... But The Thief Got Away.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

What do you expect, that the thief stands there and dies in a situation they can't win because you think it's unfair for them to get away? Would you not run into a tower when a blob shows up and ends the small scale fight because it's only fair they get a bag? Most classes can build to bug out if they choose to, and hit and run tactics can be used by any player. If thief didn't have the best mobility It'd be another class that gets away every time, and if you had the mobility to get away (which you don't because you main necro lol) you'd do the exact same thing the thief is doing. So you might want to get off your high horse and stop pretending you'd do anything different given our positions were reversed.This is true, at least to some extent. The popular roaming classes all have in common that they can escape when necessary and in relation to some other classes that can be seen as an issue. However, some of that is necessary for outnumbered kiting/roaming to exist. I don't think that is the topic at hand here. The issue with the Thief isn't that it can break combat, that it can ambush or that it has unique cooldowns, teleports or stealth. The problem is the sheer volume on it on the builds now, how it combines and how they can more or less reset at will. Other popular roaming classes can't do anything even remotely similar. That is why you can now see Thieves even troll larger groups that are trying to chase/gank them because they know that they can reset at will so they can just cheekily re-engage to prove that point, over and over. It isn't even escaping anymore it's moving in and out of combat as you please.

So, the problem isn't the escape, it's the reset. It is that they can escape and re-engage more or less infinately. It isn't that they can break combat once. It is that they can break combat over and over (yet still control the re-engagement to keep comming back for more like that). That is why so many other players now just wait for th exact moment they break combat, mount up and ride away in the other direction because it at least gives them some distance to crush and an extra health bar that forces some cooldowns and/or blunts the ambush from the Thief if it chooses to flip back on the offensive.

Mesmers do not have that, Warriors do not have that, Rangers do not have that and Elementalists do not have that. Even though those classes have plenty of ports, breaks and sprints/leaps. So a Warrior may disappear in the distance with a double-sword escape, however, he is not going to turn around, slap you in the face just to flaunt what's broken and then sprint away again indefinately and with impunity. Mesmers can ambush or they can escape but it's often one of either and not a combination, certainly not a combination that persists indefinately. If you survive the first ambush and/or escape of a Mesmer they are often severely weakened if they re-engage, cooldowns burnt etc. Mesmers have traditionally also been rather poor at chasing down opponents that want to escape them (save for the time when sword-leap Mirages were OP and even condi Mirages played sword) so other players certainly don't have to wait for the Mesmer to break combat to get away from them if they want to fight to a standstill or just avoid defensive Mesmer builds like condi tanks.

So to wrap up yet another round of this silly back and forth, it's a simple balance issue with there just being too much of everything mobility related to the point where the class can engage, disengage and re-engage at will. It's the combination of that which is the problem. This wasn't an issue in vanilla and Thieves were pretty popular and powerful roamers (possibly the best/most popular) already back then. This is a severe case of elite spec and re-trait creep.

Then as always, smalle scale WvW may not be a focal point for any balance effort but there are also some things that stick out so much that it just becomes ridiculous. It was ridiculous when you had 36/50 Scourges in large scale and the profileration of Thieves at small scale which has gone on for quite some time is definately starting to become quite ridiculous now and is starting to have a rather negative impact on the mode overall. It isn't isolated to some corpserunner getting ganked or some duelist being frustrated by a dishonorable reset anymore.

[sneakytails.5629]

Play thief more and find out its weaknesses. You will find out your counters, and when you are getting countered deliberately by players changing up their build/approach to do just that.

I did prefer the old damage though, you could really punish Thieves a lot better. After multi-classing more I dont really sweat things too much.

[Klypto.1703]

The funny thing is that they think we are in stealth but we aren't even logged into the game. Most of us are just waiting to see if they ever give us our game back but if not we are still watching you!

[Famine.7915]

And yet they get hunted down like dogs. :/

[kash.9213]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

What do you expect, that the thief stands there and dies in a situation they can't win because you think it's unfair for them to get away? Would you not run into a tower when a blob shows up and ends the small scale fight because it's only fair they get a bag? Most classes can build to bug out if they choose to, and hit and run tactics can be used by any player. If thief didn't have the best mobility It'd be another class that gets away every time, and if you had the mobility to get away (which you don't because you main necro lol) you'd do the exact same thing the thief is doing. So you might want to get off your high horse and stop pretending you'd do anything different given our positions were reversed.This is true, at least to some extent. The popular roaming classes all have in common that they can escape when necessary and in relation to some other classes that can be seen as an issue. However, some of that is necessary for outnumbered kiting/roaming to exist. I don't think that is the topic at hand here. The issue with the Thief isn't that it can break combat, that it can ambush or that it has unique cooldowns, teleports or stealth. The problem is the sheer volume on it on the builds now, how it combines and how they can more or less reset at will. Other popular roaming classes can't do anything even remotely similar. That is why you can now see Thieves even troll larger groups that are trying to chase/gank them because they know that they can reset at will so they can just cheekily re-engage to prove that point, over and over. It isn't even escaping anymore it's moving in and out of combat as you please.

So, the problem isn't the escape, it's the reset. It is that they can escape and re-engage more or less infinately. It isn't that they can break combat once. It is that they can break combat over and over (yet still control the re-engagement to keep comming back for more like that). That is why so many other players now just wait for th exact moment they break combat, mount up and ride away in the other direction because it at least gives them some distance to crush and an extra health bar that forces some cooldowns and/or blunts the ambush from the Thief if it chooses to flip back on the offensive.

Mesmers do not have that, Warriors do not have that, Rangers do not have that and Elementalists do not have that. Even though those classes have plenty of ports, breaks and sprints/leaps. So a Warrior may disappear in the distance with a double-sword escape, however, he is not going to turn around, slap you in the face just to flaunt what's broken and then sprint away again indefinately and with impunity. Mesmers can ambush or they can escape but it's often one of either and not a combination, certainly not a combination that persists indefinately. If you survive the first ambush and/or escape of a Mesmer they are often severely weakened if they re-engage, cooldowns burnt etc. Mesmers have traditionally also been rather poor at chasing down opponents that want to escape them (save for the time when sword-leap Mirages were OP and even condi Mirages played sword) so other players certainly don't have to wait for the Mesmer to break combat to get away from them if they want to fight to a standstill or just avoid defensive Mesmer builds like condi tanks.

So to wrap up yet another round of this silly back and forth, it's a simple balance issue with there just being too much of everything mobility related to the point where the class can engage, disengage and re-engage at will. It's the combination of that which is the problem. This wasn't an issue in vanilla and Thieves were pretty popular and powerful roamers (possibly the best/most popular) already back then. This is a severe case of elite spec and re-trait creep.

Then as always, smalle scale WvW may not be a focal point for any balance effort but there are also some things that stick out so much that it just becomes ridiculous. It was ridiculous when you had 36/50 Scourges in large scale and the profileration of Thieves at small scale which has gone on for quite some time is definately starting to become quite ridiculous now and is starting to have a rather negative impact on the mode overall. It isn't isolated to some corpserunner getting ganked or some duelist being frustrated by a dishonorable reset anymore.

What do you mean shear volume? There are only so many skill slots and utility slots. If those slots are filled up with ports then they're not filled up with damage. If someone can disengage and reengage then build to catch them before they take off. I could have better shit on my utility bar but I take Scorpion Wire instead just for that reason. You didn't wrap up yet another round of that silly back and forth, you're just being dramatic about an issue that is mostly your issue.

[godmoney.6025]

As a thief main myself, I realize how broken thief actually is when I start roaming on other classes (non-stealth, medium mobility classes). Not the damage per sé, but the fact that you do not have to commit to ANY fight, even the fights you initiated. You can just use your many escape tools and stealth to infinitely reset if the fight isn't in your favor. This is unhealthy game design, but unfortunately most of thief's toolkit and balance has been done around its mobility and stealth and is not something that can be changed easily (even if the devs actually cared enough to do something about it).

Unpopular opinion - stealth as a whole has been implemented in an unhealthy way in GW2 - access to stealth should be limited at best whilst in combat. And whilst Anet has implemented certain revealing mechanics to try and remedy this - they add counters to counters in the form of removing revealed on Deadeye elite skill.

[Dawdler.8521]

@godmoney.6025 said:Unpopular opinion - stealth as a whole has been implemented in an unhealthy way in GW2Pretty sure thats the popular opinion.

[Shroud.2307]

@godmoney.6025 said:As a thief main myself, I realize how broken thief actually is when I start roaming on other classes (non-stealth, medium mobility classes). Not the damage per sé, but the fact that you do not have to commit to ANY fight, even the fights you initiated. You can just use your many escape tools and stealth to infinitely reset if the fight isn't in your favor. This is unhealthy game design, but unfortunately most of thief's toolkit and balance has been done around its mobility and stealth and is not something that can be changed easily (even if the devs actually cared enough to do something about it).

Unpopular opinion - stealth as a whole has been implemented in an unhealthy way in GW2 - access to stealth should be limited at best whilst in combat. And whilst Anet has implemented certain revealing mechanics to try and remedy this - they add counters to counters in the form of removing revealed on Deadeye elite skill.

I don't think Thief having the ability to choose whether or not it wants to take or continue a fight is a problem, personally. It has no place in large scale fights (not including the niche staff Daredevil) and struggles in medium (15 v 15) scale fights. It is a strong roamer and small scale fighter, but the class is designed to be burst heavy and a +1er. It struggles in sustained fights and against classes with high damage reduction because it has poor sustain/resustain itself and is reliant on ending fights quickly or stringing people along until they over extend.

The crux of Thief is that it is only strong in an open field, similar to a longbow Ranger. If you can take that away from them they suddenly become a lot less of a threat, and there are lots of places to do so on maps as large as the ones in WvW.

The true irony is that so many people see it as being the definitive OP roaming class, yet it can be shut down by standing on a small boulder or terrain that doesn't allow pathing. And against S/D Thieves, on the very edge of cliffs because they can't spam skill 3.

Stealth is a different story, but as I've said in other threads, it's here to stay and I don't think there's much point in discussing ways to rework it because it would take an immense amount of rebalancing that ANet is unlikely to ever do.

[Shroud.2307]

@"Samug.6512" said:Meanwhile shadowstep can't be countered. There is no counter for 1200 instant stunbreak teleport, except maybe Megabane Tether (which doesnt even pull the thief all the way if I remember correctly?) and maybe Dragonhunter F1.

Impassable skills like Line Of Warding, Ring Of Warding, Spectral Ring, Static Field, etc. will still apply the CC even after Shadow Step has taken place. If you try to Shadow Step out of Spectral Ring or through Line Of Warding for example, you will be CC'd at the destination of the teleport. Although 1,200 units away, that still means there is an opportunity to prevent them from moving further.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you though, Shadow Step is a very stacked skill. But pretty much every class has at least one or two skills that are extremely stacked with powerful effects. Dolyak Stance, Spectral Walk, Elixir U, "Shake It Off!", to name a few that are versatile enough to be used with almost any build and have a lot of fight-deciding effects.

[bambi.6214]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Samug.6512" said:Meanwhile shadowstep can't be countered. There is no counter for 1200 instant stunbreak teleport, except maybe Megabane Tether (which doesnt even pull the thief all the way if I remember correctly?) and maybe Dragonhunter F1.

Impassable skills like Line Of Warding, Ring Of Warding, Spectral Ring, Static Field, etc. will still apply the CC even after Shadow Step has taken place. If you try to Shadow Step out of Spectral Ring or through Line Of Warding for example, you will be CC'd at the destination of the teleport. Although 1,200 units away, that still means there is an opportunity to prevent them from moving further.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you though, Shadow Step is a very stacked skill. But pretty much every class has at least one or two skills that are extremely stacked with powerful effects. Dolyak Stance, Spectral Walk, Elixir U, "Shake It Off!", to name a few that are versatile enough to be used with almost any build and have a lot of fight-deciding effects.

I don't think Shadow Step is a stacked skill, actually, I'm all right with it being a double stun break teleport - thief is supposed to a mobile profession. I think the range of teleport and mobility skills on thief is stacked. Maximum combat range in GW2 is 1500 units. Shadow Step can cover up to 1200 units, so 80% of this distance. Now we take into consideration that:

• Dash covers 450 units (30%)
• Infiltrator's Arrow covers 900 units (60%)
• Death's Retreat covers 600 units (40%)
• Roll for Initiative covers ~580 units (38%? sth like this)
• Withdraw covers ~500 units (33%?)
• Infiltrator's Strike is 900 units (admittedly that requires a target) (60%)

Shadow Step + any of those put the thief beyond that combat range, some don't ever require much effort, eg Dash is just a dodge, and some can be spammed quite easily, eg shortbow5 can be used every 6 seconds (from 0 initiative), death's retreat every 5 seconds etc.

I'm not blaming Shadow Step as a sole issue (although it is a main contender), I say that getting >1500 units away from some target should require more resources than 2 presses of a button. Yes, enemies are hardly ever stationary and are able to chase, but Shadow Step in a random direction forces the opponent to look around, and even if the confusion lasts 1 second that's enough to press 2 buttons and mount up. Not to mention the ability to stealth and cover the escape.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

What do you expect, that the thief stands there and dies in a situation they can't win because you think it's unfair for them to get away? Would you not run into a tower when a blob shows up and ends the small scale fight because it's only fair they get a bag? Most classes can build to bug out if they choose to, and hit and run tactics can be used by any player. If thief didn't have the best mobility It'd be another class that gets away every time, and if you had the mobility to get away (which you don't because you main necro lol) you'd do the exact same thing the thief is doing. So you might want to get off your high horse and stop pretending you'd do anything different given our positions were reversed.This is true, at least to some extent. The popular roaming classes all have in common that they can escape when necessary and in relation to some other classes that can be seen as an issue. However, some of that is necessary for outnumbered kiting/roaming to exist. I don't think that is the topic at hand here. The issue with the Thief isn't that it can break combat, that it can ambush or that it has unique cooldowns, teleports or stealth.

The problem is the sheer volume on it on the builds now, how it combines and how they can more or less reset at will.

Other popular roaming classes can't do anything even remotely similar. That is why you can now see Thieves even troll larger groups that are trying to chase/gank them because they know that they can reset at will so they can just cheekily re-engage to prove that point, over and over. It isn't even escaping anymore it's moving in and out of combat as you please.

Apart from the fact that it's nothing of the sort. Until relatively recently, one of the better thief roaming builds was S/D core. That build could get OOC against anything it liked. Exactly what about that build was elite spec power creep? How is that a balance issue that worsened over the course of the expansions, and why wasn't that an issue in vanilla when people were running almost the exact same build? Lastly, why is that build now hardly seen if the mobility was the reason it was broken?

So, the problem isn't the escape, it's the reset. It is that they can escape and re-engage more or less infinately. It isn't that they can break combat once. It is that they can break combat over and over (yet still control the re-engagement to keep comming back for more like that). That is why so many other players now just wait for th exact moment they break combat, mount up and ride away in the other direction because it at least gives them some distance to crush and an extra health bar that forces some cooldowns and/or blunts the ambush from the Thief if it chooses to flip back on the offensive.

And that is the exact thing you ought to do. If I attack you and I have to back off, you didn't choose the fight but you won that exchange. If you don't mount up and leave when you get chance but wait for the thief to return, you are choosing that fight. So you can't really complain if the thief comes back and kills you on the second pass. You chose that fight, deal with the consequences.

Mesmers do not have that, Warriors do not have that, Rangers do not have that and Elementalists do not have that. Even though those classes have plenty of ports, breaks and sprints/leaps. So a Warrior may disappear in the distance with a double-sword escape, however, he is not going to turn around, slap you in the face just to flaunt what's broken and then sprint away again indefinately and with impunity. Mesmers can ambush or they can escape but it's often one of either and not a combination, certainly not a combination that persists indefinately. If you survive the first ambush and/or escape of a Mesmer they are often severely weakened if they re-engage, cooldowns burnt etc. Mesmers have traditionally also been rather poor at chasing down opponents that want to escape them (save for the time when sword-leap Mirages were OP and even condi Mirages played sword) so other players certainly don't have to wait for the Mesmer to break combat to get away from them if they want to fight to a standstill or just avoid defensive Mesmer builds like condi tanks.

Pretty sure your argument is flawed if you think that guardian can disengage a 1v1 at will at will but ranger cannot.

On a serious note, if a thief blows all it's utilities to get out of dodge, it is just as severely weakened as you say a mesmer that just did the same thing is. Both classes are extremely susceptible to CC and spike damage when their utilities are on cooldown. If the thief didn't blow any utilities to get out of combat, you did a pretty poor job of trying to catch them.

So to wrap up yet another round of this silly back and forth, it's a simple balance issue with there just being too much of everything mobility related to the point where the class can engage, disengage and re-engage at will. It's the combination of that which is the problem. This wasn't an issue in vanilla and Thieves were pretty popular and powerful roamers (possibly the best/most popular) already back then. This is a severe case of elite spec and re-trait creep.

See my first comment. What about core S/D thief is elite power creep, and what about it is a problem now that wasn't a problem in vanilla?

I will freely admit that going OOC to retrait is power creep and thief is the best class to make use of that, but if I go out of combat so do you. So in a random 1v1 the power creep is equal for both sides (both get the chance to swap to a build that suits the fight better, it's not my fault if you don't take advantage of it) and in a group fight it is still totally irrelevant. Duels are a different matter, but if you go OOC in a duel it's basically admitting defeat anyways.

Then as always, smalle scale WvW may not be a focal point for any balance effort but there are also some things that stick out so much that it just becomes ridiculous. It was ridiculous when you had 36/50 Scourges in large scale and the profileration of Thieves at small scale which has gone on for quite some time is definately starting to become quite ridiculous now and is starting to have a rather negative impact on the mode overall. It isn't isolated to some corpserunner getting ganked or some duelist being frustrated by a dishonorable reset anymore.

If I find myself in a matchup with lots of gankers, I will run full minstrel deadeye when moving between objectives. Build templates are a thing that you all can use. Run a build that can deal with roamers until you find your group, then swap to the build you plan to play while part of the group.

[lotus.5672]

@"Yasai.3549" said:I find it funny how Thieves are still using the age old "No Stealth = No Thief" argument.That would have been a viable argument 2 years ago, but as of now, Thieves actually stand to be one of the most durable Professions in the competitive scene.

Just go ahead and fight a Condi DD with any Power build.Their entire DD traitline counters Power approach due to the constant Weakness application, and when they are faced with Condi threats, they can simply escape Condi threats and get so far away they don't have to fight them until they feel like the Condi opponent has used their cooldowns and then they strike.

"But just Condi them when they running"Sigil of Cleansing and Shadow's Embrace make a joke of Conditions.

Nobody plays d/d condi

[Burnfall.9573]

@lotus.5672 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:I find it funny how Thieves are still using the age old "No Stealth = No Thief" argument.That would have been a viable argument 2 years ago, but as of now, Thieves actually stand to be one of the most durable Professions in the competitive scene.

Just go ahead and fight a Condi DD with any Power build.Their entire DD traitline counters Power approach due to the constant Weakness application, and when they are faced with Condi threats, they can simply escape Condi threats and get so far away they don't have to fight them until they feel like the Condi opponent has used their cooldowns and then they strike.

"But just Condi them when they running"Sigil of Cleansing and Shadow's Embrace make a joke of Conditions.

Nobody plays d/d condi

(I will not post video here because of offense language music in background.)

Youtube--'GW2 WVW Roaming Core Thief D/D... SO MANY DCs' by Taka including with other Thief D/D videos +1 shots

(all videos are current-October 2020)

[Yasai.3549]

@lotus.5672 said:

Nobody plays d/d condi

DD = Daredevil.

DD =/= d/d

[ASP.8093]

@lotus.5672 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:I find it funny how Thieves are still using the age old "No Stealth = No Thief" argument.That would have been a viable argument 2 years ago, but as of now, Thieves actually stand to be one of the most durable Professions in the competitive scene.

Just go ahead and fight a Condi DD with any Power build.Their entire DD traitline counters Power approach due to the constant Weakness application, and when they are faced with Condi threats, they can simply escape Condi threats and get so far away they don't have to fight them until they feel like the Condi opponent has used their cooldowns and then they strike.

"But just Condi them when they running"Sigil of Cleansing and Shadow's Embrace make a joke of Conditions.

Nobody plays d/d condi

They mean Daredevil, not Dagger/Dagger.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Burnfall.9573 said:Just curious, but what were you trying to exemplify with the video (you responded to post about daredevil condi). Because in the video his build was not condi at all and there is also a build link.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(

[Svarty.8019]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Svarty.8019" said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(

What a curious response. Could you kindly offer some positive suggestion that might aid us in our plight against players of this this god-like class, please - some insightful comments regarding counters other than, "git gud"?

Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

[Sobx.1758]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

[Svarty.8019]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

I'm not here to argue the rules. I'm just telling a story. Like humans do.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

I'm not here to argue the rules. I'm just telling a story. Like humans do.

De are annoying but not sure 4 of you should of lost to 2, when there is los to use, supplys at will to drop stealth traps/markers (dont even say they clear it with elite, you be anticipating that skill and get ready to cc or channaled attacks)

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

i mean, that ain't even hard. p1 runs toward one deadeye, gets sniped. p2-4 run to the other, it just disengages. first deadeye closes up and snipes p2 from behind. panic, ppl turn, 2nd deadeye snipes p3...

thieves overall are still extremly overpowered. basically the dmg nerfs that happened hit them and rangers the least of all classes. roamers overall kinda have to deal with far less incoming damage now. before a well played healfirebrand could even offensively kill thieves... now you need to have quick fingers to switch set before the thief engages, or it's a long running game.

yeah okay, things like condirev or dedeye are not better... that does not change anything really tbh. at least rev cannot stealth on you (alone, normally) and they cannot phase out across half of the map (... normally)

[UNOwen.7132]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

i mean, that ain't even hard. p1 runs toward one deadeye, gets sniped. p2-4 run to the other, it just disengages. first deadeye closes up and snipes p2 from behind. panic, ppl turn, 2nd deadeye snipes p3...

You have to be really bad to be able to just get sniped by the most predictable burst in the game, so, yknow, that doesnt help his case much. And if DE 2 disengages, they can just turn around and pile on DE1, since DE2 has nothing he can do since he lost his initiative.

thieves overall are still extremly overpowered. basically the dmg nerfs that happened hit them and rangers the least of all classes. roamers overall kinda have to deal with far less incoming damage now. before a well played healfirebrand could even offensively kill thieves... now you need to have quick fingers to switch set before the thief engages, or it's a long running game.

Uh, no, actually. Damage-wise thieves were one of the hardest hits. They took the regular damage nerfs everyone else took, but then also got nerfs to their traitlines, to assassins signet, leaving them with much less damage. And damage nerfs hit them harder in general since theyre a burst class too. Thieves arent overpowered. Id not even call them strong. Theyre a class that never dies, but also never kills. They just reset over and over, annoying you ,but never posing a threat.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i'm talking about 4 medicore players versus two mediocre thieves... that's what happens, seen it enough times.

__hope u know that this is a plain lie. maybe if we talk about roamerfights only, yeah... but who runs around in all engages on spvp gear/build. i still kill roamers regularly using zergsets, bc often u cannot just swap in time or it's not necessary even.

again, firebrands could kill stuff before, now impossible. hammer herald lost two big sources of aoe dmg that aren't even fast. i killed some thieves alone with hits on that before... now they can tank a direct hit of hammer 2 or hammer 3 even...

scrouge has a good position bc it has dmg fields, warrior and scrapper are also played as support and therefore can only cc + run away...

theif and ranger have very fast attack followups. for that fact their dps is still very high. (while for example, hammer 5 on rev is extremly slow... if we talk about predictable, that is what would be a way better example than any class that can hit out of stealth)

[Solitude.2097]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

i mean, that ain't even hard. p1 runs toward one deadeye, gets sniped. p2-4 run to the other, it just disengages. first deadeye closes up and snipes p2 from behind. panic, ppl turn, 2nd deadeye snipes p3...

thieves overall are still extremly overpowered. basically the dmg nerfs that happened hit them and rangers the least of all classes. roamers overall kinda have to deal with far less incoming damage now. before a well played healfirebrand could even offensively kill thieves... now you need to have quick fingers to switch set before the thief engages, or it's a long running game.

yeah okay, things like condirev or dedeye are not better... that does not change anything really tbh. at least rev cannot stealth on you (alone, normally) and they cannot phase out across half of the map (... normally)

Yeah they should reduce Thief damage and let their stealth mechanic remain the same , in order to maintain the Rogue archetype .And whoever wants the Assasin , should roll Rev , which is more acceptable buy the community .Or whoever stealth , both parties leave combat after 1,5 sec (so both can mount up) .If none stealths /not long enough , you keep dueling Or after 10 sec (3x times) of stealth allows you to use Mount . Either he must kill you in 10 sec , or both can Mount up and leave