Why SnowCrows is destroying Raiding

Fangoth.4503 · October 13, 2020

@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Blumpf.2518 said:In theory yes, but in reality people are stupid and snowcrows should consider this and maybe offer LFG builds and LFG raid setups for the average players.Since they are the meta they have some responsibility and should not, even unintentionally, destroy raiding for average players.

This is my gripe with snow scrows x1000

They would do the commmunity so much more good teaching people builds for fault-tolerant kills than setting us up for endless training runs full of people not able to play at their level.

Wdym? They are present in any training guild that i know of and there is many more highly skilled player to teach people ther.e.Snowcrow also have both a website and discord where you can gather information and ask for tips/more information.But yeah I think they haven't found any ways to teach those who refuses to be taught

brogue.4926 · October 13, 2020

The builds that SC/LN/other sites (metabattle just copy from these, or are heavily outdated) post are well rounded, but adjustable tools (explained in the class guides sections)Knowing how and when to use them is explained in the raid guides section.A lot of new to raiding players join training communities, which is great because they show people how to use these tools.

The training communities that are out there try to help people, as long as those people are willing to learn and invest some time/gold on getting the suitable tools (knowledge and gear) to get started. Getting started with raiding is daunting, and these communities try their best to help bridge the gap between open world and raids, but there always needs to be a personal drive to start.

I totally disagree that the SC/LN/other "meta" build sites should be made more beginner friendly, because for the most part - they are when used correctly.

Kuma.1503 · October 13, 2020

@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:This thread goes right back into why I believe sites like snowcrows need to list two different kinds of metas:
The normal speed clear meta designed for players of peak experience who don't make mistakes. You could call this "the elite meta."
And then a "safe meta" where the meta is designed for players who do make mistakes, that would gladly DPS a bit slower to be able to clear a raid. It is often that a normal speed clear meta build operating at 100% damage output, can sacrifice about 10% to 15% of that dps value, to literally "double or triple" it's own sustain value, simply by bringing 1 defensive utility + some trait swap to a defensive trait. And then of course the kinds of things can be done which the OP mentioned.
^ If this where to be done, LFGs could list as: "Elite" or "Safe" and players could have different standards within squads, but two different methods to be able to agree upon. It would make the communication of expectations a lot easier. People have said they wanted an easy mode for raids, well this would be the easiest way to achieve it, a community accepted alternative "Safe" meta that players can organize around, who want to play at that pace.

How about you provide the builds for what you deem to be the “safe meta”.

You don't have to think very hard to make such a build. Often times, all that needs to happen are a few trait swaps. Here are some examples I use on the classes that I play:

Daredevil:

Invigorating Precision - ~10% DPS loss. Massive sustain increase
Haste - Stunbreak, Helps maintain quickness when supports aren't doing their job
Swap deadly arts for trickery. Higher Vigor uptime = more dodges. Lower steal CD = more dodges. More Ini = You can afford to use vault as a dodge in a pinch. Less reliance on condi uptime on boss.

Weaver:

Master's Fortitude - Bigger Health buffer
Run marauder gear - If 11k hp is too squishy. Better to stay alive and deal ~10% less dps than to constantly go down.

Renegade:

Swap Shiro for Jallis. Mostly for fights where stability is beneficial. Has better breakbar damage if group CC is lacking.
Consider running Heal ren over Alac ren.

Scourge

A heal scourge will literally hard carry inexperienced groups. In a very "bad" group, you can run full Magi with mercy runes and you can literally pick up an entire raid over and over again. You can even pull downed bodies out of damaging AoE's. (My favorite build for carrying strikes through boneskinner)

Reaper

Soul Eater - Even more sustain on an already tanky build.

Holosmith

Elixir U - Stunbreak. Helps with boon uptime if supports aren't doing their job

Scrapper

Run Power scrapper in place of a Holosmith if Healers are poor. Barrier helps them maintain scholar rune uptime which makes up for the dps loss.
Heal Scrapper - Very good healing and cleansing build on fights where condis are a problem such as Sloth.

Firebrand

Run Saraph support FB in place of a DPS. Still dishes out respectable dps while pumping out good heals and boons.
Replace Balthazar runes with Firebrand runes for better boon uptime. Very helpful when running without an Alacrigade/Chrono.

Laila Lightness.8742 · October 13, 2020

@Kuma.1503 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:This thread goes right back into why I believe sites like snowcrows need to list two different kinds of metas:
The normal speed clear meta designed for players of peak experience who don't make mistakes. You could call this "the elite meta."
And then a "safe meta" where the meta is designed for players who do make mistakes, that would gladly DPS a bit slower to be able to clear a raid. It is often that a normal speed clear meta build operating at 100% damage output, can sacrifice about 10% to 15% of that dps value, to literally "double or triple" it's own sustain value, simply by bringing 1 defensive utility + some trait swap to a defensive trait. And then of course the kinds of things can be done which the OP mentioned.
^ If this where to be done, LFGs could list as: "Elite" or "Safe" and players could have different standards within squads, but two different methods to be able to agree upon. It would make the communication of expectations a lot easier. People have said they wanted an easy mode for raids, well this would be the easiest way to achieve it, a community accepted alternative "Safe" meta that players can organize around, who want to play at that pace.

How about you provide the builds for what you deem to be the “safe meta”.

You don't have to think very hard to make such a build. Often times, all that needs to happen are a few trait swaps. Here are some examples I use on the classes that I play:

Daredevil:

Invigorating Precision - ~10% DPS loss. Massive sustain increase
Haste - Stunbreak, Helps maintain quickness when supports aren't doing their job
Swap
deadly arts
for
trickery
. Higher Vigor uptime = more dodges. Lower steal CD = more dodges. More Ini = You can afford to use vault as a dodge in a pinch. Less reliance on condi uptime on boss.

Weaver:

Master's Fortitude - Bigger Health buffer
Run
marauder
gear - If 11k hp is too squishy. Better to stay alive and deal ~10% less dps than to constantly go down.

Renegade:

Swap
Shiro
for
Jallis
. Mostly for fights where stability is beneficial. Has better breakbar damage if group CC is lacking.
Consider running Heal ren over Alac ren.

Scourge

A heal scourge will literally hard carry inexperienced groups. In a very "bad" group, you can run full Magi with mercy runes and you can literally pick up an entire raid over and over again. You can even pull downed bodies out of damaging AoE's. (My favorite build for carrying strikes through boneskinner)

Reaper

Soul Eater - Even more sustain on an already tanky build.

Holosmith

Elixir U - Stunbreak. Helps with boon uptime if supports aren't doing their job

Scrapper

Run Power scrapper in place of a Holosmith if Healers are poor. Barrier helps them maintain scholar rune uptime which makes up for the dps loss.
Heal Scrapper - Very good healing and cleansing build on fights where condis are a problem such as Sloth.

Firebrand

Run Saraph support FB in place of a DPS. Still dishes out respectable dps while pumping out good heals and boons.
Replace Balthazar runes with Firebrand runes for better boon uptime. Very helpful when running without an Alacrigade/Chrono.

Skip maurader and go for ministrel or soldier gear wich is much safer. You dont really need might at all its just a quick run thing so you dont really need it

Kuma.1503 · October 13, 2020

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Kuma.1503 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:This thread goes right back into why I believe sites like snowcrows need to list two different kinds of metas:
The normal speed clear meta designed for players of peak experience who don't make mistakes. You could call this "the elite meta."
And then a "safe meta" where the meta is designed for players who do make mistakes, that would gladly DPS a bit slower to be able to clear a raid. It is often that a normal speed clear meta build operating at 100% damage output, can sacrifice about 10% to 15% of that dps value, to literally "double or triple" it's own sustain value, simply by bringing 1 defensive utility + some trait swap to a defensive trait. And then of course the kinds of things can be done which the OP mentioned.
^ If this where to be done, LFGs could list as: "Elite" or "Safe" and players could have different standards within squads, but two different methods to be able to agree upon. It would make the communication of expectations a lot easier. People have said they wanted an easy mode for raids, well this would be the easiest way to achieve it, a community accepted alternative "Safe" meta that players can organize around, who want to play at that pace.

How about you provide the builds for what you deem to be the “safe meta”.

You don't have to think very hard to make such a build. Often times, all that needs to happen are a few trait swaps. Here are some examples I use on the classes that I play:

Daredevil:

Invigorating Precision - ~10% DPS loss. Massive sustain increase
Haste - Stunbreak, Helps maintain quickness when supports aren't doing their job
Swap
deadly arts
for
trickery
. Higher Vigor uptime = more dodges. Lower steal CD = more dodges. More Ini = You can afford to use vault as a dodge in a pinch. Less reliance on condi uptime on boss.

Weaver:

Master's Fortitude - Bigger Health buffer
Run
marauder
gear - If 11k hp is too squishy. Better to stay alive and deal ~10% less dps than to constantly go down.

Renegade:

Swap
Shiro
for
Jallis
. Mostly for fights where stability is beneficial. Has better breakbar damage if group CC is lacking.
Consider running Heal ren over Alac ren.

Scourge

A heal scourge will literally hard carry inexperienced groups. In a very "bad" group, you can run full Magi with mercy runes and you can literally pick up an entire raid over and over again. You can even pull downed bodies out of damaging AoE's. (My favorite build for carrying strikes through boneskinner)

Reaper

Soul Eater - Even more sustain on an already tanky build.

Holosmith

Elixir U - Stunbreak. Helps with boon uptime if supports aren't doing their job

Scrapper

Run Power scrapper in place of a Holosmith if Healers are poor. Barrier helps them maintain scholar rune uptime which makes up for the dps loss.
Heal Scrapper - Very good healing and cleansing build on fights where condis are a problem such as Sloth.

Firebrand

Run Saraph support FB in place of a DPS. Still dishes out respectable dps while pumping out good heals and boons.
Replace Balthazar runes with Firebrand runes for better boon uptime. Very helpful when running without an Alacrigade/Chrono.

Skip maurader and go for ministrel or soldier gear wich is much safer. You dont really need might at all its just a quick run thing so you dont really need it

I do not recommend this for pugs due to toughness-based aggro (unless you plan on tanking). Marauder gear is typically enough of a buffer with a minimal loss in dps. If it is not, you can use some of the trait swaps listed above for a smoother experience.

Most healers are able to keep themselves alive just fine in my experience.

shejesa.3712 · October 13, 2020

Let me impersonate for a secBoo I don't like meta because someone tells me to play builds harder than nomad bearbow pls help all builds are viable

I was a completely mediocre raider, but I was able to clear stuff, get all achievements, all cms etc. And I am bad at the game. There's no reason for you to cry only because you can't find people who are not bottom of the barrel or are unwilling to play better yourself.

Swagger.1459 · October 13, 2020

@"Blumpf.2518"

"snowcrows should consider this and maybe offer LFG builds and LFG raid setups for the average players."

Why don't you do it yourself?

Swagger.1459 · October 13, 2020

@"Trevor Boyer.6524"

"snowcrows need to list two different kinds of metas"...

No, they don't need to do anything.

"take the initiative"

You peeps who want it can take your own initiative. Put in the effort to compile information and share it with the community, just like SC puts in the initiative and effort to provide their type of information.

Shikaru.7618 · October 13, 2020

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@"Blumpf.2518" said:The Snowcrows Metas goal is: "Kill the boss as fast as possible."And NOT "kill the boss".With the goal "Kill the boss as fast as possible", everything that can make the fight easier is sacrificed for DPS if possible. And that is the problem cause it makes the fights harder for all the people who dont have the SC raid composition, skill, classes, Gold to buy 18x +5 Infusions, dps, perfect rotas etc.With that SC goal in mind people nerf and cripple their raid and remove a lot of stuff from it that makes it easier to actually kill the boss.If you play the SC meta, you should always know that this meta aims at speedkills.

This is absolutely untrue. I've already mentioned that the vast majority of builds on the SC site are NOT meta and certainly not designed as speedkill builds. As are the guides accompanying them them.

Your entire premise is incorrect from the get go.

SC give detailed builds and guides for a variety of skill levels and most are in fact neither meta, nor recommended on many bosses (some even on none). Yet there are still guides and advice for them. That does require someone actually READ through the site though. I mean sure, we could demand SC use some kind of text to speech program and upload voiced guides, but I fear then the not English speaking community might feel offended and demand the guides also get translated into each and every language.

@"Blumpf.2518" said:But with the goal "Kill the boss", you have so much more possibilities.For example, back in the time some months ago, when firebrand still got 250 toughness from quickness, the tank had to have more than 1250 toughness or firebrand would be the tank. So i decided to switch 3 Harrier Items of my druid for Minstrel gear, increasing toughness and vitality to 1236, which was still lower than the firebrands toughness, so it was no problem at all. It didnt affect the healing or the boons of my druid but it was so much more relaxing to play cause incoming damage was lower and hitpoints were higher. It was so much easier to play only because of some more toughness and vitality and cause i didnt really have to care about staying alive, cause even when i got hit by something it wouldnt hit as hard as before. Only because of 3 items changed. You can still do this on almost all healer classes as long as the tank has more toughness than the healer and it makes raids so much easier for you.

Yes, and? Should the SC website not cater to each and every minor change and gear available? What about compositions that did not use Firebrand?

You are expecting that others do the entire work in minute detail for everyone. That is impossible. The website and thereby the SC players give guidelines and advice as best they can. They will NOT be able to think for each and every other player.

@"Blumpf.2518" said:Or another example, as Warrior i play Core Warrior. Why, because Battle Standard can rezz a lot of downstate players instantly. In LFG people will go down and if there are like 5 people down its usually a wipe. So playing not meta can prevent a group wipe. Berserkers have Headbutt as Elite, so they cant take it. Well they could take it, but then their CC sucks. Also Core Warrior has 1000 Toughness instead of 700 like Berserker, so incoming Damage is lower. My Mace F1 is always ready, and not only when in berserker mode, so i can do a lot of CC. I can freely choose between Bolas and Kick (immobilize or even more CC) and since im playing with healing signet, thats a skill less i have to use which makes the rota easier. Theres no berserker mode which makes the rota easier again. And the funny thing is, while at the training golem the berserker does more damage in theory or benchmarks, in lfg raids i outdps the berserkers most of the time. And what is great as core is the empower allies trait. +100 Power for everyone in the group. And while it doesnt add to my DPS it increases the DPS of other players, so basically it comes from my core warrior and is just not shown in ark dps. If you have a core warrior in a power group you can add +5k dps on top of the core warriors dps, cause thats the dps others do more, but the reason for it is the warriors empower allies trait.

You realize, half the things you wrote are nonsense. The rest has nothing to do with core versus berserker.

Berserker warriors can take Battle Standard just as much as any core warrior. Can equip maces just like a core warrior and decide not to use their burst skill. The berserker can equip Kick or Bolas, last I checked core warriors do not gain an additional utility slot.

I don't even want to get into your toughness argument. not sure where you got that one from even. There is no toughness difference between core or berserker unless different gear is used.

The only difference between core and berserker is 1 trait line and the change in the burst skill. So yes, if you value that 1 trait-line above the mandated Berserker trait-line then core makes sense. Your Skull Crack F1 Mace will do 100 defiance bar damage per adrenaline bar (300 at 3 bars adrenaline), the Spellbreaker Skull Grinder does 100 defiance bar damage per adrenaline bar and can be used multiple times (as a matter of fact, if combined with Blood Reckoning, it is possible to chain 3 Skull Grinders within a shorter timespan than 1 Skull Crack cooldown).

Last I checked, there is a tactics variant even on the SC website for Empower Allies and Double Standards:

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/berserker/power%20banner/

All one needs to do is READ.

@"Blumpf.2518" said:And yet another example, as alac renegade most people will use the power based diviner build cause in theory it does a lot of dps. In reality however people will most of the time deal about 10k dps with it. So why not use the renegade as a healer that grants Alac.

No person worth their salt argues or says that power alac does good damage. It's pretty much known that power alac is used because it allows for Heal Firebrand or other healers to get used because heal renegade is very ground target tied and VERY unflexible in which legends it can take versus power. Sorry, you are 100% incorrect on WHY aren is being used and it is most certainly not used for "a lot of dps".

@"Blumpf.2518" said:Use a Healfirebrand in Group 1, a HealAlac Renegade in Group 2 and add a Chrono for quickness in group 2 and thats it. Most people dont even see that possibility and play something like 2xfirebrand+druid+alacren.

Most people play that comp because:A. might and fury uptime is almost guaranteed on a druid and that quickbrand in your second group will NOT provide 25 might and neither will the chronoB. it is far easier to run something which moves easier than heal renegade or maintain the flexibility on the 2nd heal slot by bringing druid (allowing for tempest or heal necro which will be far better than a heal ren in weaker groups).C. don't have access to every single custom build left and right. New players struggle already with getting 1-2 characters geared. Expecting custom tailored builds like boonthief, heal renegade etc. is not efficient.D. it's far easier to just take a dps loss but guaranteed 10 player alacrity without having to shuffle around the composition, thus sacrificing a dps slot, instead of having to shuffle healers constantly

Going to skip the rest because by this point I just don't feel like having to correct the assumptions made. Suffice to say, you are a pretty good example of someone who "thinks" he has an understanding of meta or compositions, but are actually incorrect most of the time of why things are run.

You'd do well on reading a bit more on the SC site instead of making up assumptions tbh.

Regarding toughness https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy its a minor trait and must be taken by all berserkers.

Ayrilana.1396 · October 13, 2020

@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?

I think it would be beneficial to look up what entitlement actually means. Your usage of it in your post is incorrect.

Firebeard.1746 · October 13, 2020

@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?

I think it would be beneficial to look up what entitlement actually means. Your usage of it in your post is incorrect.

It's completely correct. You want the devs to use precious resources on something that isn't valued by the community. Because of the community's behavior. You're literally a 1-2% of the population being asked to be catered to.

Ayrilana.1396 · October 13, 2020

@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?

I think it would be beneficial to look up what entitlement actually means. Your usage of it in your post is incorrect.

It's completely correct. You want the devs to use precious resources on something that isn't valued by the community. Because of the community's behavior. You're literally a 1-2% of the population being asked to be catered to.

First off, what you just said doesn’t dispute the previous post. You still missed the term.

With this post, you’re still misusing it as well. It’s not entitlement to expect Anet to maintain a part of the game, which they added, when they routine update other areas. Equality is not entitlement. Otherwise, by your definition, sPvP and WvW players must be entitled for wanting support in their game modes when the active player base in open world PvE dwarfs theirs.

Cyninja.2954 · October 13, 2020

@Shikaru.7618 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@"Blumpf.2518" said:The Snowcrows Metas goal is: "Kill the boss as fast as possible."And NOT "kill the boss".With the goal "Kill the boss as fast as possible", everything that can make the fight easier is sacrificed for DPS if possible. And that is the problem cause it makes the fights harder for all the people who dont have the SC raid composition, skill, classes, Gold to buy 18x +5 Infusions, dps, perfect rotas etc.With that SC goal in mind people nerf and cripple their raid and remove a lot of stuff from it that makes it easier to actually kill the boss.If you play the SC meta, you should always know that this meta aims at speedkills.

This is absolutely untrue. I've already mentioned that the vast majority of builds on the SC site are NOT meta and certainly not designed as speedkill builds. As are the guides accompanying them them.

Your entire premise is incorrect from the get go.

SC give detailed builds and guides for a variety of skill levels and most are in fact neither meta, nor recommended on many bosses (some even on none). Yet there are still guides and advice for them. That does require someone actually READ through the site though. I mean sure, we could demand SC use some kind of text to speech program and upload voiced guides, but I fear then the not English speaking community might feel offended and demand the guides also get translated into each and every language.

@"Blumpf.2518" said:But with the goal "Kill the boss", you have so much more possibilities.For example, back in the time some months ago, when firebrand still got 250 toughness from quickness, the tank had to have more than 1250 toughness or firebrand would be the tank. So i decided to switch 3 Harrier Items of my druid for Minstrel gear, increasing toughness and vitality to 1236, which was still lower than the firebrands toughness, so it was no problem at all. It didnt affect the healing or the boons of my druid but it was so much more relaxing to play cause incoming damage was lower and hitpoints were higher. It was so much easier to play only because of some more toughness and vitality and cause i didnt really have to care about staying alive, cause even when i got hit by something it wouldnt hit as hard as before. Only because of 3 items changed. You can still do this on almost all healer classes as long as the tank has more toughness than the healer and it makes raids so much easier for you.

Yes, and? Should the SC website not cater to each and every minor change and gear available? What about compositions that did not use Firebrand?

You are expecting that others do the entire work in minute detail for everyone. That is impossible. The website and thereby the SC players give guidelines and advice as best they can. They will NOT be able to think for each and every other player.

@"Blumpf.2518" said:Or another example, as Warrior i play Core Warrior. Why, because Battle Standard can rezz a lot of downstate players instantly. In LFG people will go down and if there are like 5 people down its usually a wipe. So playing not meta can prevent a group wipe. Berserkers have Headbutt as Elite, so they cant take it. Well they could take it, but then their CC sucks. Also Core Warrior has 1000 Toughness instead of 700 like Berserker, so incoming Damage is lower. My Mace F1 is always ready, and not only when in berserker mode, so i can do a lot of CC. I can freely choose between Bolas and Kick (immobilize or even more CC) and since im playing with healing signet, thats a skill less i have to use which makes the rota easier. Theres no berserker mode which makes the rota easier again. And the funny thing is, while at the training golem the berserker does more damage in theory or benchmarks, in lfg raids i outdps the berserkers most of the time. And what is great as core is the empower allies trait. +100 Power for everyone in the group. And while it doesnt add to my DPS it increases the DPS of other players, so basically it comes from my core warrior and is just not shown in ark dps. If you have a core warrior in a power group you can add +5k dps on top of the core warriors dps, cause thats the dps others do more, but the reason for it is the warriors empower allies trait.

You realize, half the things you wrote are nonsense. The rest has nothing to do with core versus berserker.

Berserker warriors can take Battle Standard just as much as any core warrior. Can equip maces just like a core warrior and decide not to use their burst skill. The berserker can equip Kick or Bolas, last I checked core warriors do not gain an additional utility slot.

I don't even want to get into your toughness argument. not sure where you got that one from even. There is no toughness difference between core or berserker unless different gear is used.

The only difference between core and berserker is 1 trait line and the change in the burst skill. So yes, if you value that 1 trait-line above the mandated Berserker trait-line then core makes sense. Your Skull Crack F1 Mace will do 100 defiance bar damage per adrenaline bar (300 at 3 bars adrenaline), the Spellbreaker Skull Grinder does 100 defiance bar damage per adrenaline bar and can be used multiple times (as a matter of fact, if combined with Blood Reckoning, it is possible to chain 3 Skull Grinders within a shorter timespan than 1 Skull Crack cooldown).

Last I checked, there is a tactics variant even on the SC website for Empower Allies and Double Standards:

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/berserker/power%20banner/

All one needs to do is READ.

@"Blumpf.2518" said:And yet another example, as alac renegade most people will use the power based diviner build cause in theory it does a lot of dps. In reality however people will most of the time deal about 10k dps with it. So why not use the renegade as a healer that grants Alac.

No person worth their salt argues or says that power alac does good damage. It's pretty much known that power alac is used because it allows for Heal Firebrand or other healers to get used because heal renegade is very ground target tied and VERY unflexible in which legends it can take versus power. Sorry, you are 100% incorrect on WHY aren is being used and it is most certainly not used for "a lot of dps".

@"Blumpf.2518" said:Use a Healfirebrand in Group 1, a HealAlac Renegade in Group 2 and add a Chrono for quickness in group 2 and thats it. Most people dont even see that possibility and play something like 2xfirebrand+druid+alacren.

Most people play that comp because:A. might and fury uptime is almost guaranteed on a druid and that quickbrand in your second group will NOT provide 25 might and neither will the chronoB. it is far easier to run something which moves easier than heal renegade or maintain the flexibility on the 2nd heal slot by bringing druid (allowing for tempest or heal necro which will be far better than a heal ren in weaker groups).C. don't have access to every single custom build left and right. New players struggle already with getting 1-2 characters geared. Expecting custom tailored builds like boonthief, heal renegade etc. is not efficient.D. it's far easier to just take a dps loss but guaranteed 10 player alacrity without having to shuffle around the composition, thus sacrificing a dps slot, instead of having to shuffle healers constantly

Going to skip the rest because by this point I just don't feel like having to correct the assumptions made. Suffice to say, you are a pretty good example of someone who "thinks" he has an understanding of meta or compositions, but are actually incorrect most of the time of why things are run.

You'd do well on reading a bit more on the SC site instead of making up assumptions tbh.

Regarding toughness

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

its a minor trait and must be taken by all berserkers.

Okay that one I missed in the rework. Simple though, in this context a player could theoretically use toughness gear at the expense of power (or ferocity given Demolisher is not available in PvE and Knights would do) and end up with similar (actually still superior given how power>ferocity) stats as a core build even without messing with any tanking mechanics. In essence the trait simply gives free stats towards damage which can be reverted with itemization.

So the issues becomes rather one of: do I want to invest into such nonsense and make a custom build with a 1k toughness berserker (which one could do if not blindly following SC builds but thinking for oneself), or do I take the damage benefit at the damage taken increase?

Given the Blood Reckoning self heal of the berserker, I'd still contest the loss in toughness is no significant loss in survivability.

EDIT:Let me actually throw both builds up just for reference (thing to not: the editor does NOT account for that stat changes from the trait so those need to be added at the end manually. I kept the gear similar and utilities/traits as well):Berserker:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKABcelnlRwmYdMOGJm6WWtKA-zxYYhon6raHSgJI1TpFhQtSgKUAtMC80sExZE-e3266 Power, 999 toughness, 1551 ferocity (253.4% crit damage), 300 condition damage

Core Warrior:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKABcelnlFwmYdMOGJO2SdLLA-zxQYhon6fHSwp0iQoWJQFKgWGBeaWi4MC-e3198 Power, 1000 toughness, 1591 ferocity (256.07% crit damage)

So I am not seeing the advantage to core here. Berserker can actually chose to not take that useless toughness, or opt to build for it. Core can not. That is without mentioning the free condition damage and benefit of power>ferocity.

Seera.5916 · October 13, 2020

@Swagger.1459 said:@"Trevor Boyer.6524"
"snowcrows need to list two different kinds of metas"...
No, they don't need to do anything.
"take the initiative"
You peeps who want it can take your own initiative. Put in the effort to compile information and share it with the community, just like SC puts in the initiative and effort to provide their type of information.

This. I do get the difficulty in getting people to accept non-meta builds from a site that hasn't developed a reputation.

But you could be up with some builds for each class and then reach out to Snowcrows and ask them if they wouldn't mind verifying the build accomplishes what you claim and to post them on their site. I'm sure they have a contact method listed on the site.

Firebeard.1746 · October 13, 2020

@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?

I think it would be beneficial to look up what entitlement actually means. Your usage of it in your post is incorrect.

It's completely correct. You want the devs to use precious resources on something that isn't valued by the community. Because of the community's behavior. You're literally a 1-2% of the population being asked to be catered to.

First off, what you just said doesn’t dispute the previous post. You still missed the term.

With this post, you’re still misusing it as well. It’s not entitlement to expect Anet to maintain a part of the game, which they added, when they routine update other areas. Equality is not entitlement. Otherwise, by your definition, sPvP and WvW players must be entitled for wanting support in their game modes when the active player base in open world PvE dwarfs theirs.

Except I bet you more players dabble in those than raids as a % of the population. They have limited resources. Expecting them to expend massive resources disportionate to the playerbase is the very definition of entitlement: you expect resources to be spent on YOU instead of other players, when it would benefit way more people than you. YOu see yourself entitled to anet's resources.

I blame the player base more than the raids themselves for this downturn in activity.

Ayrilana.1396 · October 13, 2020

@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?

I think it would be beneficial to look up what entitlement actually means. Your usage of it in your post is incorrect.

It's completely correct. You want the devs to use precious resources on something that isn't valued by the community. Because of the community's behavior. You're literally a 1-2% of the population being asked to be catered to.

First off, what you just said doesn’t dispute the previous post. You still missed the term.

With this post, you’re still misusing it as well. It’s not entitlement to expect Anet to maintain a part of the game, which they added, when they routine update other areas. Equality is not entitlement. Otherwise, by your definition, sPvP and WvW players must be entitled for wanting support in their game modes when the active player base in open world PvE dwarfs theirs.

Except I bet you more players dabble in those than raids as a % of the population. They have limited resources. Expecting them to expend massive resources disportionate to the playerbase is the very definition of entitlement: you expect resources to be spent on YOU instead of other players, when it would benefit way more people than you. YOu see yourself entitled to anet's resources.

I blame the player base more than the raids themselves for this downturn in activity.

It’s not massive resources for raids as the raid team, when it existed, was fairly small. I’m fairly certain that you are already aware of this and your usage of “massive” was just a gross exaggeration.

As I said, you’re twisting what entitlement actually means in the context of what I had said. It’s not entitlement to expect Anet to maintain a part of the game that they haven’t formally stated they would no longer maintain (e.g. dungeons).

Seera.5916 · October 13, 2020

@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?

I think it would be beneficial to look up what entitlement actually means. Your usage of it in your post is incorrect.

It's completely correct. You want the devs to use precious resources on something that isn't valued by the community. Because of the community's behavior. You're literally a 1-2% of the population being asked to be catered to.

First off, what you just said doesn’t dispute the previous post. You still missed the term.

With this post, you’re still misusing it as well. It’s not entitlement to expect Anet to maintain a part of the game, which they added, when they routine update other areas. Equality is not entitlement. Otherwise, by your definition, sPvP and WvW players must be entitled for wanting support in their game modes when the active player base in open world PvE dwarfs theirs.

Except I bet you more players dabble in those than raids as a % of the population. They have limited resources. Expecting them to expend massive resources disportionate to the playerbase is the very definition of entitlement: you expect resources to be spent on YOU instead of other players, when it would benefit way more people than you. YOu see yourself entitled to anet's resources.

I blame the player base more than the raids themselves for this downturn in activity.

Shouldn't take massive resources to maintain raids.

I expect MMO companies to maintain content that players can still access. Regardless of how popular or not it is. They should pull content they no longer wish to maintain.

Keep in mind that maintaining content is different from adding new content.

Blumpf.2518 · October 13, 2020

@Swagger.1459 said:@"Blumpf.2518"
"snowcrows should consider this and maybe offer LFG builds and LFG raid setups for the average players."
Why don't you do it yourself?

You know, i tried that, but since my "range" on the internet is so much less than snowcrows the thing that happens is:I: "Hey i see youre having trouble in this bossfight, you might wanna try this trait instead of this and this utility skill instead of this"Lfg Raider: "WTF? Are you stupid? Im playing the metabuild from snowcrows, now shut up"

I'm not the reference for builds and rotas. I neither have the internet range or the reputation. Im not publishing stuff on youtube or websites, im just a normal person who thinks for himself. If i tell someone something about raids or classes or builds it only comes from my experience as a gw2 player who plays since release and has done a lot of raiding with >2000 LI and killed all bosses multiple times with multiple classes. So yeah, i have gathered some experience and i know what problems appear for the average raider and how to deal with them.But for people in LFG im just a random stranger, telling them things, they never heard of or even considered thinking about. At the end of the day Snowcrows is like the Wikipedia of Raidbuilds or a famous football club and im only a normal person walking down the street. Of course people will listen to the "big players" then, its totally understandable.But when youre the big player, the number 1, the wikipedia, the idol, you have a responsibility now. You must know that whatever you say or recommend will affect others and thats where snowcrows totally fails. They know almost everyone is using their builds but they dont care about the consequences of their recommendations for normal players.

Trevor Boyer.6524 · October 13, 2020

@"Blumpf.2518" said:The Snowcrows Metas goal is: "Kill the boss as fast as possible."And NOT "kill the boss".With the goal "Kill the boss as fast as possible", everything that can make the fight easier is sacrificed for DPS if possible. And that is the problem cause it makes the fights harder for all the people who dont have the SC raid composition, skill, classes, Gold to buy 18x +5 Infusions, dps, perfect rotas etc.With that SC goal in mind people nerf and cripple their raid and remove a lot of stuff from it that makes it easier to actually kill the boss.

^ This is the bottom line.

Blumpf has an inarguable point here. As much some would want to make an argument out of this, you know it's true. The fact of the matter, going back to the OP post and title of the thread, is that this ideology is destroying raid participation and preventing players from getting involved or even wanting to get involved. There needs to be an alternative route for stepping aboard raids. The keyword there is "stepping", as in not being required to leap 20 ft into the air and double jump to step aboard.

Laila Lightness.8742 · October 13, 2020

@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?

I think it would be beneficial to look up what entitlement actually means. Your usage of it in your post is incorrect.

It's completely correct. You want the devs to use precious resources on something that isn't valued by the community. Because of the community's behavior. You're literally a 1-2% of the population being asked to be catered to.

First off, what you just said doesn’t dispute the previous post. You still missed the term.

With this post, you’re still misusing it as well. It’s not entitlement to expect Anet to maintain a part of the game, which they added, when they routine update other areas. Equality is not entitlement. Otherwise, by your definition, sPvP and WvW players must be entitled for wanting support in their game modes when the active player base in open world PvE dwarfs theirs.

Except I bet you more players dabble in those than raids as a % of the population. They have limited resources. Expecting them to expend massive resources disportionate to the playerbase is the very definition of entitlement: you expect resources to be spent on YOU instead of other players, when it would benefit way more people than you. YOu see yourself entitled to anet's resources.

I blame the player base more than the raids themselves for this downturn in activity.

anet could just nerf raids to below dungeon difficulty

Firebeard.1746 · October 13, 2020

@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:
@Firebeard.1746 said:
@Ayrilana.1396 said:Such entitlement to expect others to teach you how to play the game.I think it's entitlement to defend terrible metas, people teaching them and then whine when no one plays the game mode. Gee whose fault is that?