Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Writ of Persistence nerf took the rest of our damage and everyone will run now bunker builds


GuriGashi.5617

Recommended Posts

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Derm.4932 said:Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

That 'trash' symbol bunker was the only semi-viable build before nerf. Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then? Spamming traps?

i'm not about to argue with someone who thinks meditrapper/old core guard is on the same level of braindead as symbol spam. really not surprised you play symbol guard

How can you make assumptions on what I play or used to play? Also, what makes you think I'm talking about meditrapper and not full trap trapper rune dh, or any other trap dh version? Please, get your facts straight before assuming anything. Thanks.

your question was rhetorical. it wouldn't have mattered what I said because you actually believe symbol spam guard is not braindead. but since you insist that you were actually talking about full trapper dh, let me answer your question

Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then?

meditrapper/old core guard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Derm.4932 said:

@Derm.4932 said:Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

That 'trash' symbol bunker was the only semi-viable build before nerf. Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then? Spamming traps?

i'm not about to argue with someone who thinks meditrapper/old core guard is on the same level of braindead as symbol spam. really not surprised you play symbol guard

How can you make assumptions on what I play or used to play? Also, what makes you think I'm talking about meditrapper and not full trap trapper rune dh, or any other trap dh version? Please, get your facts straight before assuming anything. Thanks.

your question was rhetorical. it wouldn't have mattered what I said because you actually believe symbol spam guard is not braindead. but since you insist that you were actually talking about full trapper dh, let me answer your question

Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then?

meditrapper/old core guard

Yes sure. This is your personal opinion. Do one is objecting here. But don't be surprised if something that you like, may seem like 'brainless' to others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arken.3725 said:Y'all are going to hate me but I'm for this nerf. Symbol-based play is very boring and incredibly cancerous to fight against. With that being said, I don't approve of a straight-up nerf without a proper replacement.

As it stands, Honor is now pretty useless. This change reminds me of the old Staff auto change. Instead of implementing a proper change, they straight-up nerfed it without a proper replacement for months.

The issues go much deeper. When I look at sPvP as a whole, this does not even register. I will give examples.

Playing medi-trapper DH, LB+S/S, marauder. Temple, mid point, I get focused fire by 2 players. I run towards the temple, to get them behind me in a straight line, ToF, hit them both with DS, followed with TS. Great setup, good execution. Pay-off? 3-4K damage? This a lot of skilled game play that has no value. This same setup pre Feb patch would have dealt 11-12K.

Another example, core guardian, power, GS+S/S, marauder, 3 enemies chasing an ally, shield 5, shield 4 on ally. Symbol for blindness. Then switch to GS. GS 5, landed on all 3. Double the symbol with GS symbol over sword. Pull all 3 enemies. Land a full GS2 on all 3. Enemies made the mistake of ignoring me and not retaliating. I did a good execution to punish their mistakes. But again... no pay-off. 4-6K damage, that was nearly healed right away, and the managed to down the ally anyway. Now, before Feb that would still not dealt so much damage (but at least 50-60% more). If this was done before RI nerf, that would be instanced down to all 3 enemies. And they should. The made multiple mistakes in a row.

I know I digressed too much. The point is, I can go on and on about how the game punishes you now for trying to outsmart enemies. Or how good executions barely have any pay-offs. This is why the only game in town is tank and spam symbols or tank and spam burns. Is the nerf wrong? Not necessarily, but considering the symbol size, I honestly do not see it achieving much, especially in 1v1 situation. Yet everything else is completely ignored. Can I play a none spam build that works? No? This is why I look at changes like these as bull shit. They do not do or mean anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arken.3725 said:I'm not disagreeing with you, otto, I'm just pointing out that I am hoping this sets the stage for a potential mechanic overhaul to something more engaging. I know the issues you speak of and I agree, completely.

I agree with you that the nerf with the symbol was a good change, at least considering the current meta. I am just highly disappointed that nothing else was touched. This has been 14-15 weeks in the making patch, and... nothing. I am unsure if Anet is that out of touch or do not give a fuck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Playing PvP the last days and seeing our damage output is just a proof that the Skill team that works at ArenaNet have no idea what they are doing and probably 0 foresight about the effects of their balance patches. Well done in making the meta a unplayable bunker party. No Guard will ever play the offensive line Zeal anymore - why would they improve their Symbols when no one with a brain stands longer in them than half of a second?

What is left to do for us now? I tell you. Wait 4-6 months until the next balance patch in which ArenaNet might realize they have done a big f up and fix this issue. I wouldn't also be surprised if alot drop the class/game mode/game entirely. Playing since release I have to admit that PvP never was this frustrating. I probably was never this close to stop playing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@snoow.1694 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

The heal on writ of persistence was literally irrelevant. It was not what was sustaining symbol builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@snoow.1694 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

The heal on WOP was already nerfed hard in February. All you get is ~70ish hp per tick with menders amulet, which tbh isn't what sustains you. Also, I don't really see any place for guardian now since even if you try to go full bunker, you are still useless because you can't kill anything now so how are you going to decap / side node?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@snoow.1694 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

Except you don't know their agenda. There are lots of way to do lots of things ... why does it make sense to think by chance Anet would pick the thing you think they should do? None of this actually changes what I said here anyways. Anet's balancing is not something you or anyone else can 'predict' because you think you know some agenda or see some trend.

Honestly, you better get used to what you see happening here and expect it. Ask any veteran .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

Except you don't know their agenda. There are lots of way to do lots of things ... why does it make sense to think by chance Anet would pick the thing you think they should do? None of this actually changes what I said here anyways. Anet's balancing is not something you or anyone else can 'predict' because you think you know some agenda or see some trend.

Honestly, you better get used to what you see happening here and expect it. Ask any veteran .

Wait, wait, they have an agenda? I thought it was all random number generator. At least things in the PvE side are good. You are right in one respect though, you should not play guardian in PvP. There only 2 builds that always work, decapper thief and power herald. If I decide to play sPvP again, I will just play power herald. It has been meta since HoT was released.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arken.3725 said:That's the issue Buran, symbol-play was unfun and unhealthy for the game(pvp at least). You literally just spammed aoe's that were the same size at the points you were fighting on. Granted it wasn't the strongest(looks at holo), it was unhealthy and boring to use. This predicament stems from the problem that EVERY weapon has a symbol on it. With that, you're usually going to specialize into such a mechanic.

With the above-mentioned continuously getting nerfed(first the healing and then the size), the mechanic as a whole has been decimated. I feel like we should consider this a sign of a potential mechanic overhaul. Whether they completely redesign the mechanic and keep it the same across all weapons OR; each weapon now has their own unique skill(unclassified). I feel like the latter is less likely to happen as that would require them to redo EVERY trait that has to do with symbols.

You dont get it tho, its not like we loved the idea of playing symbols all the time. It was the only viable tool we had in spvp on higher ranks and now it was taken away woth 0 compensation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anet always do ridiculous nerfs and/or skill changes prior to a huge expansion so I'm sure there's a rhyme for their madness.

As for everyone saying Symbols was toxic on node play, it was one of the few things we had going for us Guardians on node contests. You are right in that it was somewhat ridiculous covering an entire node with a single symbol but our sluggish mobility needed that large symbol (albiet minor) sustains and damages in most team-fight situations. The large symbols balanced out our lack of mobility to an extent... I'm all for the symbol nerf as long as we get that needed "OOMPH" in the coming balance patches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Saiyan.1704" said:Anet always do ridiculous nerfs and/or skill changes prior to a huge expansion so I'm sure there's a rhyme for their madness.

As for everyone saying Symbols was toxic on node play, it was one of the few things we had going for us Guardians on node contests. You are right in that it was somewhat ridiculous covering an entire node with a single symbol but our sluggish mobility needed that large symbol (albiet minor) sustains and damages in most team-fight situations. The large symbols balanced out our lack of mobility to an extent... I'm all for the symbol nerf as long as we get that needed "OOMPH" in the coming balance patches.

Yes in the next balance patches after months of waiting and even then we don't know for sure if ArenaNet gives us some form of damage. Until then we are forced to run braindead full tank builds while Renegades are spamming AoE's that could cover 3 points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This change to writ is exactly what happened when ANET nerfed Chronomancers and Scourges with not having clones and themselves shatter or damage around them at the same time. Both professions were completely unviable in PvP for 1 year until the changes were reverted.

This was a huge oversight and lazy nerf that will remove firebrands from competing above gold 3 status.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guardian main that just came back to check out GW2 PvP again after a long hiatus. When I left Guardian was quite viable but by no means top tier in the meta... but apparently there was enough balance whine to somehow get symbols nerfed and leave Guards with almost no decent damage options. A shocking disappointment to say the least, there's not even a single PvP Guardian build on MetaBattle in the Great category. Guess I'll check back in a few months and see if they revert these lazy and unnecessary nerfs and play something else until then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to know why it was nerfed. Like it was barely felt like GM trait by GM trait standards... The only really useful thing on it was beeg sorcle. The heal is matters in .00001% of cases and the duration only matters if your opponent lost their turn to use the collective brain cell... Next thing you know, they're going to take it away entirely because aren't using it so instead of fixing a problem they'll delete it and give you a garbage tier GM trait instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@jpsssss.7530 said:I'd like to know why it was nerfed. Like it was barely felt like GM trait by GM trait standards... The only really useful thing on it was beeg sorcle. The heal is matters in .00001% of cases and the duration only matters if your opponent lost their turn to use the collective brain cell... Next thing you know, they're going to take it away entirely because aren't using it so instead of fixing a problem they'll delete it and give you a garbage tier GM trait instead.

A dev talk about it, he said that beacuse the traited version cover the whole node on pvp it has cero counterplay therefore it would be change. Meanwhile eles revs necros all cover the node do alot more dps and no getting touch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

@Arken.3725 said:Y'all are going to hate me but I'm for this nerf. Symbol-based play is very boring and incredibly cancerous to fight against. With that being said, I don't approve of a straight-up nerf without a proper replacement.

As it stands, Honor is now pretty useless. This change reminds me of the old Staff auto change. Instead of implementing a proper change, they straight-up nerfed it without a proper replacement for months.

Looks like Anet agrees. Seems like a very reasonable way to fix what you recognized was the truth about symbols.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Writ of Persistence has always been one of my favourite Traits in Guardian, if not the game altogether, despite any efficacy issues (good or bad), simply because it's one of those rare GM's which actually changes up a core mechanic of the profession, both in terms of gamplay and visually, like imo all GM's should do.

So just for that reason alone it's a shame to see it butchered like this, both with previous changes of nerfing the already meager heal, but now especially just seeing the Trait reduced to yet another bland and underwhelming modifier (+2sec duration), which I hope is a change that at least will never make it to the rest of the game.

As for people finding it unfun to play against or complaining about the radius covering too much ground, that's at least to me just as laughable as all the people who complained about old Scourge and it's AoE.When playing against those myself I never had any issue at all with the radius and kiting out of it for a moment nor found it unfun, and when playing those builds I realised it was pretty much mandatory to make use of Symbols and Shades at all to ever hit anything with them.

Small Shades and Symbols are just utterly useless for anything but CC lock/burst combos, and I was never a fan of that who can CC lock and burst whom quicker style of PvP - nor all the bunkers attempting to counter that, and much prefer the slower tactical game of positioning, rotating and focusing intelligently - in which AoE Traits and specs like that very much so have a place.

Woe anything on the ground which makes it so someone can't just jump onto anyone and execute a brain dead cc/burst combo, rather than having to think about and time their engagements.Plus people act like placing a big Symbol or big Shade on point makes it an instant death area, when really you can comfortably walk/dodge through the whole thing getting hit by like 1 burn/torment, and then either pressure ranged or pull/knock them out of their zone. But I guess that's too complex.These days it seems like everybody wants to play CC spamming near immortal perma evade/invul/block crap that never has to worry about any intelligent positioning whatsoever, as well as instantly being able to resustain from any mistakes somehow still made.Clearly some AoE's are the problem though..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...