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Epidemic of rangers and thieves in WvW


manu.7539

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The most used class (at least in T1) these days are probably thieves and rangers. There's some good reasons for that.. rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kill u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver.. it happens to me quite often! Thieves.. are thieves, no need to explain how annoying they are! ANET devs must be aware of all that but they obviously doesnt care! How did they manage to build such a nice game but then ruined it with such a bad balance! Money talk I guess, I dont feel like ANET is worthy of my money anymore! Why should I care for a company who doesnt care about their custumers?!?

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

Idk sir, this one is highly debated by many people to be a fact.

I think the epidemic is Condition bursts in general.I don't think any sort of build should be allowed the power to rapidly stack Conditions in the span of 1.5 seconds, and allowing the DoTs to tick off for around 5k damage total per tick.

Even if the target is quick to react, barring the existence of control skills like Daze, Stun, Taunt etc, they are gonna eat that 5k minimum before they cleanse it all off, in which the damage has been done, a heal has been forced, and the Condi player just backs off till they burst again.

If yu get controlled, well..... it's gonna put yu at 30% hp easily.

That's like the equivalent of a Revenant 2 years ago with 25 might stacks autoing someone to death with 5k per auto.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:So... lemme see here...

You run low health, light armor class and:

  • Ranger kills you = game bad

  • Thief kills you = game bad.

Got it..

Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

Convincing argument.

Ok so lets all play thieves or rangers, is it your argument? I'm a main ele since gw1 and well, I'll stick on it even if eles are not so popular in wvw. I hoped that weaver was to bring some fun to eles and it did but ANET nerfed it alot in the past 2 years. So yeah, I'm raging to see some class ruling wvw with easy skills as I play piano and destroy my keyboard to survive or to do some little damage!

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@manu.7539 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So... lemme see here...

You run low health, light armor class and:
  • Ranger kills you = game bad
  • Thief kills you = game bad.

Got it..

Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

Convincing argument.

Ok so lets all play thieves or rangers, is it your argument? I'm a main ele since gw1 and well, I'll stick on it even if eles are not so popular in wvw. I hoped that weaver was to bring some fun to eles and it did but ANET nerfed it alot in the past 2 years. So yeah, I'm raging to see some class ruling wvw with easy skills as I play piano and destroy my keyboard to survive or to do some little damage!I'm not sure that Strider disagrees with your notion of balance, I think he just pointed out the quality of your post, especially when creating a new thread on a known topic.

I think it's a fair point to argue how balance impacts profileration of classes. The two classes in question are also becomming more popular. However, their overall popularity is rather different. The reasons for why they are becomming more popular are rather different and a profileration of Tower Rangers is most likely not it (in the Ranger's case it's far more likely a combination of better melee-balance, which can be a positive, and the pretty abusive imob/condi builds sprouting up more and more, which is a problem). Tower Rangers may be getting more popular as well as more and more players drift towards casual cowardice as content plummets (eg., more sniping from towers when there are less groups resetting towers). I'm not sure that is as much of a balance issue though, even if the behaviour can be frowned at.

It would have been much better to make some grounded comments like that, if you wanted to create a thread.

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@subversiontwo.7501 said:

I'm not sure that Strider disagrees with your notion of balance, I think he just pointed out the quality of your post, especially when creating a new thread on a known topic.

Its a known topic, exactly, so known I cant stay grounded as you advise, its too frustrating to see that ANET being so unfair for some class (eles in particular) and so permissive with others.

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Thief and Ranger can counter certain builds/classes more than others. Its part of the game. They are still weak to Immobilize and CC spam. They are also fun to play.

If you keep coming across certain builds/comps you have to change traits/builds or even professions OR go to other maps/areas. It happens to everyone where you constantly keep running into hard counters to what you are playing. Its up to you to adjust and counter things, that's what keeps this game interesting.

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@LetoII.3782 said:Yeah, I' gonna call shenanigans on thief and ranger being over represented in WvW.. Necro is still the most common from what I see.

I'm a roamer so its a roamer point of view,. I dont see so many necros roaming thse days, I play alot, mostly in t1 lately,and I'm about sure about what I say when I say there is an epidemic of rangers and thieves but probably not in zergs, my bad I should said I was talking about roaming.

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@sneakytails.5629 said:Necro is very safe to play right now with lower damage by enemies and necro shroud.

I tend to float around t3-4 with the occasional t2 and I see a lot of Necros. I would expect more Thieves and Rangers in T1.

Its out of subject but true. Nothing to compare with the proliferation of thieves and rangers but there is a bit more of necros lately and some are very tanky with still very decent damage. Glad you have fun with it :) I do enjoy my weaver btw, I stick to it for some good reasons, soloing camps for example is quite easy.. except its weak when I consistantly meet thieves and rangers on the way. Noobs apart, I cant do anything vs them whatever build or gear I use. So many of them now I'm getting scared about the fact that the noobs with these class will get better overtime, then it will be the end of hopes for my ele!

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For a Ranger to get the most out of the longbow they need to be glassy themselves which makes them pretty squishy and easy to kill.Plus there is a reasonable amount of anti projectile play in the game as well and Rapid fire is pretty easy to dodge even on a Warclaw so long as you see it coming which even counters unblockable arrows and makes them kinda useless at times.

I'd say thief is the more annoying of the two due to the overabundance of Stealth and mobility the lack of counters that combination has.

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@manu.7539 said:Rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kil u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver..

If you get killed by pewpew ranger as sw/d weaver (also with additional hp from warclaw) then let me tell you straight - this class is not for you, better switch to warrior, guard, tetris, idk.L2p issue, sw/d Weaver > ranger, either that or its stalemate after nerfs. With teefs its in weavers favour or stalemate if teef plays safe. The only problem might be DE cuz its hardcounter, but you can easily just run from it.

Learn your class first, then start complaining about others.

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@Widmo.3186 said:

@manu.7539 said:Rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kil u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just
try sw/d weaver
..

If you get killed by pewpew ranger as sw/d weaver (also with additional hp from warclaw) then let me tell you straight - this class is not for you, better switch to warrior, guard, tetris, idk.L2p issue, sw/d Weaver > ranger, either that or its stalemate after nerfs. With teefs its in weavers favour or stalemate if teef plays safe. The only problem might be DE cuz its hardcounter, but you can easily just run from it.

Learn your class first, then start complaining about others.

The thing is, people cant because they wont learn/play other classes to figure our what's going on, so people just complain instead and expect some form of sympathy.

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Thief and ranger have, for the last two years, been highly represented in ‘roaming’ because of their mobility and ability to disengage.

Similar to how guard and necro are highly represented in Zergs. The other classes are sprinkled in elsewhere.

If you don’t like seeing so many thief’s and rangers roaming, then maybe don’t roam?

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@manu.7539 said:The most used class (at least in T1) these days are probably thieves and rangers. There's some good reasons for that.. rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kil u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver.. it happens to me quite often! Thieves.. are thieves, no need to explain how annoying they are! ANET devs must be aware of all that but they obviously doesnt care! How did they manage to build such a nice game but then ruined it with such a bad balance! Money talk I guess, I dont feel like ANET is worthy of my money anymore! Why should I care for a company who doesnt care about their custumers?!?

So you just registered i guess you are new to wvw.In that case my advise is first to join a commander, use one of the meta classes (guard/necro/reventant) and go with them until you get some experience in this gamemode.

If you roam alone you and don't know the gamemode you will get ganked many times by thieves, rangers or mesmers. There aren't that many rangers or thieves, it's just if you go alone to camps those are the classes you will meet in those scenarios.

Go with the commander.

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@manu.7539 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So... lemme see here...

You run low health, light armor class and:
  • Ranger kills you = game bad
  • Thief kills you = game bad.

Got it..

Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

Convincing argument.

Ok so lets all play thieves or rangers, is it your argument?

Yeah... because reading comprehension would tell you that isn’t what I said.

I'm a main ele since gw1 and well, I'll stick on it even if eles are not so popular in wvw. I hoped that weaver was to bring some fun to eles and it did but ANET nerfed it alot in the past 2 years.

As am I. I play sword weaver, with a few variations of it depending on if I am running solo or +1.

So yeah, I'm raging to see some class ruling wvw with easy skills as I play piano and destroy my keyboard to survive or to do some little damage!

Which is your choice..... As it is mine. But ‘raging’ (I love that term on a forum btw) about it Really only encourages others to play something other than Ele.

Weaver has roles in WvW as does Tempest.

Just because those roles don’t fit your style doesn’t mean it’s broken.

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@manu.7539 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So... lemme see here...

You run low health, light armor class and:
  • Ranger kills you = game bad
  • Thief kills you = game bad.

Got it..

Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

Convincing argument.

Ok so lets all play thieves or rangers, is it your argument? I'm a main ele since gw1 and well, I'll stick on it even if eles are not so popular in wvw. I hoped that weaver was to bring some fun to eles and it did but ANET nerfed it alot in the past 2 years. So yeah, I'm raging to see some class ruling wvw with easy skills as I play piano and destroy my keyboard to survive or to do some little damage!

I fought an ele just yesterday who knew how to play to survive while running glass. He was oneshot killing people left and right.

So idk why somehow you think you are at a disadvantage here. There are good SBs and good thieves but most are average and can be killed if you bring the damage.

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To the OP, I main a Soulbeast Ranger and I mostly roam solo, granted I'm not one of those glass builds. One of the things I hate is those un-killable Elementalists who roam around WvW. I mean I unload my Rapid fire and it gets reflected all over the place and then they have the temerity to attack me. I keep hitting them with my greatsword and do great damage, then all of a sudden they heal and gradually wear me down and kill me. I've not even mentioned how they can disengage and within seconds remount and off they shoot whilst I'm still in combat. ANET devs must be aware of all that but they obviously doesnt care! How did they manage to build such a nice game but then ruined it with such a bad balance.

Can you see how this works?

Whilst the above is meant as rather tongue in cheek plagiarism of your original post, as others have said there are reasons why Rangers and Thieves roam and are a popular choice for doing so. They're good at it.

Here is another news flash for you.

Both classes aren't particularly wanted in Zergs. So it shouldn't come as a surprise to you to find out that players are going to do something rather than just sitting at the WP. Its called Roaming. They have the tools to sort out lone players (unless that lone player is good).

Here is another one for you.

If you are out roaming solo prancing around on a mount enemy players will try to kill you. This is the whole point of the game mode.

If you don't like this leave the WvW map, the Portal exit is that way>>>>>>

There are counters to Rangers and Thieves, if there weren't every player would be playing them since they would be un-killable. It is the same with every single class.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

Idk sir, this one is highly debated by many people to be a fact.I wouldn't blame it on the devs. Devs just do what they are told to code.

If you want someone to blame, blame lack of research, testing, which both fall on the design domain, and have nothing to do with coding the thing. Code evaluation comes with testing, so numbers need to be changed but by definition whoever designs a class should conduct a retrospective.

I think most issues would be remedied if - like with all good companies - products get tested with customers before any release takes place. In my experience they conducted only one (major) public Beta with the release of the new specs including the Deadeye. How much data they got and how much of it they took seriously is debatable, but what is the crux is the approach of the company and how they choose to do everything in secrecy before releasing.

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