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Instead Of Nerfing Firebrand We Buff Other Professions


Heisen.2315

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I've always pushed for fluid and fun combat over everything else. I'd be all aboard for nerfs so long as

  1. It does not result in making a class clunkier to play (Chrono's nerf)
  2. It does not lower the skill cap of the class (Soulbeast's nerf)
  3. It does not directly conflict with the design of the spec (Photonic Blasting Module + Overheat nerf)
  4. It does not completely delete the class from viability (Dps Herald nerf)

Anet does not do nerfs very well, so I tend to advocate against them. I'd rather they make content harder than make professions weaker.

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For max dps in this game, you need:

25 might (most classes can contribute)Fury. (Most classes can contribute)Quickness (chrononomancer or firebrand)Alacrity (chronomancer or renegade)Crit cap (Ranger spotter or Warrior banner of discipline)

I think if Quickness and Alacrity were more common, or if we had more unique buffs like the old grace of the land, we'd see more viable supports.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I think if Quickness and Alacrity were more common, or if we had more unique buffs like the old grace of the land, we'd see more viable supports.Correction. If we've had more buffs similar to the old grace of the land, we'd see more
required
supports.

And if those required supports are of different classes, designs and group utility, then I believe that is balanced.

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I think if Quickness and Alacrity were more common, or if we had more unique buffs like the old grace of the land, we'd see more viable supports.Correction. If we've had more buffs similar to the old grace of the land, we'd see more
required
supports.

And if those required supports are of different classes, designs and group utility, then I believe that is balanced.I don't consider a situation where in a meta there's a spot reserved for each class (with the last, 10th slot either also reserved, or being the only one where you have a choice) to be good. Even if in theory it might be "balanced".Remember, each unique buff that is desirable enough to be taken locks the meta even more. What we should be aiming for is to let players have
more
choices, not less.
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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I think if Quickness and Alacrity were more common, or if we had more unique buffs like the old grace of the land, we'd see more viable supports.Correction. If we've had more buffs similar to the old grace of the land, we'd see more
required
supports.

And if those required supports are of different classes, designs and group utility, then I believe that is balanced.I don't consider a situation where in a meta there's a spot reserved for each class (with the last, 10th slot either also reserved, or being the only one where you have a choice) to be good. Even if in theory it might be "balanced".Remember, each unique buff that is desirable enough to be taken locks the meta even more. What we should be aiming for is to let players have
more
choices, not less.

I think shoving GotL on druid would make it competitive, not only against its competitor the quickheal Firebrand, but also the classes DPS counterpart, the Soulbeast.

I think doubling or tripling aura times on Tempest would make auramancer competitive against its higher damage counterpart, the Weaver, and the community might finally see Elementalist healer as something other than a troll pick.

I'm really not seeing the lack of options here, unless your option is "hur dur, I'm a ranger so I don't use melee weapons, which is totally a build because Snowcrows use longbows in their raid builds".

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@"Westenev.5289" said:I think shoving GotL on druid would make it competitive, not only against its competitor the quickheal Firebrand, but also the classes DPS counterpart, the Soulbeast.Unique buffs can be divided in three categories: they are either worth sacrificing a slot for, are nice to have, but not very important, or are completely irrelevant.The second and third category do not impact the choice for the relevant slots all that much, but first category is a must have - it locks the slot in the meta for that build. Gotl was in that "obligatory" category. More of such buffs doesn't mean there's more choice, because those buffs are not intechangeable - you want all of them. So, every single one locks additional slot in the meta, and leaves one less slot for any kind of choice. That's not desirable.

In short, we want to have multiple competitive options for each slot. We don't want those options to become so good and so irreplaceable they become obligatory instead.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Westenev.5289" said:I think shoving GotL on druid would make it competitive, not only against its competitor the quickheal Firebrand, but also the classes DPS counterpart, the Soulbeast.Unique buffs can be divided in three categories: they are either worth sacrificing a slot for, are nice to have, but not very important, or are completely irrelevant.The second and third category do not impact the choice for the relevant slots all that much, but first category is a must have - it locks the slot in the meta for that build. Gotl was in that "obligatory" category. More of such buffs doesn't mean there's more choice, because those buffs are
not
intechangeable - you want
all
of them. So, every single one locks additional slot in the meta, and leaves one
less
slot for any kind of choice. That's not desirable.

In short, we want to have multiple competitive options for each slot. We don't want those options to become so good and so irreplaceable they become
obligatory
instead.

I think your point is rendered moot by most of the community, who will just play what they want to play regardless of "meta" or what is strong that patch. Me personally? I just want the bearbows and all of the other "original builds" people wish were viable to have the tools to (at the very least) complete content, or find a build or playstyle that works for them and their team.

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I think shoving GotL on druid would make it competitive, not only against its competitor the quickheal Firebrand, but also the classes DPS counterpart, the Soulbeast.Unique buffs can be divided in three categories: they are either worth sacrificing a slot for, are nice to have, but not very important, or are completely irrelevant.The second and third category do not impact the choice for the relevant slots all that much, but first category is a must have - it locks the slot in the meta for that build. Gotl was in that "obligatory" category. More of such buffs doesn't mean there's more choice, because those buffs are
not
intechangeable - you want
all
of them. So, every single one locks additional slot in the meta, and leaves one
less
slot for any kind of choice. That's not desirable.

In short, we want to have multiple competitive options for each slot. We don't want those options to become so good and so irreplaceable they become
obligatory
instead.

I think your point is rendered moot by most of the community, who will just play what they want to play regardless of "meta" or what is strong that patch. Me personally? I just want the bearbows and all of the other "original builds" people wish were viable to have the tools to (at the very least) complete content, or find a build or playstyle that works for them and their team.

Bearbow was only meta open world tho it also kept ranger out of dungeon prehot

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@"Westenev.5289" said:I think your point is rendered moot by most of the community, who will just play what they want to play regardless of "meta" or what is strong that patch.Only because most of the community sticks to open world and simply doesn't do any content where it would matter. In open world competiveness is irrelevant for the most part, people already are playing whatever they want, no matter how inefficient (or plain bad) it is. Inside more demanding content like raids however the meta, as far as the support is concerned, is very strict.No matter how casual a raid run, you will have quickness and alacity covered. You will also have a banner warrior with a secured place. Old GotL was a boon on the same rating as banners. Before it was changed into might generator, there was absolutely no possibility of having any other healer than druid.

DPS slots are interchangeable and actually competitive (to a degree) because dps itself is not a class-unique feature. Support however is interchangeable only as far as it still gives the same set of boons. The more of those boons are class-unique, the less flexible that overall interchangeability gets.

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I think if Quickness and Alacrity were more common, or if we had more unique buffs like the old grace of the land, we'd see more viable supports.Correction. If we've had more buffs similar to the old grace of the land, we'd see more
required
supports.

And if those required supports are of different classes, designs and group utility, then I believe that is balanced.I don't consider a situation where in a meta there's a spot reserved for each class (with the last, 10th slot either also reserved, or being the only one where you have a choice) to be good. Even if in theory it might be "balanced".Remember, each unique buff that is desirable enough to be taken locks the meta even more. What we should be aiming for is to let players have
more
choices, not less.

I think shoving GotL on druid would make it competitive, not only against its competitor the quickheal Firebrand, but also the classes DPS counterpart, the Soulbeast.

I think doubling or tripling aura times on Tempest would make auramancer competitive against its higher damage counterpart, the Weaver, and the community might finally see Elementalist healer as something other than a troll pick.

I'm really not seeing the lack of options here, unless your option is "hur dur, I'm a ranger so I don't use melee weapons, which is totally a build because Snowcrows use longbows in their raid builds".

Making Druid competitive where? Organised 5 man content?The thing is Druid already is the uncontested Meta pick for 10 man content since 5 years straight, locking out all alternatives, unless run as second healer in an offheal capacity.GotL, both it's current and old version, have been a large reason for that, along with Spotter, Spirits etc.

Buffing it in a way where it would be dominant even in 5 man scenarios would just further widen the gap it's already ahead by in 10 man scenarios.

Unique group damage buffs (and 10 man target caps) are a fairly dangerous balance game, especially on supports.

Also Heal Tempest is hardly a "troll pick", and as the PvP meta has shown, Tempest is by far the strongest support in the game right now in terms of, well, actual support.It just lacks damage increases like Quickness/Alacrity compared to Ren/FB and Spirits/Spotter compared to Druid, while it's more powerful support simply is overkill for PvE.

@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I think shoving GotL on druid would make it competitive, not only against its competitor the quickheal Firebrand, but also the classes DPS counterpart, the Soulbeast.Unique buffs can be divided in three categories: they are either worth sacrificing a slot for, are nice to have, but not very important, or are completely irrelevant.The second and third category do not impact the choice for the relevant slots all that much, but first category is a must have - it locks the slot in the meta for that build. Gotl was in that "obligatory" category. More of such buffs doesn't mean there's more choice, because those buffs are
not
intechangeable - you want
all
of them. So, every single one locks additional slot in the meta, and leaves one
less
slot for any kind of choice. That's not desirable.

In short, we want to have multiple competitive options for each slot. We don't want those options to become so good and so irreplaceable they become
obligatory
instead.

I think your point is rendered moot by most of the community, who will just play what they want to play regardless of "meta" or what is strong that patch.

Do they though? Speaking of 5 man content/Fractals, Tempest + Chrono for example is perfectly viable for that content, including CM's. I don't think I've ever seen it looked for in LFG though because it's not Meta. Same with the old Druid + Chrono which can still clear all the content fine as well. Or Alac Chrono + Firebrand, or Boon (Quickness) Chrono + Renegade.

Most of the community, as far as I'm aware, exclusively plays what's Meta (in content where it's at all relevant).

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