Balance Suggestions - Revenant

[Tayga.3192]

@Buran.3796 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

Hammer

Drop The Hammer - Knockdown increased to 3 seconds.

A 1.75 second cast is among the longest in the game. Increasing the stun duration so that the reward is appropriate to the amount of risk.

Why? Still will remain useless. Hammer just need to be replaced.

Not in WvW

[Ragnar.4257]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Strider.7849 said:Nice suggestions, I have one concern with unrelenting assault latch range though, I think 1200 might be a bit too much on rev considering synergy with legend swap/impossible odds etc. I think 900 range would be perfect and reducing the windup time to not be so reliant on quickness.

You have a good point. 1200 range would make the skill unecessarily sticky. 900 should be enough to make it consistent without being overbearing.

unrelenting is already overbearing, boo hoo you have to be in range to use a skill, what a weird thing

Controversial thought, I know, but I don't think buggy behavior is a good way to balance a skill.

whats so buggy about it? enemy leaves its cast range and it does nothing. many skills do that.and since the skill itself is OP as kitten already it needs no buffs in the first place

Any other targeted port if cast within range will port you to your target or, if the target moves out of range, it will port you closer to your target. Unrelenting Assault is the only port which exhibits this behavior where it frequently fizzle out. Not even smoke assault has this issue. `

Moreover, this skill is prone to fizzling even when the opponent

is within range

, but when it chooses to do so can seem arbitrary at times. I've noticed it most when attempting to hit someone who is on slightly uneven ground.

If you read the goal of this thread, the point is not explicitly buffs, but rather fixing clunky or buggy behavior. It is within reason for a player to expect their skill to behave as expected under normal circumstances.

In this instance, you cast Unrelenting Assault at near max range. You attempt to evade a skill during the windup, moving your character ever so slightly out of that 600 unit distance. Your skill appears to bug out and plays out the animation while hitting nothing.

By buffing the latch range to 900 (even 750 would be a reasonable buffer) it gives the player room to kite around the opponents abilities without their skill fizzling, removing unnecessary clunk.

Naturally, this does end up buffing the skill, but that is the case, you can offset the buff in other ways, such as reducing the might duration from 3 seconds to 1 in PvP, reducing the coefficient, ect.

I understand bias against Rev given their near-permanent status in the meta, but assuming the skill behaves this way by design, balancing a skill through clunky, unintuitive behavior is not good design in my opinion.

So let's say this goes through.

In 6 months time you'll be complaining that it fizzles against enemies which were 890 range and moved to 910 range.

So it gets buffed again to 1200 range.

6 months later you'll be complaining that it fizzles against enemies which were 1190 range and moved to 1210 range.

So it gets buffed again to 1500 range........

ad infinitum.

Yay for addressing the symptom and not the cause!

The actual solution would seem to me to put it on interrupt, not full, cooldown if it fizzles, and refund the energy cost. Assuming no buggy interactions, 600 range is already very generous.

Shiro-Rev being able to Phase Traverse + Unrelenting Assault from 2400 units away, with unblockable, quickness, uninterruptiple, evading damage, is the most ludicrously OP thing I've ever heard suggested.

[Kuma.1503]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Strider.7849 said:Nice suggestions, I have one concern with unrelenting assault latch range though, I think 1200 might be a bit too much on rev considering synergy with legend swap/impossible odds etc. I think 900 range would be perfect and reducing the windup time to not be so reliant on quickness.

You have a good point. 1200 range would make the skill unecessarily sticky. 900 should be enough to make it consistent without being overbearing.

unrelenting is already overbearing, boo hoo you have to be in range to use a skill, what a weird thing

Controversial thought, I know, but I don't think buggy behavior is a good way to balance a skill.

whats so buggy about it? enemy leaves its cast range and it does nothing. many skills do that.and since the skill itself is OP as kitten already it needs no buffs in the first place

Any other targeted port if cast within range will port you to your target or, if the target moves out of range, it will port you closer to your target. Unrelenting Assault is the only port which exhibits this behavior where it frequently fizzle out. Not even smoke assault has this issue. `

Moreover, this skill is prone to fizzling even when the opponent

is within range

, but when it chooses to do so can seem arbitrary at times. I've noticed it most when attempting to hit someone who is on slightly uneven ground.

If you read the goal of this thread, the point is not explicitly buffs, but rather fixing clunky or buggy behavior. It is within reason for a player to expect their skill to behave as expected under normal circumstances.

In this instance, you cast Unrelenting Assault at near max range. You attempt to evade a skill during the windup, moving your character ever so slightly out of that 600 unit distance. Your skill appears to bug out and plays out the animation while hitting nothing.

By buffing the latch range to 900 (even 750 would be a reasonable buffer) it gives the player room to kite around the opponents abilities without their skill fizzling, removing unnecessary clunk.

Naturally, this does end up buffing the skill, but that is the case, you can offset the buff in other ways, such as reducing the might duration from 3 seconds to 1 in PvP, reducing the coefficient, ect.

I understand bias against Rev given their near-permanent status in the meta, but assuming the skill behaves this way by design, balancing a skill through clunky, unintuitive behavior is not good design in my opinion.

So let's say this goes through.

In 6 months time you'll be complaining that it fizzles against enemies which were 890 range and moved to 910 range.

So it gets buffed again to 1200 range.

6 months later you'll be complaining that it fizzles against enemies which were 1190 range and moved to 1210 range.

So it gets buffed again to 1500 range........

ad infinitum.

Yay for addressing the symptom and not the cause!

The actual solution would seem to me to put it on interrupt, not full, cooldown if it fizzles, and refund the energy cost. Assuming no buggy interactions, 600 range is already very generous.

Shiro-Rev being able to Phase Traverse + Unrelenting Assault from 2400 units away, with unblockable, quickness, uninterruptiple, evading damage, is the most ludicrously OP thing I've ever heard suggested.

It's highly unlikely that it would work that way in practice. The purpose of this change is to allow the Rev the ability to space themselves out of immediate danger during the wind up.

900, or even 750 range would be more than sufficient to prevent fizzling under these circumstances due to the fact that the initial cast range is still 600. Lets say you buffed the latch range to as little as 750. You would have to move 150 units away from your target during the brief windup in order to cause it to fizzle, and at that point it would be the fault of the player for overstepping the amount of wiggle room granted by the skill. Currently, the skill grants no wiggle room at all if cast at maximum range. Want to stay in range, but don't want to path directly into a darkrazer's daring, DH trap, ect. (which would interrupt the cast anyway)? You're out of luck.

What's more is that it would not remove counterplay. If you notice a rev attempting to use UA as a gapcloser, any tiny blink or dash (even a Jault) would allow you to break the tether.

At 1500 range, nothing short of your opponent shadowstepping 901 units away would cause a fizzle... If anyone complains at that point, their goal isn't improved fluidity of combat, they want Rev to be god mode.

[Vancho.8750]

I think Unrelenting assault should be AoE circle ability where the rev teleports on the location and starts jumping around the targets in the circle. All these long dodge attack skills are bullshit to me, one is attacking while the other can do fuck all about it is kinda dumb, everyone should have equal opportunity to punch each other.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Vancho.8750 said:I think Unrelenting assault should be AoE circle ability where the rev teleports on the location and starts jumping around the targets in the circle. All these long dodge attack skills are kitten to me, one is attacking while the other can do kitten all about it is kinda dumb, everyone should have equal opportunity to punch each other.

The counter to these skills are barriers like Spectral Wall, Line of Warding, etc. These skills yoink you from your dodge skills.

[NotFound.7813]

@Fueki.4753 said:Imo, Revenant only needs four design fixes:The shortbow AoE being cast-able in 360° around me.The Renegade stun break not being ground-targetted, but instantly popping on my position.Surge of The Mists needs to lose that garbage wind-up.Coalescence of Ruin needs to be enemy-targetted again.

Staff5 rework was a nice change , there shouldnt be insta stuns , staff 5 is defensive tool .