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Epidemic of rangers and thieves in WvW


manu.7539

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@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

I mean, a glass thief can usually escape from large groups of 5 or more pretty easy. Throw on some toughness and vitality armor and yeah, I've seen single daredevils kite an entire zerg before. If a class builds itself to survive, they can survive quiet a lot. It sounds like the person you're referring too was running a build like this. Their whole point is to make sure the waypoint is contested for their server. Most classes can do it, honestly, even without the mobility and stealth.

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@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kills normal?

this is not about 30 guys having a hard time killing Thief Profession players, it is about playing a game that was supposed to give players freedom to play any way they want and instead having to play a game versus Thief Profession.

Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be that competitive game to learn, grow and play against other Professions, at a Fair level without having Toxic mechanical design already dictating the winner,

Instead of using 30 minutes to 1 hour of your quality to have fun, 1 Profession decides that it is 'fun and competitive' by design to take it all away from you at will

Who is it having the hard time, the one who is design with outmost Priveldge to be Toxic without having any Punishment's whatsoever and get away with it, with Get out of Jail mechanics, skills or the player who want to get the best out of the game and be Punished for not wanting to deal with a Toxic Profession?

Isn't Learning and Growing part of Competitiveness? Than how does one learn and grown when Toxicity decides to take take it all away freely at will without Consequences?

'what did you do with your 30 minutes after logging into Guild Wars 2? we were keep being trolled and +1 shorted by Thief Profession so we logged off', 'we were chasing a Thief Profession abusing Stealth for about 15-20 minutes, than later decided to log of'

(Players time and Enjoyment should be valued and taken into consideration, Not be entrapped, robbed and held hostage by a Profession)

No!! It Is Not Normal!! Nor Should Be Ever Tolerated!!

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@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"manu.7539" said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?

(date-what results?)
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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"manu.7539" said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?

(date-what results?)

Nice, clearly shows how potatoe like most wvw are lmao seriously videos like this just highlight poor plays and unskilled players, nothing else. Although guess I should consider myself as a better player than I previously thought due to the fact I have little issues dealing with thief or rangers in any of the pvp modes :) whenever I am having issues its cuz I'm caught off guard, they counter my build or are simply better than me. Not only that both thief and ranger are low on my scary to face in a fight list lol.

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?

(date-what results?)

Ah, right, everything is "Toxic" because of this video of a bunch of scrubs running around using old Hammertrain builds from before the game even had expansions.

Have you ever seen what happens when you drop a Shadow Refuge in front of a Scourge or Hammer Rev?

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"manu.7539" said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?

(date-what results?)

That's why you don't use an entire horde to catch a permastealth thief. Idk how many times I have to reiterate this but you have to outsmart them because a smart thief isn't going to stick around a whole group that obviously want him dead. Instead of having a whole group have a permastealth thief to get sneak on them with target painters or setup traps using dragonhunters and rangers.

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@manu.7539 said:

@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

I would say they are obvious bad players

I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

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@lotus.5672 said:

@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

I would say they are obvious bad players

I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pveYes, because shadowstep, dash, signet of agility, facetarget+withdraw, facetarget+death's retreat, infiltrator's arrow, shadow meld, build templates with nomad's gear... don't exist.

One 6 second reveal counters thief... that's so 2012. A thief has even options, how he wants to survive these 6 seconds.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

I would say they are obvious bad players

I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pveYes, because shadowstep, dash, signet of agility, facetarget+withdraw, facetarget+death's retreat, infiltrator's arrow, shadow meld, build templates with nomad's gear... don't exist.

One 6 second reveal counters thief... that's so 2012. A thief has even options, how he wants to survive these 6 seconds.

If he wastes all those cooldowns to run away how can he hurt you and your 30 buddies

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@lotus.5672 said:all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

Yeah I know rangers vs thief is great, I said there was an epidemic of thieves and rangers and I still see the same thing but I wonder if all these thieves encouraged thieve-haters (count me in*) to play ranger?

*Btw I dont hate the thief players but the class, I'm sorry if your main is thief, it must be annoying to be the target of so many criticisms. :/

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@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

I hope you are enjoying Guild Wars 2, its always great to have new players around. Out of curiosity what class are you playing WvW on? Are you roaming solo or to do play mostly in a large zerg?

While I certainly agree with you that there are mechanics that make the Thief class difficult to battle, I happen think what the other posters are saying also has merit worth considering. The best way to learn how to counter a class would be to spend time playing that class and learning the way it plays. By doing this, you will get a great appreciation for how Thief plays and get into the mind set of a thief, which will help you counter their bursts and stealth. For one, thieves will usually get a lot more aggressive if you are low since their backstabs and heartseakers can hit like a truck, so prepare your own CCs and defensive skills for when you fall below 25% health. Learning to use the terrain is important as thieves have a lot of mobility skills and can move around very easily. When a thief stealths, dont just stand around, start moving so they have a hard time flanking you to strike you with backstab.

Any class that has access to High Mobility and Stealth will be effective in WvW, its just that Thief has plenty more to go around due to the nature of the class, which is why it can be such a difficult opponent to face in WvW. Knowing what both you and your opponent can and can't do however will be a good step in the right direction for combating them, and thats something that will come only with time and practice. You're fighting with one months experience against players that could have 8+ years of experience on a strong dueling spec. Time and practice are needed as well as game balance.

Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

Regards

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@Touchme.1097 said:Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

Regards

I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

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@lotus.5672 said:

@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

I would say they are obvious bad players

I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

Yup,but people like to pretend its not the case. Because thieves have an unlimited amount of dodges,unlimited amount of init,and an unlimited amount of ports.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"manu.7539" said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?

(date-what results?)

And none of them have the brain to use the two types of stealth traps available nor able to land any of the many reveals available. This just shows how bad people are and dont know what to do yet ask for nerfs. And that's why Anet should take these posts with a grain of salt considering who the players are that are asking for the nerfs,no matter how neatly they presented it. If you play like this,im sorry but you deserve to be outplayed.

If theres a thief hiding in your keep or tower,you will resort to stealth traps and the throwable trap.Get out of combat and slot reveal skills,there are several Aoe non target reveals ingame which are easy to landSpamm immob and condis on him when visible.Play agressive but play smart,a good thief is difficult to deal withThrow aoe's on his p5 if you see any pop up.Take note of where he used his shadow step,its a white ring,will be porting back usually close to the area of it being used.Land reveal on him right away when visible,when youre on ranger use quickness + immob + rapid fire which is a pain for them since the projectiles follow through stealth and he will prob have to waste 2 utils aswell.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@lotus.5672 said:all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

Yup,but people like to pretend its not the case. Because thieves have an unlimited amount of dodges,unlimited amount of init,and an unilimited amount of ports.

Right, many are talking about how easy they kill rangers and thieves, I guess we all do kill alot of them since they are so many but the ability of killing newbie with these class (and they are many) doesnt mean the class isnt toxic once its mastered.

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@manu.7539 said:

@"lotus.5672" said:all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

Yup,but people like to pretend its not the case. Because thieves have an unlimited amount of dodges,unlimited amount of init,and an unilimited amount of ports.

Right, many are talking about how easy they kill rangers and thieves, I guess we all do kill alot of them since they are so many but the ability of killing newbie with these class (and they are many) doesnt mean the class isnt toxic once its mastered.

Anyone can kill a "newbie" with any class. The class isnt toxic by design,stealth maybe is. It just shines in the hands of people that know how to play. And those would kill you on any class tbh. No matter if you people want to accept it or not,thief is still one of the hardest specs to master. There are no fail safe invulns or blocks. The ports and stealth Is our defense.

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@manu.7539 said:I should had I started this discussion because I'm afraid of what wvw will look like when all these newbies will master their class :anguished:

They wont,cus as i said. Its not easy,atleast not as easy as most people never having touched thief think it is. Most newbies trying thief relying on dp stabs being blown up by random aoe's while their stab is being blocked or missed will quickly move on to another spec with fail safe buttons .

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