Home Instance Boost

[basil.9532]

It would be pretty nice if you guys at ANET considered upgrading most if not all of the nodes in the home instance.They cost so much gold and real life money to get that it would quite literally take several years to just recoup the amount of money/gold invested. Meaning, it isn't really worth it. But many players have done so anyways, including me.Would it be possible to make most of the nodes, if not all of the nodes more like the ones in a guild instance? Not to mention, doing this would also make purchasing upgrades more worthwhile and desirable.

[Solvar.7953]

This seems unlikely to happen - it suddenly gives everyone a free boost, increasing those materials more.But as you note, lots of people have already bought the home instance nodes - thus, the price must be reasonable, otherwise folks would not have done so. If a tiny majority of players bought them, then a case could be made that by either lowering the price or increasing what they give, Anet could make more money by selling more of them.The few times I have done calculations, it is quite a while to get payback (usually about 1 year), which is probably reasonable - it should be seen as long term commitment.

[basil.9532]

I hear your response all the time by people who can't do math.It takes far more than a year to remake what you invest in the vast majority of home items.And no duh it would give everyone a boost, that is what I said... I didn't say, just me. I said boost the nodes in home instances.Also... A tiny majority?... I think you mean minority?................Making the home items more worthwhile will make them more appealing to more people.It took me over 7 years to finally sink gold and money into it all because I figured meh, why not.It's not like I really enjoy having it... The benefit is absolutely minuscule. It evokes no emotions other than, "sigh, going to the home instance again.... zzz"At least when I go to the guild nodes, it feels better.I get you have your opinion, and you and almost everyone else say "it's a long term investment" .... sure... if you gather from the home instance every day for 5 years, you may start making a return on your investment...But my opinion, as stated above, is that a 5 year+ investment on a video game home instance that means absolutely nothing is a huge waste... You can farm so much more efficiently just by going to the maps themselves and hitting the nodes on them and hitting the known farm spots for the more expensive materials.The home instance is just unremarkable and should feel nicer. From a psychological standpoint and from an investment standpoint. Otherwise, it feels like you're going into a back ally and through a side door to visit a meh place.Either some of the nodes, or all of the nodes need a boost to be more like the nodes in a guild hall, or like the king sized candy-cane node. Make the minerals rich gathering nodes, make the trees like rich nodes.

[basil.9532]

You know, even creating some achievements or collections associated with the home instance would be really cool. Like, make a quest chain from a mysterious visitor to your home instance or something. Anything. It just seems dull. idk

[leila.7962]

All that I would care about on home instance nodes would be an update so players could place them wherever they wanted (like a guild hall decoration), instead of spreading them all over the place.. it would be neat to have them all balled up at the door ready to be gathered :3

[basil.9532]

@leila.7962 said:All that I would care about on home instance nodes would be an update so players could place them wherever they wanted (like a guild hall decoration), instead of spreading them all over the place.. it would be neat to have them all balled up at the door ready to be gathered :3

That would be really nice too. Being able to do that but even decorating your home may be fun. I know a lot of RP players / guilds would love to decorate a home. Maybe even get a whole squad in the home instance. lol idk I just feel like the home instance needs more to it or some of the nodes need to be boosted or w.e. Anything would be cool.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"basil.9532" said:I hear your response all the time by people who can't do math.

It's the opposite, some people did do the math in the past, and decided that the investment and timeframe works for them (and some are just completionists and enjoy having a "finished" home instance).

You either did not do the math in the past, and/or decided against the longterm investment. That's on you and does not need addressing.

The price of the home instance items which are trade-able on the trading post are valued the way they are BECAUSE of the time-frame it takes to recuperate the investment. If home instance nodes suddenly became more profitable, the prices would skyrocket. Net result: the investment takes just as long to return, only everything is more expensive.

The home instance nodes which are Black Lion Gem purchases, as well as living world season items are priced the same way, only that the devs put the price. The timeframe here is roughly again 1-2 years for amortisation. If the devs wanted these nodes to be more profitable or cheaper, they would have offered/designed them that way.

[Solvar.7953]

Note also that if they produce more, that results in more materials being available, which would likely decrease the value of those materials some, which then lengthens the payout again.How much probably depends on the material - some are easily farmable in large numbers, others not so much.Also, there are lots of items that have no value - any skin for example - it looks nice, but beyond that, is not worth anything. Home instance probably fall somewhere in between - they have some value, but maybe not as much as they charge. Some folks may buy them just because they like the idea of getting those resources every day, not because it makes financial sense.

[Zaklex.6308]

@"basil.9532" said:I hear your response all the time by people who can't do math.It takes far more than a year to remake what you invest in the vast majority of home items.And no duh it would give everyone a boost, that is what I said... I didn't say, just me. I said boost the nodes in home instances.Also... A tiny majority?... I think you mean minority?................Making the home items more worthwhile will make them more appealing to more people.It took me over 7 years to finally sink gold and money into it all because I figured meh, why not.It's not like I really enjoy having it... The benefit is absolutely minuscule. It evokes no emotions other than, "sigh, going to the home instance again.... zzz"At least when I go to the guild nodes, it feels better.I get you have your opinion, and you and almost everyone else say "it's a long term investment" .... sure... if you gather from the home instance every day for 5 years, you may start making a return on your investment...But my opinion, as stated above, is that a 5 year+ investment on a video game home instance that means absolutely nothing is a huge waste... You can farm so much more efficiently just by going to the maps themselves and hitting the nodes on them and hitting the known farm spots for the more expensive materials.The home instance is just unremarkable and should feel nicer. From a psychological standpoint and from an investment standpoint. Otherwise, it feels like you're going into a back ally and through a side door to visit a meh place.Either some of the nodes, or all of the nodes need a boost to be more like the nodes in a guild hall, or like the king sized candy-cane node. Make the minerals rich gathering nodes, make the trees like rich nodes.

People have actually taken the time to determine the rate of return on the Home Instance Nodes, that point at which you either break even or start to make a profit...it's been a while but I doubt if the math has changed much and you're both wrong. It takes longer than a year but no where near 5 years of gathering every day...and if you're really smart you never have to pay real money for any of them...in which case you don't have to worry about getting your money's worth.

[Daddicus.6128]

It turns out I am running out of things to spend those currencies on. I have ascended trinkets on all my twenty-seven characters now. So, I would like to request that they add more things to buy, like minis or novelties.

But, I also support your thoughts in principle. I think there should be a cost though. The candy corn node is a great example. Get the basic one for one set of actions, and get the larger one for another set. Collections (or other sets of actions) with upgraded nodes as the reward would be a welcome addition.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I don't really have a problem with their value but they need to be available in Sun's Refuge/HoM so they're not all in weird places. The Home Instance is a kind of bad design that is further biased the race you are (e.g Asura have the best layout, while Humans have Merchants).

Its a chore to gather a full Home Instance mainly because of trying to find everything, especially for new players. I spent years building up a full home so that my guild could profit but in the long term people just became exhausted of mining it every day and would rather just go without the resources, which isn't an uncommon sentiment I think due to the lackluster planning & implementation.

The weird thing is the placement seems quite haphazard, e.g sometimes you'll find a stack of nodes all conveniently placed together, and other times very similar nodes are on opposite sides of the map for no reason (LW nodes are bad about this).

[Linken.6345]

@Hannelore.8153 said:I don't really have a problem with their value but they need to be available in Sun's Refuge/HoM so they're not all in weird places. The Home Instance is a kind of bad design that is further biased the race you are (e.g Asura have the best layout, while Humans have Merchants).

Its a chore to gather a full Home Instance mainly because of trying to find everything, especially for new players. I spent years building up a full home so that my guild could profit but in the long term people just became exhausted of mining it every day and would rather just go without the resources, which isn't an uncommon sentiment I think due to the lackluster planning & implementation.

The weird thing is the placement seems quite haphazard, e.g sometimes you'll find a stack of nodes all conveniently placed together, and other times very similar nodes are on opposite sides of the map for no reason (LW nodes are bad about this).

You know you can get the asura home instance with any race right just have to enter it from rata sum with all characters.

[basil.9532]

I think it is safe to say that the majority of people would like to see at least something new done with the home instance.

[Shena Fu.5792]

the overthinking on ROI based on gold to gem exchange is ridiculous. just spend 1 hour of real life wages to pay for it, and your ROI is immediately compensated.

that's why complaining about buying it from TP for thousands of gold is stupid. the gold to gems exchange is obviously rigged for the richer players with more ingame gold. if you're poor ingame, obviously the ROI based on gold to gem exchange is never in your favor.

[Cyninja.2954]

@basil.9532 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@basil.9532 said:I hear your response all the time by people who can't do math.

It's the opposite, some people did do the math in the past, and decided that the investment and timeframe works for them (and some are just completionists and enjoy having a "finished" home instance).

You either did not do the math in the past, and/or decided against the longterm investment. That's on you and does not need addressing.

The price of the home instance items which are trade-able on the trading post are valued the way they are BECAUSE of the time-frame it takes to recuperate the investment. If home instance nodes suddenly became more profitable, the prices would skyrocket. Net result: the investment takes just as long to return, only everything is more expensive.

The home instance nodes which are Black Lion Gem purchases, as well as living world season items are priced the same way, only that the devs put the price. The timeframe here is roughly again 1-2 years for amortisation. If the devs wanted these nodes to be more profitable or cheaper, they would have offered/designed them that way.

Lotus Root node = 58gLotus Root = post for sale at 14c each41,428 days / 113.5 years to break even

Mithril node = 103gMithril Ore = post for sale at 38c each (x3 a day = 1s 24c)8,306 days / 22.7 years to break even

Elder Wood Logging Node = 107gElder Wood Log = post for sale at 1s 11c each (lets say you average 3 a day = 3s 33c)3,213 days / 8.8 years to break even

Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node = 63gGhost Pepper = post for sale at 5s 8c1,240 days / 3.3 years to break even

You are right, it is not 5 years. I gave the average to break even a very conservative guess.But seeing as you yourself are too lazy to do the math yourself, I have to waste my time sitting here doing basic elementary math for you just to prove my pointand get exact numbers. I took the least valuable node and then the next two most popular and the most valuable as far as I know. The average ends up being much higher than 5 years.

Mic Drop

Tired of people who talk out their butts as if they are the authority on stuff before actually taking the time to verify something.

You do understand that the nodes you selected are offering items without value. The value they hold is due to forced minimum value. The nodes literally hold value for collectors and no value as resource provider in the game economy.

All the other nodes, like the Ghost Pepper Node or Elder Wood Logging Node or the Iron Node actually provide resources desired by the games economy (and you also can't just use sell orders but actually have to use buy orders for purchase and sell orders for value, because those are the 2 values which do not take a premium cut from players, which again reduces a transaction).

Now if you also spent some minor time on basic research and looked up WHEN the specific nodes where available the last time to the games economy via Black Lion Chests, you will soon discover that the prices of some nodes drop as much as 40-50% WHEN they are in Black Lion chests (and thus get added to the games economy).

If you factor for all of those things, you'll soon realize that yes, the time frames are sub 5 years a lot and close to 2-3 years.

If you then realized that my 1-2 year time frame was placed with Living World Season nodes, for which calculation are available how much Unbound Magic and Volatile Magic converts to and thus how long it takes for those node to return their cost, you'd realize that those come to around 2 years.

Let's calculate that for Blood Rubys and their respective node:The node costs 10,000 UM and 50 gold.Yields 3 Rubies per day, which results in 75-150 Unbound MagicUnbound Magic is valued at 15-17 copper per 1 UM

For the node to fully recuperate its cost it would take [10,000/75+ 50,00,00/(15 75) = 133 days + 444 days = 577 days at the bottom end.and [10,000/150+ 50,00,00/(15 150) = 66 days + 222 days = 288 days at the top end.

EDIT: btw, I could have done this calculation with Orrian Pearls and their respective node, which results in 135 UM and 270 UM per day, which cuts these times even further.

So next time, before you self mic drop, do some more research.

TL;DR:Nodes are fine and have been fine for years. Similar to Infinite Mining Tools, Salvage-O-Matics and similar items, they provide convenience for an upfront cost with future return of varying degree (that Copper-Fed-Salvage-O-Matic which saves you .52 copper per salvage will take multiple years to recuperate the cost, yet it's one of THE best convenience items to have). Every player gets to chose IF they want to put up the upfront costs or not.

[Solvar.7953]

One I remember doing the math for is the sprocket generator - 15 gold + 25 laurels. Based on GW2 efficiency, laurel is worth slightly less than one could, so that costs 40 gold. It generates 6-12 sprockets (lets average to 9), and sprockets are worth 2.18, so we'll round that up slightly to 20 silver/day on that.40 gold (4000 silver) / 20 = 200 days for payback.There are problems with some materials not having any worth, and thus a node that generates them also has no value. I'd argue that is more an issue with the material than the node - just because I gather in hidden garden, several of the things gathered there are not worth anything more than merchant value because there is no desired food recipe that uses them. I find it sort of out that one has to make something out of them before you can compost them for ascended foods - my personal experience is non processed vegetable scraps turn into compost than ones that have been baked into things.

[kratan.4619]

Home nodes are not about an "investment" they are only a QOL thing, now I do not need to go farm up a bunch of platinum ore, because my bank is full because I just harvest mine each day. I did not get the nodes to become some kind of crafting material tycoon.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

One perk of Home Instance Nodes is when Daily Gathering is in one of the Core Regions.

[ScyeRynn.4218]

Get rid of the nodes. Give us personal housing. Fully customizable. Our own little guild hall with boosts and things we can earn and display.

[thehipone.6812]

Start thinking of them more like cosmetics, a “collection”, or minor qol items and not in terms of an “investment”. They’re for fun and a bit of convenience. And besides, if they buffed the output to make it a super return on investment then everyone would buy it, either driving up the price of the tp sellable ones or driving down the price of the output, thereby making it no longer “good investment” and the cycle starts again.

[AsDark.3526]

@"thehipone.6812" said:Start thinking of them more like cosmetics, a “collection”, or minor qol items and not in terms of an “investment”. They’re for fun and a bit of convenience. And besides, if they buffed the output to make it a super return on investment then everyone would buy it, either driving up the price of the tp sellable ones or driving down the price of the output, thereby making it no longer “good investment” and the cycle starts again.

I believe that's the point the basil.9532 is making. They are such a luxury item with such a twisted name. It feels less like a home than the guild hall. I know the value of the items would drop if they upped the amount of mats each node gave, but as aforementioned, there could be achievements to it. Hell they have achievements for in-game titles and royal flame weapons etc. which serve no purpose, but there is no achievement on nodes. A collection achievement as well as a way to customize your nodes is an update years overdue. The new LW episodes in GW2 are so genius, their meta events and their currency are so captivating most times, then you have a system like the home instance that could benefit with more customization and "warmth" but...nada.They are tedious, locked behind a loading screen, and it doesn't feel like MY home, especially when it looks like the home instance of every player in the world.Most used words in this post, from both people that agree and those who disagree, are "Long term investment", "nodes", "more" and "chore".People clearly don't want to water down the value of their wallet, or of materials, but they want something "more"(achievements or collections would be a start) and it obviously feels like a "chore" especially for Charr and sylvari Home instances.

[Plok.5873]

Just let us upgrade our HI nodes as we already can with the _King-Sized Candy Corn_.

Maybe, as an intermediate undertaking, port the guild hall decoration system to home instances. After all, the features are already part of the engine.

I feel my HI would greatly win "emotional value" if I could put up some chairs, book shelves, a bed and then get some minor Rested bonus if I log a character there.

[Danikat.8537]

@Solvar.7953 said:Note also that if they produce more, that results in more materials being available, which would likely decrease the value of those materials some, which then lengthens the payout again.How much probably depends on the material - some are easily farmable in large numbers, others not so much.Also, there are lots of items that have no value - any skin for example - it looks nice, but beyond that, is not worth anything. Home instance probably fall somewhere in between - they have some value, but maybe not as much as they charge. Some folks may buy them just because they like the idea of getting those resources every day, not because it makes financial sense.

That's exactly what I was going to say. If you increase the drop rate from home instance nodes it wouldn't actually help you pay off the node any faster because the increase in supply will cause the prices of all those materials to drop, so you're selling more but for less profit per item. Admittedly there's some materials which can't drop much/any further because they're already at vendor value, but even then flooding the market with even more won't help make them valuable.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

I have a couple for winterberries and primoridis orchard and every now and again I can go and buy an ascended trinket or backpack if I need one. I am starting to collect them all myself because I loved just going into other people’s full instance and they had a lot of cool stuff in it. The more I can gather means more unbound or volatile magic I collect daily, which I use A LOT. I want to go for completion also. And when new LW episodes come out I can be ready to buy up whatever new node comes out too.

[Haaznahnuff.1907]

I think home instances should be polished on several points. I understand that they are not like private housings from a RP point of view (although technically, yes), but they are, or rather they should be, a strong bind, if not the only one, to the origin and the personal story for the played character. Granted, perhaps a majority of players wouldn't care about any boost of their home instance, but if it's feasible, and it won't overload servers and PCs, why postponing the overhaul?

1. Characters from the personal story should be more lively, with actual dialogues (it's a pity they are mute for the most part). Periodic updates could even make them useful to provide hints about the Living World: instead of having to talk to a new NPC at Lion's Arch, we could be directed toward our home instance to talk again to that old comrade, for example. It's a pity to look at Caith at the Dreamer's Terrace, standing before what could be her office / room, with no interaction, no utility, and no occupation, when the most basic NPCs without dialogue may have a wandering path and animations programmed in the city out of the instance. The fire shaman from the charr story is idling and salute you as the last of strangers, whereas he is your father! What is needed here is like the content of a whole Renowned Hearth area, I guess.
2. Character's feats and story should be remembered. Do players get the feeling they are high ranking in their own cultural city? There could be salutations, off voices when the character is passing by, an office or a room, or even a single couch (for those who live collectively, such as Norns and Charrs) for the most praised of heroes... Why are the played characters saluted by guards near the portal at Ebonheart, and not in their home instances? Likewise, if a group of played characters meet in the home instance of one of them, they would all be considered as heroes and saviours, without forgetting the usual racial prejudice in the NPCs' words, though.
3. A new NPC, an intendant, could allow the player to custom this not-private-yet-instanced area. He could sell decorations and features, and repack those that have been installed, so that the player could install them elsewhere. Resource nodes could be repacked this way, so that the player can correct any "silly" spawning. This would also be a way to pay for this overhaul (or else, through an expansion).
4. The whole instance would be an opportunity for having a bit of city of the highest quality, that we cannot have for the whole city for obvious reasons. Some home instances are currently more developed than others; Dreamer's Terrace, although beautiful and pleasant, has far less activity than Hero's Canton, for instance, although it should be the second most important place of the Grove, after the Pale Tree, the place where Protectors rest and gather (and all played heroes as well). The same could be said about the other instances, even if cultural differences are welcome (for instance, the fact that the Charrs are more numerous in their "heroes" instance).
5. One possibility to populate those home instances could be to place new NPCs who would stand at the place a played character would have stood should they had chosen another path in their early personal story. These NPCs, although never (?) encountered outside of the instance, would make players feel like they are not the only one champion of their race and beloved capital city, even if they are the best one. For instance, if you play a Sylvari from the Dawn, there would be a NPC from the Dusk, etc. If you play a Human with the commoner origin, you could meet another rising hero hanging around the orphanage, and another one in a noble estate. And why not, they could eventually meet at the commoner's tavern from time to time, exchanging words about the Living World, and on-going festivals..

TLdR: Instead of being like half-dead back rooms, home instances should be like their names just sound, like fully fleshed, all-heroes headquarters (of course, only one of them being played).