2 years ago, doesn't mean it applies to today, different thinking, other things have arised.Balance has been discussed for years, yet people make new threads about them.

I don't see people telling others who make threads like "Guardian needs a nerf", that its been said many times in the past, search the forums and necro the thread from 6 years ago.

And yet, your thread offers nothing new to the topic or discussion.

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@"uberkingkong.8041" said:GW2 though, its not a full MMORPG yet either, one aspect it is missing, is Open World PvP.Open World PvP is what full MMORPG's like EQ and WoW have. Something GW2 and ESO lacks to become a real full MMORPG.

One of the greatest strengths of the Guild Wars series is that they don't just copy bad ideas from previous MMOGs.

In WvW, I'll gladly jump someone trying to take a camp or insert myself into two other servers fighting, but forcing that dynamic onto the entire game world just means open-world PVE players become a lot more skittish and frustrated, with no actual payoff for anyone involved. Jumping in to help someone who's in over their head is a lot more fun.

There were maybe 20 people in all of WoW who used "open world pvp" to do anything cool, and hundreds called them trolls and cried on the forums because of it. It's a false dream and a mechanical dead end, just like "make players rest for a few minutes to regain mana" or "if you kill people you get 'PK' karma and then we can send you to virtual jail."

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No, there should not be a GW3.Arenanet barely manages to continue developing GW2.

If Arenanet was to suddenly put GW2 into maintenance mode and start working GW3, where would the money come from?Do you think many people would put money into a game that's already set not to get any more updates?

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"uberkingkong.8041" said:GW2 though, its not a full MMORPG yet either, one aspect it is missing, is Open World PvP.Open World PvP is what full MMORPG's like EQ and WoW have. Something GW2 and ESO lacks to become a real full MMORPG.

Oh boy, yet another Open World PvP thread.

I haven't seen one of them for at least 5 minutes, so I guess it was due...GW2 has PvP. There is no need for it to be included in open world content. Not sure how this invalidates GW2 as a "full MMORPG". What, exactly, is the industry definition of that?

Interestingly, the industry definition of "MMORPG" is quite loose.

Since the term literally means "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game" the only requirements are:

1) Be an online game (One that you connect to servers for, as opposed to having to host your own lobbies)2) Be a multiplayer game3) Have a persistent area that many people can co-exist in4) Allow players to use avatars they control to interact with the game (I.e. "Be an RPG" which in of itself is essentially synonymous with "Be a game" given how much you can stretch the term)

GW2 ticks all of the relevant boxes for being an "MMORPG" which even encompasses things like ARPG's such as Path of Exile or the asian style of "Lobby Simulators" like Soulworker, Phantasy Star Online 2 or FFXIV (Yes, it has an open world. But 99.99% of what you do in game ends up being the Duty Finder or a Story quest that puts you into a solo instance). Even shooters like Destiny 2, Global Agenda and Warframe are considered to be "MMORPG's" (Even though these too are "Lobby Simulators")

As such, there's no real requirement for specific gameplay elements for the title to be applied. Since, it's merely a genre of game rather than a description of said games.

Even with all this...

GW2 literally does have Open World PvP. It's called WvW. Which takes place in an Open World and involves Player versus Player combat. Just because it doesn't involve ganking PvErs that have 0 desire to PvP (Anymore at least... Back when WvW was needed for World Completion on the other hand...) doesn't make it any less Open World PvP.

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@Taril.8619 said:

@uberkingkong.8041 said:Should there be a GW3?

Probably. But it's unlikely that ANet have the funds to make a new game.

This is why I don't think GW3 will happen anytime soon. I don't think Anet currently has the resources or the desire to make a new GW3 MMORPG, which is why they have announced another expansion. I don't mind this at all and will be happy if there are only more expansions for GW2 still.

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I believe it's time for a new game engine. One that works more modular and can more easily be upgraded to work with new and upcoming technical innovations. GW2 is getting old and more and more laggy. ANet only set GW1 to maintainance mode once they realized that the current engine would not support their plans and began work on GW2. We're now in a similar situation where the Team is pushing the engine's limits and it shows more and more. The only question is whether ANet has the energy, money and inspiration for a GW3.

One thing is for certain though: PvE ganking has no place in any Guild Wars game.

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I would rather have they made a sequel like Path of Exile does it soon with Path of Exile 2.What does that mean?Make a sequel that connects with Guild Wars 2.Guild Wars 2 + Guild Wars 3 (basicly a huge ass expansion the size of a full MMO with modern graphics)

Create a new big open world (Core Tyria size) and story with 1-80 content with modern graphics.Update or completely recreate the character modelsIf possible update the graphics of older zonesPlus whatever Arena Net would want to add for a "sequel"

They would need to update/rework the engine, will probably never happen, but one can dream.

What would be the benefits of this?

Guild Wars 3 would already be full of content as soon as it released. (The exact reason why PoE chose to do it. Why throw years of hard work out the window?)They could still market the update as Guild Wars 3 and receive attention from gaming press and gaming communityWe wouldn't lose any progress or MTX.Guild Wars 2's philosophy of no vertical progression and map level scaling makes this game a perfect fit for this model, in a game where all content is still relevant. In fact it's a even better fit for the model than PoE is, since in PoE2 you will have to choose a campaign to level in (PoE1 or PoE2). In Guild Wars 3 you could simply jump between GW2 and GW3 without any issues.

"So pretty much just a a fancy expansion called Guild Wars 3 for marketing reasons?"

Somewhat .. but not quite ..It's a new concept, we will have to wait and see how well it works out for Path of Exile.It updates the game to modern standards while adding all the content you would expect from a sequel.

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@uberkingkong.8041 said:GW2 though, its not a full MMORPG yet either, one aspect it is missing, is Open World PvP.Open World PvP is what full MMORPG's like EQ and WoW have. Something GW2 and ESO lacks to become a real full MMORPG.

Yay arbitrary definitions of acronyms are always fun. It's been years but once upon a time WOW had servers with open world PVP enabled (which were usually empty/devoid of players) and servers with open world PVP disabled (which were usually active and full of players), fun times.

Also, WVW is not Open World PVP? What is it, instanced PVP?

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@"Taril.8619" said:Just because it doesn't involve ganking PvErs that have 0 desire to PvP (Anymore at least... Back when WvW was needed for World Completion on the other hand...) doesn't make it any less Open World PvP.

Sometimes, WvW does involve "ganking" PvE players that have no desire to PvP.Like the players that wait for the daily Veteran to respawn, or trying to capture the daily ruins.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:Sometimes, WvW does involve "ganking" PvE players that have no desire to PvP.Like the players that wait for the daily Veteran to respawn, or trying to capture the daily ruins.

Big difference between that kind of thing being a side dish and the main course.

Back in Shadowbane days I'd have to literally park myself in perma-stealth next to groups farming xp (in that terrible "old school" just-redo-the-same-few-fights-over-and-over kind of way) in order to ambush anyone who showed up to gank them.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Taril.8619" said:Just because it doesn't involve ganking PvErs that have 0 desire to PvP (Anymore at least... Back when WvW was needed for World Completion on the other hand...) doesn't make it any less Open World PvP.

Sometimes, WvW
does
involve "ganking" PvE players that have no desire to PvP.Like the players that wait for the daily Veteran to respawn, or trying to capture the daily ruins.

Personally, I hate when this happens but if I'm playing in the WvW sandbox, then I should expect to be treated as an enemy to some players. Sure, it sucks for me when it happens, but I'd rather have it this way than to install open world PvP.

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There might be GW3 ... but no one should assume it will just be a GW2 correction version that contains things they want fixed in it. If anything, I think a GW3 release might eliminate one or two of the least popular game modes ... this idea of having three game modes in one game has been nothing but a disaster for Anet.

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Well, that is a true MMORPG definition. Pretty much all the founding MMORPGs had it.Look at OSRS, WoW, EQ. Foundering MMORPGs.

Lets be honest too, with WvW is instanced not Open World, same with ESO.However, ESO has PvE content that people actually do in the WvW instance, so it feels closer to an Open World PvP feeling than GW2.GW2 lacks PvE content in WvW. None of it is worth it except for daily and one time achievement.

...Speaking of which.If GW2 decides to finally bring back the Underworld, if they want to do it right, they should put it in WvW. And yes, you'd have to travel to it like you do in ESO PvE areas.Like you do in OSRS PvE areas in PvP. Like you do in EQ and WoW, theres a good dungeon... But its in enemy territory too.

This would make GUILDS in GW2 actually mean something, as in Guild Mission is go into WvW do this PvE content, with 15 of us no one is likely to mess with us unless its a zerg... But 5 or less of us going in, probably gonna get messed with.

...The one thing GW2 lacks, is meaningful small to medium sized parties. As in you login, you search for friends and say lets do this.Not at a scheduled time like raids or guild missions, not a random PUG squad. But a on the fly, with friends, with guilds, like 5-20 of them.

GW2 needs to work on content where friends actually start mattering, guilds actually start mattering, 5-20 is good enough, over 20+ makes it just too easy to do. Over 20+ is hard to get together too, and starts to be a random PUG squad with meaningless connections/friendships.

One of the core things about MMORPGs is connections and friendships.

..You can be on a losing server, but if you have around 15 people that always down to ride with you, the outnumbered server doesn't feel so outnumbered anymore. Sure that enemy zerg may come and rekt you, but you can do stuff, and that enemy zerg has better things to do like go after bigger fish than to rekt a 15ish group all day.

As for GW3. All I want you to think about is.WoW does not have a WoW2EQ has an EQ2, but it failed, EQ is betterOSRS has a new Runescape, but if failed OSRS is betterAnd that GW2 was born along with Diablo3 and Elder Scrolls Online, so best pay attention to them.Diablo3 doesn't have open world anything, and I'm not sure if it considers itself MMORPG, but my opinion, they should make Diablo4 and it be a TRUE MMORPG....As for GW3 or GW2,And TRUE MMORPG

IF you look at living story, the Charr are rebellion, the next expansion could be nothing but everyone rebelling.Pick your side.Tyria is now Open World PvP boys and girls.That would draw in a lot of WoW playerbase, because the playerbase of WoW, its mainly Open World PvP'ers.And ya know another fact....WoW is STILL the highest populated MMORPG...Let me say this again too, WoW is mainly Open World PvP'ers, and HIGHEST populated MMORPG.Think about it...Also thinking more, MMORPGs back then, you had to run to your place or get a wizard portal. I'm ok with WP, but I'm glad they reducing the amount of WP in zones. Sure its 2020 time to adapt, but you can't put the 2020 in a TRUE MMORPG. Be thankful when you die others cannot loot you. You don't have all your gold drop when you die too.

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I feel pretty confident that ANet has the necessary metrics to understand what content is mostly engaged in by the player base which is why there seems to be more focus on open world than PvP/WvW. This might also be true for guilds which is why the content for guilds dried up some time ago.

@uberkingkong.8041 said:The one thing GW2 lacks, is meaningful small to medium sized parties. As in you login, you search for friends and say lets do this.Not at a scheduled time like raids or guild missions, not a random PUG squad. But a on the fly, with friends, with guilds, like 5-20 of them.One thing it lacks.... for you. I frequently play with a small group of friends and we don't have a guild hall.

GW2 needs to work on content where friends actually start mattering, guilds actually start mattering, 5-20 is good enough, over 20+ makes it just too easy to do. Over 20+ is hard to get together too, and starts to be a random PUG squad with meaningless connections/friendships.Again, this is your perspective, your preference. It may not be the model that ANet chooses to follow. My small group of friends doesn't have any problem with doing content that involves a large group of random players.

One of the core things about MMORPGs is connections and friendships.Really? This is a core design point? I'm not sure that I agree with you.

You can be on a losing server, but if you have around 15 people that always down to ride with you, the outnumbered server doesn't feel so outnumbered anymore. Sure that enemy zerg may come and rekt you, but you can do stuff, and that enemy zerg has better things to do like go after bigger fish than to rekt a 15ish group all day.You seem to be focused a lot on WvW aspects of gaming. While GW2 has WvW content, it doesn't seem to me to be the game's primary focus. I don't believe that it should start to be that focus now.

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I think we can safely put to bed any ideas that a "true mmo" requires open world pvp outside of what WvW style modes already offer. GW2 does a lot of things that the earlier MMOs like UO, Everquest, Anarchy Online and many others (WoW was a few years later) did not.

Ultimately someone else already covered what makes an MMORPG and open world pvp isn't one of the criteria, so lets not allow that to drive the conversation since it isn't at all correct

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@uberkingkong.8041 said:Let me say this again too, WoW is mainly Open World PvP'ers, and HIGHEST populated MMORPG.Think about it.

It's why WoW's PVP servers were dead before they consolidated them... oh wait.Highest populated MMORPG? Yes. Because it has open world pvp? Obviously not.

Couldn't say it better. No one should be illogically joining two 'facts' and implying they are related and then speculating it's what is holding GW franchise back from massive success.

I think it's safe to say that very few people that are fans of the GW franchise would want OW PVP and probably just as safe to say it would attract not many people who don't play GW franchise as well. There are games that do it better ... and those people know it.

I'm also certain that whatever GW3 could be ... no definition of MMORPG will constrain it. In otherwords, people need to stop getting hung up about definitions ... they aren't relevant. No one chooses a game to play because of how stringent the game adheres to some definition of what an MMORPG is.

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No.

Sure make another game (MMO even) set in Tyria with the lore, but make it something different than GW2. Call it "Tyria" or something. If there were going to be a new IP, I'd rather it be that, "new".

A lot of things are broken or just too outdated (including some mechanics), especially in the early content of GW2.

I would however love for GW2 to get some well deserved polish. Honestly I would prefer a seamless "remaster" of some content, LWS1 replacement, engine optimization and higher resolution textures in older zones than a rehash of Guild Wars 2 with the label of Guild Wars 3. Too bad all the player data, environments couldn't somehow be migrated to something like Unreal Engine 4, which would possibly make it more possible for upgrades to later Unreal Engine iterations in the future and help "future-proof" the game. Add in better/stable server tech, and amazing! Honestly, if this was the new feature of the third expansion, then it would be the best feature. Probably better than mounts. haha. But in the end, is GW2 a forever game? Does ANet really want to keep this as their flagship until the end? If not, such overhauls like engine upgrades are likely not worth it. However, if they want this to still be considered competition after another 5 years, then yeah, the update would be essential.

TLDR: No, I don't think there should be a "Guild Wars 3". I would rather see something new and different while still keeping with the same Arenanet philosophy (map exploration, horizontal progression, beautiful environments) found in both GW1 and GW2. But I'd even more rather see a better GW2.

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@ASP.8093 said:

@uberkingkong.8041 said:GW2 though, its not a full MMORPG yet either, one aspect it is missing, is Open World PvP.Open World PvP is what full MMORPG's like EQ and WoW have. Something GW2 and ESO lacks to become a real full MMORPG.

One of the greatest strengths of the Guild Wars series is that they don't just copy bad ideas from previous MMOGs.

Creating new bad ideas isn't any better in my opinion.

I do agree with you about open world PvP though.

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I don't think adding a third to this franchise would be beneficial. I've loved this game for years but the past few have just been consistently disappointing and inconsistent pretty much everywhere else. The only thing we can ever truly count on is gemstore updates every 2 weeks.

They've had multiple features throughout this game's lifespan that they've just completely abandoned. Fractals (one every 2 years is pretty much life support.) Dungeons (since vanilla.) Raids (never did them and can understand not wanting to spend the resources on them in their current state but why not try to improve or iterate on them instead of converting them to a one boss, one room encounter with crap rng rewards?) Guild Halls (aside from the occasional decoration drop here and there.)

Living story releases that feel smaller, and smaller, and smaller. Bounties were abandoned. Not that they were overly exciting to begin with as the rewards for doing anything in this game are generally nothing more than mats that might equate to .01% of what you need to craft a legendary.

To be honest it just seems like there's no organization behind the scenes, there's hardly any marketing to appeal to new players despite having beautiful artwork and an engaging combat system. They have seemingly some of the most talented devs in the business but it just feels like there's a total lack of direction and over the past few years it just feels like more and more resources have been starved out of the game. Less updates, less content. We might have had interesting current event releases awhile back, but those have now been shoved aside in favor of some generic bonus event that gives us some low dollar gemstore items, magic find boosters, and rng boxes with .0000000001% chance at a new shiny infusion. They're not even consistent with these events? I love no downstate wvw but we've gotten it twice in what.... a year? You'd think during this downtime they would be able to automate some of these bonus events like the boss rush, meta event rush, fractal rush, similarly to how they've automated festivals. But it's just totally random.

Anyway, yeah, I don't think I'd invest in a third rendition of this franchise. Unless it had substantially more funding and some semblance of consistency or seemed to reflect that it was the majority focus of the studio. As it is right now it just seems like there's a few passionate people left developing this game and the rest are off working on another project.

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