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October 13th 2020 balance patch - This is what we get


Trevor Boyer.6524

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These were my immediate thoughts, as I'm sure most of the player base felt the same way:

Profession Skills

Elementalist

  • Tornado: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 120 seconds in PvP only.

~ Wait what? Really? No fix to shock aura share or light rod? Not even a slight tiny tweak? Just why? Why ignore everything the community points out?

Engineer

  • Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit: Reduced might stacks per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
  • Lesser Grenade Barrage: Reduced power coefficient per grenade from 0.5 to 0.3 in PvP only.
  • Flashbang: Reduced blind duration from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only.
  • Supply Crate: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 120 seconds in PvP only. Reduced stun duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • System Shocker: Reduced base barrier gained from 724 to 362 in PvP only.
  • Bulwark Gyro: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.
  • Throw Mine: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.
  • Personal Battering Ram: Increased ammo recharge from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.

~ Throw Mine is a good fix. Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit was a good fix. Bulwark/PBR didn't need to be dinked with. No one cared about System Shocker. No one cared about Supply Crate. ONLY Lesser Grenade Barrage was tuned down? Just what? What? Grenades in general, the entire kit everything about it, is greatly overperforming and will continue to greatly overperform. This isn't even close to the kind of damage nerf that players were expecting on Grenades that we needed. The Flashbang fix is insulting. Flashbang needed way heavier nerfs than this. This little tini tiny tweak to blind duration doesn't change anything about how strong Flashbang is. After months & months and dozens & dozens of entire threads being written and discussed about the great overperformance of Engineer Explosives 1/3/1 Grenade Kit, this is what we get. Why ignore ALL of the feedback when literally every single person in the forum and competitive community has agreed that Explosives 1/3/1 Grenade Kit is greatly overperforming? It's very rare they we all agree on something, and when that happens, get the hint.

Guardian

  • Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.

~ I dunno how to feel about it. I don't really think this was necessary, nor do I think it will change much.

Revenant

  • Sevenshot: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.31 to 0.24 in PvP only.
  • Scorchrazor: Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 18 seconds in PvP only.

~ Not even sure it really needed fixing to begin with honestly but w/e. If anything, that nerf to Sevenshot is going to hurt the build a lot.

Thief

  • Hidden Thief: Reduced base stealth duration from 2 seconds to 0.25 seconds in PvP only.
  • Concealing Restoration: Reduced base stealth duration from 1 second to 0.5 seconds in PvP only.

~ These are adequate changes imo. So these will be more like detargets now, rather than stealth. I'm ok with that.

Yeah well whatever. The only way this patch could be more disappointing is if they had buffed Grenade damage. Right now the meta consists of only 3 things https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest and it will continue to consist of only Tempest/Holosmith/DP Daredevil. This patch will change nothing wich is very unfortunate considering how many people are walking away right now due to these disgusting disparities in balance. Holosmith in particular can only be compared to some of the historical top tier mistakes we've seen, such as Chrono Bunkers, Old Cele Eles, or CI Mirage.

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A class that has burst skills designed to require hard cc before hand and damage on those skills balanced around the hard cc significantly supplementing the over all burst gets its damage stripped from its cc, no significant damage compensation to the skills that required the cc before hand, no design change to skills that have long cast times and root u due to initially being designed to follow hard cc. Can anyone guess the class in question?If the devs couldnt foresee how these changes would negatively effect a class with such a design, especially with no compensation or design changes to compensate for its initial design I have no clue why anyone would expect much balance wise from these devs, this is only 1 of many examples someone could chose. Anyway was as I expected.

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Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. So such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

Nah, I'm tired of the half of year to year long excuses as to why something that is very clearly game breaking can't be fixed within a reasonable time frame.

Other companies patch their games almost immediately when design errors are identified. With Arenanet we aren't even talking big deep programming issues here. We're talking simple tweaks to numbers man. We shouldn't be waiting 6+ months for simple fixes.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast does not need some shaves, core and druid do not either . But knowing A-net if they do touch it core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:These were my immediate thoughts, as I'm sure most of the player base felt the same way:

Profession Skills

Elementalist

  • Tornado: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 120 seconds in PvP only.

~ Wait what? Really? No fix to shock aura share or light rod? Not even a slight tiny tweak? Just why? Why ignore everything the community points out?

What changes did you exactly want to see in LR?

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast needs some shaves, core and druid do not. But knowing A-net core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

Why is everyone on about Soulbeast all of a sudden? This class is mid tier to bottom at this point. Truly. it's not used in Ranked and it isn't used in ATs either. A Soulbeast has to blow every CD it has to land a burst on a 60s interval, that is only slightly higher than What a Ren is doing now on a 15s interval, or a Holosmith is doing with a single toss of a Grenade Barrage.

Damage is literally the only thing that Soulbeast has left. And it can't even brawl with Holo or Ren. It has to deal that damage from far away with an incoming approach before it can consider to stop and stay on node with those classes. And if we are not talking use of One Wolf Pack, the Soulbeasts damage is no longer even comparable to other classes.

Ranger is weak right now. I am the only person in NA who has been using Ranger based builds in ATs for months and months at this point. And when I say that, I mean plat+ players, not all wecome silver join groups.

Hop off the Ranger nerf suggestions and chill out on the paradigm shift please.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast needs some shaves, core and druid do not. But knowing A-net core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

Why is everyone on about Soulbeast all of a sudden? This class is mid tier to bottom at this point. Truly. it's not used in Ranked and it isn't used in ATs either. A Soulbeast has to blow every CD it has to land a burst on a 60s interval, that is only slightly higher than What a Ren is doing now on a 15s interval, or a Holosmith is doing with a single toss of a Grenade Barrage.

Damage is literally the only thing that Soulbeast has left. And it can't even brawl with Holo or Ren. It has to deal that damage from far away with an incoming approach before it can consider to stop and stay on node with those classes. And if we are not talking use of One Wolf Pack, the Soulbeasts damage is no longer even comparable to other classes.

Ranger is weak right now. I am the only person in NA who has been using Ranger based builds in ATs for months and months at this point. And when I say that, I mean plat+ players, not all wecome silver join groups.

Hop off the Ranger nerf suggestions and chill out on the paradigm shift please.

Nah people are running full zerk with mesmer runes and critting for 9k with maul. Dont need one wolf pack.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast needs some shaves, core and druid do not. But knowing A-net core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

Why is everyone on about Soulbeast all of a sudden? This class is mid tier to bottom at this point. Truly. it's not used in Ranked and it isn't used in ATs either. A Soulbeast has to blow every CD it has to land a burst on a 60s interval, that is only slightly higher than What a Ren is doing now on a 15s interval, or a Holosmith is doing with a single toss of a Grenade Barrage.

Damage is literally the only thing that Soulbeast has left. And it can't even brawl with Holo or Ren. It has to deal that damage from far away with an incoming approach before it can consider to stop and stay on node with those classes. And if we are not talking use of One Wolf Pack, the Soulbeasts damage is no longer even comparable to other classes.

Ranger is weak right now. I am the only person in NA who has been using Ranger based builds in ATs for months and months at this point. And when I say that, I mean plat+ players, not all wecome silver join groups.

Hop off the Ranger nerf suggestions and chill out on the paradigm shift please.

Im not saying ranger needs a nerf, im saying that if they DO nerf soul-beast as everyone is claiming and whining about (Really doesn't need to be nerfed, all the pets need to be reworked and made more worthwhile) they would likely nerf core. Because thats how A-net nerfs things, they nerf the foundation and leave the rest regardless of how problematic it is. I dont want nerfs, I dont want anymore nerfs for anything because its sapping the fun right out of the game and I honestly am begining to hate the balance team and CmC.( Was typing fast and had typo's I fixed it now, thats my bad.)

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast needs some shaves, core and druid do not. But knowing A-net core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

Why is everyone on about Soulbeast all of a sudden? This class is mid tier to bottom at this point. Truly. it's not used in Ranked and it isn't used in ATs either. A Soulbeast has to blow every CD it has to land a burst on a 60s interval, that is only slightly higher than What a Ren is doing now on a 15s interval, or a Holosmith is doing with a single toss of a Grenade Barrage.

Damage is literally the only thing that Soulbeast has left. And it can't even brawl with Holo or Ren. It has to deal that damage from far away with an incoming approach before it can consider to stop and stay on node with those classes. And if we are not talking use of One Wolf Pack, the Soulbeasts damage is no longer even comparable to other classes.

Ranger is weak right now. I am the only person in NA who has been using Ranger based builds in ATs for months and months at this point. And when I say that, I mean plat+ players, not all wecome silver join groups.

Hop off the Ranger nerf suggestions and chill out on the paradigm shift please.

Nah people are running full zerk with mesmer runes and critting for 9k with maul. Dont need one wolf pack.

Alright then bet, nerf the interaction of the runes/stat combo and leave the traits/class alone.

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@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast needs some shaves, core and druid do not. But knowing A-net core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

Why is everyone on about Soulbeast all of a sudden? This class is mid tier to bottom at this point. Truly. it's not used in Ranked and it isn't used in ATs either. A Soulbeast has to blow every CD it has to land a burst on a 60s interval, that is only slightly higher than What a Ren is doing now on a 15s interval, or a Holosmith is doing with a single toss of a Grenade Barrage.

Damage is literally the only thing that Soulbeast has left. And it can't even brawl with Holo or Ren. It has to deal that damage from far away with an incoming approach before it can consider to stop and stay on node with those classes. And if we are not talking use of One Wolf Pack, the Soulbeasts damage is no longer even comparable to other classes.

Ranger is weak right now. I am the only person in NA who has been using Ranger based builds in ATs for months and months at this point. And when I say that, I mean plat+ players, not all wecome silver join groups.

Hop off the Ranger nerf suggestions and chill out on the paradigm shift please.

Nah people are running full zerk with mesmer runes and critting for 9k with maul. Dont need one wolf pack.

And what isn't dealing 9k+ death combos in this meta?

The only real difference between Soulbeast and something Like Holo right now, is that Rangers have to go full DPS Berserker to get damage out of Soulbeast, while having really bad sustain, and they have to go full Druid heal amulet if they want sustain and then they have no damage. Holo on the other hand, sustains like a mender bunker Druid while it wears Demo or Berserker, while it matches all of the damage output of the glass cannon Soulbeast. And this isn't even to mention the very wide array of utilities the Holo gets.

Anyone who actively plays Guild Wars 2 pvp can clearly see that Rangers have disappeared almost entirely in competitive play. There are very big reasons for that my friend. Only a handful of people between NA and EU are even left who are able to make it work to viability.

But I'm not going to argue on about something that any active player already knows is true. If you want to stress your point and prove how strong Ranger is, you can go ahead and start posting all of that recent footage of ATs where everyone is playing Ranger because it's so strong.

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Nerfing Grenade Kit is still stupid. Core Engineer is struggling as is. They were right to not touch Grenade kit (though I wish they tuned it up a bit for the sake of core Engineer). Most of these changes seem fine tbh. The thief ones do literally nothing, but hey, if it gets people to shut up about stealth for 5 seconds, its already worth it.

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I’ll just say one thing. Any build that involved symbols is instantly dead because of the change, where it was only out performing other builds as a side noder due to the fact that the damage was better, not even sustain- many builds had monster sustain and disengage compared to guard. So if the damage is the only thing over performing just tweak those symbol modifiers and the damage for the accelerated burns. Now it will just mechanically awkward and even less viable than it is now.

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@Dantheman.3589 said:I’ll just say one thing. Any build that involved symbols is instantly dead because of the change, where it was only out performing other builds as a side noder due to the fact that the damage was better, not even sustain- many builds had monster sustain and disengage compared to guard. So if the damage is the only thing over performing just tweak those symbol modifiers and the damage for the accelerated burns. Now it will just mechanically awkward and even less viable than it is now.

It's just like the people who complain about Ranger. They don't play higher ratings and they don't make it to final rounds of ATs. If they did, they'd realize Core Guard wasn't even a problem to begin with.

Just another disparity of difference between how things perform bellow the bell curve & above, and how that effects forum discussion opinion of what needs to be fixed.

^ Everything always comes right back around to that.

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I like how they decided to nerf ALL ele builds instead of targeting the problematic one, as usual, since 2012.

Pretty much every prediction I made over the past few months happened:Nerfing all ele specs in a random way instead of the actual problem(shock aura and res glyph)Not nerfing EE because it's a new trait and that's off limits for ~1 year.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:Nerfing Grenade Kit is still stupid. Core Engineer is struggling as is. They were right to not touch Grenade kit (though I wish they tuned it up a bit for the sake of core Engineer). Most of these changes seem fine tbh. The thief ones do literally nothing, but hey, if it gets people to shut up about stealth for 5 seconds, its already worth it.

Rofl

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast needs some shaves, core and druid do not. But knowing A-net core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

Why is everyone on about Soulbeast all of a sudden? This class is mid tier to bottom at this point. Truly. it's not used in Ranked and it isn't used in ATs either. A Soulbeast has to blow every CD it has to land a burst on a 60s interval, that is only slightly higher than What a Ren is doing now on a 15s interval, or a Holosmith is doing with a single toss of a Grenade Barrage.

Damage is literally the only thing that Soulbeast has left. And it can't even brawl with Holo or Ren. It has to deal that damage from far away with an incoming approach before it can consider to stop and stay on node with those classes. And if we are not talking use of One Wolf Pack, the Soulbeasts damage is no longer even comparable to other classes.

Ranger is weak right now. I am the only person in NA who has been using Ranger based builds in ATs for months and months at this point. And when I say that, I mean plat+ players, not all wecome silver join groups.

Hop off the Ranger nerf suggestions and chill out on the paradigm shift please.

no please keep complaining i love seeing the ranger victim compex come out from two randoms qq on forums its v entertaining

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’ll just say one thing. Any build that involved symbols is instantly dead because of the change, where it was only out performing other builds as a side noder due to the fact that the damage was better, not even sustain- many builds had monster sustain and disengage compared to guard. So if the damage is the only thing over performing just tweak those symbol modifiers and the damage for the accelerated burns. Now it will just mechanically awkward and even less viable than it is now.

It's just like the people who complain about Ranger. They don't play higher ratings and they don't make it to final rounds of ATs. If they did, they'd realize Core Guard wasn't even a problem to begin with.

Just another disparity of difference between how things perform bellow the bell curve & above, and how that effects forum discussion opinion of what needs to be fixed.

^ Everything always comes right back around to that.

its not really the same because symbols was a braindead build with way too much reward for effort even on high level (just not in organised 5v5)

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’ll just say one thing. Any build that involved symbols is instantly dead because of the change, where it was only out performing other builds as a side noder due to the fact that the damage was better, not even sustain- many builds had monster sustain and disengage compared to guard. So if the damage is the only thing over performing just tweak those symbol modifiers and the damage for the accelerated burns. Now it will just mechanically awkward and even less viable than it is now.

It's just like the people who complain about Ranger. They don't play higher ratings and they don't make it to final rounds of ATs. If they did, they'd realize Core Guard wasn't even a problem to begin with.

Just another disparity of difference between how things perform bellow the bell curve & above, and how that effects forum discussion opinion of what needs to be fixed.

^ Everything always comes right back around to that.

its not really the same because symbols was a braindead build with way too much reward for effort even on high level (just not in organised 5v5)

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