100cm breakbar

[Mrs Lana.2506]

With the removal of high-cc consumables being used in fractals, please consider reducing the bar for 100cm. I've been in a bunch of groups with cc cons that already had issues not breaking because of greed/stupidity, it's only going to be worse now the cons are gone. A lot of people in my fractal guild feel the same way. We don't want to have to ditch another dps role for a cc only build.

[lare.5129]

party don't need ditch another dps role. Nothing chnages after that pacth. Now it more simply from one side: bs now not prevented to condi FB on cm100, and swap back on others. Now it bs form start to end. If someone bs forget about maces - they need to refresh mind and bring it back if want stay in normal party. So what you need is more better puch bs to make cc. If bs can't - block and kick bs, take other bs.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@lare.5129 said:party don't need ditch another dps role. Nothing chnages after that pacth. Now it more simply from one side: bs now not prevented to condi FB on cm100, and swap back on others. Now it bs form start to end. If someone bs forget about maces - they need to refresh mind and bring it back if want stay in normal party. So what you need is more better puch bs to make cc. If bs can't - block and kick bs, take other bs.

BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.

[lare.5129]

@Miss Lana.5276 said:BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.As I see from yesterday bs on 100cm don't take banners. And yes, it was power.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@lare.5129 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.As I see from yesterday bs on 100cm don't take banners. And yes, it was power.

So, like mentioned in the first post, you would indeed be dropping dps for a cc slot.

[lare.5129]

if you mean some dropping dps for a cc slo FROM BS ONLY - yesbut as for me this no tragedy

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@lare.5129 said:if you mean some dropping dps for a cc slo FROM BS ONLY - yesbut as for me this no tragedy

BS = banner slave. Banners are useless in 100cm, as mentioned above. If you're taking a power war that's a power war, not a bs. Considering the amount that the boss moves and the split mechanics, etc, condi is favoured. Condi war has little cc compared to power war, so that's less dps and no banners in favour of more cc.

So, again, yes you would be needing to drop a dps slot for a cc slot. I won't be explaining this further to you.

[lare.5129]

and now we can instead BS for cm100 say CCS for warrior ..

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Maybe stop using condi fb and use condi reaper, condi ele ,condi ranger or better condi classes with more cc the point of the block was to force build changes maybe use hammer instead of scepter

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Maybe stop using condi fb and use condi reaper, condi ele ,condi ranger or better condi classes with more cc the point of the block was to force build changes maybe use hammer instead of scepter

lol hammer instead of scepter. Nice meme. I don't play dps normally, idk why you're assuming I do.

As @"Infusion.7149" pointed out in another thread;

Any "normal" Champion or Legendary fractal boss = 600 defiance barBloomhunger (a normal boss) = 1000 defiance barAssault Knights = 800 defiance barEnsolyss & Siax = 2000 defiance barSkorvald the Shattered = 2200 defiance barArtsariiv = 2100 defiance barArkk = 1800 defiance barAi, Keeper of the Peak = 3200 defiance barSorrow = 1500 defiance bar with 10s window (near double the Assault Knights')

Compare this to say a raid boss designed for 10 people which is 2000 defiance for Vale Guardian / Matthias / Xera and 4000-4500 for the likes of Slothasor, Samarog and Gorseval...

It's not just "use another class lol". It's way out of proportion compared to other boss CC bars.

[lare.5129]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Maybe stop using condi fbno, more bettera and more EASY !!! push one warrior make point on him one than 2 cfband more fun

[Darkblade.7634]

And by that losing a ton of dps since a power-war without banners and with additional cc-Skills on his bar, who gotta camp mace/mace for cc half the fight on an Bossfight which also moves alot will deal around the same dps as your average rev.Instead of that waste of a slot in your group people will continue to stack Fb´s and bring sanctuary + maybe even hammer of wisdom on all of them.1 Cfb could even solo the Sorrow with Hammer of Wisdom+ Sanctuary and when you got 4 of them (including the Hfb) you basicly just gotta drop 2 Sanctuarys on each add and it will die in time while you can continue to dps the boss.Sure, it will cost dps on the cfb´s since you lose signet and sword but dps is still easily good enough to always phase boss in time.All the cheesing you can do doesnt change the fact, that the cc-bar is just too big compared to alot of cc-bars in raids and the other cm´s.And at the end it wont hurt the good and experienced players because they will easily clear it still with a bit more of coordination (outside of the fact that some might stop playing because the game becomes more and more less interesting for the hardcore players since it looks like anet doesnt have any clue how the highend-player-community works and what they appreciate about the content ) but newer player will struggle and become frustrated by it since less and less experienced players will play in lfg thanks to changes like this.Does really anyone in his right mind think that players with 1500kp that want to have a clean run from lfg will start to explain cc-bars to randoms when stuff doesnt work out ? Nope, people will just focus more on playing through guilds/discords and maybe dont do another run if they cant find some people they already know.Will just work out on the same level aus the removal of kp worked out to make the content more accessible for new players.

[lare.5129]

new players have T1 (1-25)need more? welcome to t2many people do t4+rec dayli each day many years, and don't have plan do cms. So fractals is "accessible for new players."

[Aceofsppades.6873]

@Miss Lana.5276 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Maybe stop using condi fb and use condi reaper, condi ele ,condi ranger or better condi classes with more cc the point of the block was to force build changes maybe use hammer instead of scepter

lol hammer instead of scepter. Nice meme. I don't play dps normally, idk why you're assuming I do.

As @"Infusion.7149" pointed out in another thread;

Any "normal" Champion or Legendary fractal boss = 600 defiance barBloomhunger (a normal boss) = 1000 defiance barAssault Knights = 800 defiance barEnsolyss & Siax = 2000 defiance barSkorvald the Shattered = 2200 defiance barArtsariiv = 2100 defiance barArkk = 1800 defiance barAi, Keeper of the Peak = 3200 defiance barSorrow = 1500 defiance bar with 10s window (near double the Assault Knights')

Compare this to say a raid boss designed for 10 people which is 2000 defiance for Vale Guardian / Matthias / Xera and 4000-4500 for the likes of Slothasor, Samarog and Gorseval...

It's not just "use another class lol". It's way out of proportion compared to other boss CC bars.

So? It's very doable so what's the problem with a boss break bar being very big?

Hell the only thing that has shown is that the devs have been way to lenient in the size of some of the raid breakbars.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Maybe stop using condi fb and use condi reaper, condi ele ,condi ranger or better condi classes with more cc the point of the block was to force build changes maybe use hammer instead of scepter

Cfb has more cc than everything you listed.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@Miss Lana.5276 said:

@lare.5129 said:party don't need ditch another dps role. Nothing chnages after that pacth. Now it more simply from one side: bs now not prevented to condi FB on cm100, and swap back on others. Now it bs form start to end. If someone bs forget about maces - they need to refresh mind and bring it back if want stay in normal party. So what you need is more better puch bs to make cc. If bs can't - block and kick bs, take other bs.

BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.

Power DPS actually outscales Condi DPS if you can phase her before the first move. Just stack damage, CC when Ai first moves to the edge, DPS hard to phase her, then it's fine. This means bringing power DH, Power Soulbeast, Banners, Power Ren, and Power (or heal but it becomes tighter) Firebrand is good enough to blow up the boss.

@Darkblade.7634 said:And by that losing a ton of dps since a power-war without banners and with additional cc-Skills on his bar, who gotta camp mace/mace for cc half the fight on an Bossfight which also moves alot will deal around the same dps as your average rev.

Wait, what? Camp maces? Warrior has a 5s weapon swap cooldown. They don't have to camp anything.

Instead of that waste of a slot in your group people will continue to stack Fb´s and bring sanctuary + maybe even hammer of wisdom on all of them.

It's not a waste of a slot unless the rest of your party can't burst down the boss.

[Only Even.6193]

To be honest most of the times I see 3cFBs or even c core guards in 100CM LFGs..So for players that knows that Sanctuary exists, the removal of consumables is at most annoying.Sanctuary is the hardest CC in the game since it pulses 150CC per pulsation, for a total of 750, add 2 more pulses if traited and this skill alone does 1050CC,you just have to be carefull not to waste your CC's on phase 2 when you'r near 66% and 33%.

Tho', I don't like the clones compositions that much and of course this patch literally removed the freedom we had by not taking that much CC (or any) on our bars, and focus more on survivability/dps...I don't know how they though it was a good idea removing consumables when 3K breakbars exists in 100CM for only 5 players.I have no issues when I'm playing with friends, but pugging 100CM now can be a real nightmare.

[Dahkeus.8243]

@Miss Lana.5276 said:

@lare.5129 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.As I see from yesterday bs on 100cm don't take banners. And yes, it was power.

So, like mentioned in the first post, you would indeed be dropping dps for a cc slot.

It's just swapping one DPS build for another DPS build. Just because warriors bring mace weapons as a swap doesn't mean they are some sort of low DPS build that's somehow built around having CC. Even if you want a condi build, there's stuff like condi renegade that can bring some strong CC for breakbars.

It's just a shift to play the game as it was designed instead of playing your UI to juggle items in your bag.

[Linken.6345]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:

@lare.5129 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.As I see from yesterday bs on 100cm don't take banners. And yes, it was power.

So, like mentioned in the first post, you would indeed be dropping dps for a cc slot.

It's just swapping one DPS build for another DPS build. Just because warriors bring mace weapons as a swap doesn't mean they are some sort of low DPS build that's somehow built around having CC. Even if you want a condi build, there's stuff like condi renegade that can bring some strong CC for breakbars.

It's just a shift to play the game as it was designed instead of playing your UI to juggle items in your bag.

Yes and this was possible before so why take away options?

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:

@lare.5129 said:party don't need ditch another dps role. Nothing chnages after that pacth. Now it more simply from one side: bs now not prevented to condi FB on cm100, and swap back on others. Now it bs form start to end. If someone bs forget about maces - they need to refresh mind and bring it back if want stay in normal party. So what you need is more better puch bs to make cc. If bs can't - block and kick bs, take other bs.

BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.

Power DPS actually outscales Condi DPS if you can phase her before the first move. Just stack damage, CC when Ai first moves to the edge, DPS hard to phase her, then it's fine. This means bringing power DH, Power Soulbeast, Banners, Power Ren, and Power (or heal but it becomes tighter) Firebrand is good enough to blow up the boss.

Yeah but that entirely depends on having dps that can actually burst. That tactic applies to pretty much every boss, and yet you don't see it often because the average dps can't or doesn't want to bother trying.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:

@lare.5129 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:BS is useless in 100. There's too much moving around for it to be worth, so unless there's a war build that's condi dps with big cc that'd be worth, sure.As I see from yesterday bs on 100cm don't take banners. And yes, it was power.

So, like mentioned in the first post, you would indeed be dropping dps for a cc slot.

It's just swapping one DPS build for another DPS build. Just because warriors bring mace weapons as a swap doesn't mean they are some sort of low DPS build that's somehow built around having CC. Even if you want a condi build, there's stuff like condi renegade that can bring some strong CC for breakbars.

It's just a shift to play the game as it was designed instead of playing your UI to juggle items in your bag.

Yes and this was possible before so why take away options?

Options that were pretty much useless otherwise as well. Now there's really no use for those niche cons.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Maybe stop using condi fb and use condi reaper, condi ele ,condi ranger or better condi classes with more cc the point of the block was to force build changes maybe use hammer instead of scepter

Cfb has more cc than everything you listed.

This.

I really don't get the hate for cfb. If played right it has some of the highest cc a condi class can bring at some of the lowest sacrifice. Sanctuary alone is 1 utility slot for 750 break bar damage (hint hint for every player who immediately goes for Bane Signet instead of reading through the defiance bar wiki).

If at all, this change has cemented cfb even more for this fractal.

[Morokey.8534]

Can't stand people still calling warriors like Banner Slave holy f. .. Anyway, in my opinion that was good thing to remove cons. Now people need to think about CCs more than before and classes like reaper are more welcomed.

[Morokey.8534]

Maybe people will finally change their skills like warrior's and necromancer's power signets which makes like 4%DPS for CCs, or change weapons for a bir lower DPS but more CCs like scepter to hammer for firebrand, or dagger in OH to warhorn for scourge etc.. But to be honest 99% people don't even know what their skills, weapons and traits do, only copy & paste builds and skills from websides..

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@Morokey.8534 said:Maybe people will finally change their skills like warrior's and necromancer's power signets which makes like 4%DPS for CCs, or change weapons for a bir lower DPS but more CCs like scepter to hammer for firebrand, or dagger in OH to warhorn for scourge etc.. But to be honest 99% people don't even know what their skills, weapons and traits do, only copy & paste builds and skills from websides..

If you read the thread it's been mentioned multiple times that condi fb has significant cc as is.