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Epidemic of rangers and thieves in WvW


manu.7539

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I roam with Scepter/focus fresh air power tempest, Sword/dagger bunker hybrid Weaver and Sc/Foc or dagger FA core power ele. I also roam with boonbeast (axe/axe and sword or dagger/warhorn) and pew pew LB/GS SB.Saying general stuff like ranger counters ele or vice versa is just whatever. Both have so many options that it is impossible to say which is better unless you specify builds. Elementalist especially is a swiss army knife that can be built to counter pretty much anything but also have distinct weaknesses for each build. And yes a sword/dagger weaver will have a hard time closing the gap and actually do some dmg to a LB ranger in an open field.

Now when we have templates which we can change with a press of a button and we also can change weapons on elementalists out of combat you can usually change your build and gear before the engagement. Sure if you get blindsided by a glassy pew pew ranger you can get downed fast but that counts for pretty much any burst build. And glassy pew pew rangers aren't really good roamers anyway imo. If I had to choose one ranger build for solo or up to 5 man roaming it would not be longbow. For a small squad roaming LB soulbeast is great though.

Thiefs are just a really annoying bunch. I wouldn't say OP, just really annoying. So I support thief hate.

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@LetoII.3782 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Just an average day on Maguuma.

dFNmXCr.jpg

Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

Damn, that's an oof.

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@aleron.1438 said:How familiar are you with Conjure earth shield Manu?

Or literally Twist of Fate, offhand focus, and/or the earth trait line.

Weaver is one of the best classes in the game when it comes to raw sustain into thief and ranger due to its projectile deflection various on-demand forms of damage reduction and healing, optional crit immunity, low-cooldown stability, cleanses, and constant superspeed/in-combat mobility. Even its glassy FA variant oblierates thieves since its burst tracks stealth and spams blinds to prevent backstabs.

The problem is the disparity between builds and modes is huge. PvE ele is actually straight bad in the PvP modes, possibly one of the worst coherent builds in existence.Like yeah if you're hard-camping Air/Fire on S/D with Air/Fire traits and no defenses you're gonna get slammed by roaming classes, but that's the case for nearly every class and build it fights.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Just an average day on Maguuma.

dFNmXCr.jpg

Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

kitten, that's an oof.

I dont get it?

Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Just an average day on Maguuma.

dFNmXCr.jpg

Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

kitten, that's an oof.

I dont get it?

Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"
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@anduriell.6280 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Just an average day on Maguuma.

dFNmXCr.jpg

Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

kitten, that's an oof.

I dont get it?

Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"

What? But they dont? Still missing something.

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I agree with the OP about those professions, don't let me start on thieves please :D They become untargetable while bursting you down and they can disengage from you with their stealth skills. Next time I want to add a 3rd character to my roaster I can assure you it will be a thief, they are so broken as roamers right now. It's funny to play one but it's the opposite to play against one. They are probably just as good in PvE as well. I can't wait to try one before Anet starts the nerf-train on these two professions

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Just an average day on Maguuma.

dFNmXCr.jpg

Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

kitten, that's an oof.

I dont get it?

Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"

What? But they dont? Still missing something.

I meant the spawncamping.But it seemed crude to point out how often Mag pushes both it's opponents off ebg.. So I dulled the barb with some wordplay.

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Just an average day on Maguuma.

dFNmXCr.jpg

Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

kitten, that's an oof.

I dont get it?

Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"

What? But they dont? Still missing something.

I think what the person who mentioned that the walls of SM extend right up to the feet of legendary defenders was trying to put across was the fact that, contrary to the meme like "pew pew rangers stand on walls all the time", rangers often chase down people right to their spawn points and that they don't just stand on walls.

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OP, the number of thieves and rangers heavily depends what server you're on. In my experience, I run into a lot more rangers than I do thieves unless I'm fighting a server like Gandara or Whiteside Ridge, and even then it's usually the same players in the same guilds. I don't run into many eles, but the ones that counter me tend to be tanky Sc/f builds with lots of projectile hate and heals, and they win because they wear me down rather than burst. Power thief builds in particular don't tend to have much health regen outside of their heals, so they keep track of my stunbreaks and use the 3s knockdown when they know I can't break it to finish the fight.

I get why it would be frustrating to play against thieves and rangers on a glassy ele build, running into your counter usually is. But the thing to remember is that if thief and ranger weren't played, odds are that mesmer would be the best roamer and that's what you'd be complaining about. There will always be a best in slot class for a particular niche, for roaming it's currently rangers and thieves, for zerging it's necros and guardians etc. You get a few classes like engi that can perform well in both settings, but most do better if they stick to their niche. Ele unfortunately has had it's zerging niche overtaken by power creep on other classes like necro and firebrand, and in small scale ele always did work better as a tanky bruiser spec than a glassy spec. So I get why you'd be frustrated trying to play outside of your niche, but ultimately that's the result of your choice to not play a standard build.

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@Touchme.1097 said:I agree with the OP about those professions, don't let me start on thieves please :D They become untargetable while bursting you down and they can disengage from you with their stealth skills. Next time I want to add a 3rd character to my roaster I can assure you it will be a thief, they are so broken as roamers right now. It's funny to play one but it's the opposite to play against one. They are probably just as good in PvE as well. I can't wait to try one before Anet starts the nerf-train on these two professions

You say next time you'll add a thief but you haven't yet despite it being an op class. You're having a hard time with players who picked a class that's telegraphed (stealth indicators are a good way to follow someone)more then the class so people notice them more than everything else on the map consistently nuking them. If you didn't add a thief to your roster before then you must not have had a problem until someone left you salty.

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@kash.9213 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:I agree with the OP about those professions, don't let me start on thieves please :D They become untargetable while bursting you down and they can disengage from you with their stealth skills. Next time I want to add a 3rd character to my roaster I can assure you it will be a thief, they are so broken as roamers right now. It's funny to play one but it's the opposite to play against one. They are probably just as good in PvE as well. I can't wait to try one before Anet starts the nerf-train on these two professions

You say next time you'll add a thief but you haven't yet despite it being an op class. You're having a hard time with players who picked a class that's telegraphed (stealth indicators are a good way to follow someone)more then the class so people notice them more than everything else on the map consistently nuking them. If you didn't add a thief to your roster before then you must not have had a problem until someone left you salty.

I am not being salty, I am playing GW2 since last month and rising a character to lvl 80 requires time and efforts, I only made a second character because I had a lvl 80 boost left. It's not easy and it's time consuming to have a lot of characters. Please refrain from writing toxic and antisocial comments when you address new players.

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The truth of the matter is, some classes are just more efficient in WvW, and that has relatively little to do with the game, so much as the people playing it.

Why are Mesmer and Thieves so highly valued ? They prey on human lack of reflexes, by constantly disappearing and teleporting around. The teleporting inside a fortification thing is a nice bonus, but that's not what makes gankers pick that class.

Why are Scourges such... scourges to any opposing zergs ? Because the basic zerg setup is to buff up before an encounter.

These are essentially metagaming. They prey on human habits and lack of reflexes. As they should. While the first one isn't something I can actually picture countering, I dont understand why zergs dont immediately ask to stop buffing when they know there are more than 5 scourges in front.

That doesn't mean everything is balanced, far from it. Thief and Warrior can trump balance entirely by using non stat related damage mitigation for example. I'm sure everyone has had atleast 1 encounter where a thief can manage to sap half of your health within 3 seconds before quickly teleporting and leaving your field of view, stealthing, and coming back to finish the job. Or a warrior that evade/block/invulnerable for 12 seconds straight while you're taking a massive amount of damage and can do none.

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@Touchme.1097 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:I agree with the OP about those professions, don't let me start on thieves please :D They become untargetable while bursting you down and they can disengage from you with their stealth skills. Next time I want to add a 3rd character to my roaster I can assure you it will be a thief, they are so broken as roamers right now. It's funny to play one but it's the opposite to play against one. They are probably just as good in PvE as well. I can't wait to try one before Anet starts the nerf-train on these two professions

You say next time you'll add a thief but you haven't yet despite it being an op class. You're having a hard time with players who picked a class that's telegraphed (stealth indicators are a good way to follow someone)more then the class so people notice them more than everything else on the map consistently nuking them. If you didn't add a thief to your roster before then you must not have had a problem until someone left you salty.

I am not being salty, I am playing GW2 since last month and rising a character to lvl 80 requires time and efforts, I only made a second character because I had a lvl 80 boost left. It's not easy and it's time consuming to have a lot of characters. Please refrain from writing toxic and antisocial comments when you address new players.

So uve played gw2 a month and have no experience playing other classes but are stating classes are OP etc already? Maybe wait till u play a bit longer and get experience playing ur class as well as others before u contribute to discussions about what classes are OP, I feel lately this forums full of newer players going back in forth with seasoned players,more so than normally.

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Thiefs and ranger great at roaming so what? their not great in zergs, some classes are bad roamers and great in zergs. All these whiners complaining a roam class picked them off while they were on route to their zerg is like a thief or ranger complaining after they die in a zerg about all the OP zerg classes, rarely happens cuz most teef players accept that their strength is in roaming not in large group fights. I cant believe with war claw around even with its nerfs any competant player would complain about any roaming classes, I think it was better before when it was actually dangerous to run to ur zerg pre warclaw but like the current gw2 trend this games pvp continues to get dumb down and caters more to the casual carebears then players that actually want to improve their skill in the game, no one wants to bother to actually learn to play anymore and just claim any class that downs them a few times OP before they even kno what their doing, sad really.

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I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

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@saerni.2584 said:I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

+1

Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions - Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault' 'get over it' 'this game is not for you'

Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

This is why Thief Profession is long over-due of serious change and is need to be seriously dealt with, with absolutely with no exceptions as soon as possible. Once after all for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune and their mishap

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@saerni.2584 said:I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

+1

Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions - Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault'

Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

This is why Thief Profession need to be seriously dealt with as soon as possible and for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune

Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

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@Touchme.1097 said:

@saerni.2584 said:I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

+1

Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions
- Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault'

Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

This is why Thief Profession need to be seriously dealt with as soon as possible and for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune

Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

+1

you misread my post and rushed and i completely agree with you...i'm on the community side.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@saerni.2584 said:I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

+1

Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions
- Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault'

Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

This is why Thief Profession need to be seriously dealt with as soon as possible and for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune

Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

+1

you misread my post and rushed and i completely agree with you...i'm on the community side.

I'm glad these two found each other, this forum is now complete.

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@Touchme.1097 said:

@saerni.2584 said:I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

+1

Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions - Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault'

Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

This is why Thief Profession need to be seriously dealt with as soon as possible and for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune

Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

Sry mate uve been playing just over a month and havent even played many other classes other than ur main, u admitted that no? I'd 100% say it's a l2p issue.Regarding the rest why is it I have no issues fighting teefs or rangers in wvw on warrior, rev or DH and I'm only a gold solo pvp'r? This game for some strange reason is a haven for players that have the mentality that any class u have trouble with automatically equals OP. In gw2 according to most of its pvp playerbase there is no such thing as being out played or simply being countered, op classes are all that exists.

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@Touchme.1097 said:Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

I hope you are enjoying Guild Wars 2, its always great to have new players around. Out of curiosity what class are you playing WvW on? Are you roaming solo or to do play mostly in a large zerg?

While I certainly agree with you that there are mechanics that make the Thief class difficult to battle, I happen think what the other posters are saying also has merit worth considering. The best way to learn how to counter a class would be to spend time playing that class and learning the way it plays. By doing this, you will get a great appreciation for how Thief plays and get into the mind set of a thief, which will help you counter their bursts and stealth. For one, thieves will usually get a lot more aggressive if you are low since their backstabs and heartseakers can hit like a truck, so prepare your own CCs and defensive skills for when you fall below 25% health. Learning to use the terrain is important as thieves have a lot of mobility skills and can move around very easily. When a thief stealths, dont just stand around, start moving so they have a hard time flanking you to strike you with backstab.

Any class that has access to High Mobility and Stealth will be effective in WvW, its just that Thief has plenty more to go around due to the nature of the class, which is why it can be such a difficult opponent to face in WvW. Knowing what both you and your opponent can and can't do however will be a good step in the right direction for combating them, and thats something that will come only with time and practice. You're fighting with one months experience against players that could have 8+ years of experience on a strong dueling spec. Time and practice are needed as well as game balance.

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