Invisibility has Gotten out of Hand

[kash.9213]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@kash.9213 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Funny, with that garbage marked debuff covering most of the map in T1 it feels like you can't stealth anywhere

I always get a lol out of this complaint when I see it. If anything Thieves should count it as a blessing.

Fighting anyone near a tower is never a good idea, especially if it has Watch Tower. It doesn't matter if you have access to Stealth or not. They can retreat to the tower and put you in a bad position and you're now a beacon on the map that pugs will be coming for. Before Marked existed Thieves could ignore this danger with their Stealth and mobility effectively allowing them to engage and disengage where ever they please. While that isn't a huge problem itself, it does create a frustrating scenario where the Thief cannot be punished for over extending. No other class before or after the addition of Marked would want to stray too close to a tower for the reasons I've outlined; their opponent could escape inside the objective leaving them in a bad position, and scouting would likely have them outnumbered soon after.

Some towers have a frustratingly large area that Watch Tower covers, but that's a problem with Watch Tower itself that still needs rebalancing. Something many people agree on. Sentry's on the other hand are more of a problem in regard to Stealth because to remove the Marked you need to capture the Sentry. With that said, Marked is more than just a Reveal, it marks you on the mini map. No matter what you're playing you will be aware of your vulnerability and will need to evaluate the risk of approaching that Sentry knowing you will be temporarily visible on the map. So this isn't a problem exclusive to Thieves.

There is plenty of room to fight and roam about without being Marked. EBG maybe less so, but Thieves have the virtue of being able to choose when and where fights happen more so than any other class thanks to their mobility. Choose the right place to fight, know where to take that fight, and be aware of areas that will Mark you if you're choosing to risk fighting in those areas.

If I'm roaming on Necro I'm going to stop at the edge of Watch Tower range the same way I would with Thief but for different reasons. With Necro, I cannot escape if more people show up so I cannot afford to make myself visible on the map. With Thief, my defensive and offensive resource, Stealth, will be greatly impacted and will mean I need to be aggressive, so the risk probably isn't worth it.

What do you mean the thief can't be punished for overextending? Build to punish them, in your own territory with buffs by the way, or don't complain. Instead you suggest it's a good thing when someone can't use something or go to a part of the map. Got any more ideas on how we can not play parts of the game?

I think you misinterpret what I'm saying, because I'm not complaining at all. Personally I'm unfazed by Thieves and Stealth because I know how to deal with it and I've accepted it as a part of the game. I was stating facts and ways in which the Marked debuff affects other classes, though differently.

Maybe I should have worded it differently, but it would still be "it is very difficult to punish a Thief for over extending" instead of "can't be". Have you not had the displeasure of trying to kill the [CUTE] double Shortbow Thief that taps keep waypoints for hours? He doesn't even play bunker and yet he gets the entire map tilted because he's practically impossible to catch. Double Energy Sigil and Quick Pockets can do that just like Shadow Arts and Deadeye could near infinitely troll inside a recently flipped keep without Marked debuff. Which would be a problem since it has access to portals now

(great job on that addition by the way, ANet).

EDIT

Also I played Thief for a good while not long ago with Deadly Arts/Critical Strikes/Trickery. I did a lot of floating around in EBG as I usually do and I don't think I can recall a single time Marked was an issue in any way that it wouldn't be a problem on another class. I also never experienced any fights where Marked got me killed because unlike seemingly everyone who complains about this issue I know I have the mobility to disengage if it's causing me problems. Imagine using mobility on the class with the highest mobility.

Ya I agree, I don't really even consider marked areas, but mostly due to not building around stealth I guess. The wording of "cannot be punished" isn't vague which is why that stood out. That double shortbow thief sounds like that Pink thief who use to troll keeps, they can read the room and know when no one who can do anything will stick around. Once they read the kind of body language that tells them more than afk pip harvesters are going to bother they're either dead fast or they bounce. Most people don't build to chase kids around a keep and they know that.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

+10

'Stealth and why it reduces depth and skill'

(posted 2013)https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stealth-and-why-it-reduces-depth-and-skill

'GW did pretty well without invis, no clue which *...' was thinking this might be a good idea.'

'I main a thief and hate stealth, it’s a lame mechanic that should have stayed in WoW and other MMO’s. What made the assassin so awesome in GW1 was it didn’t use stealth but shadow steps with combo attacks.'

'It is safe to say that a massive portion of GW2’s player base has left this game; because they are tired of stealth classes.'

Guild Wars 1-Assassin Profession

'The gw1Assassin did it right. Shadow stepping gave them huge mobility, they had great control and really powerful offensive/defensive abilities that took finesse and skill to master. Just look at those skills.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_assassin_skills

They still had the power to not be targeted and escape or close faster than any other class and all without the invisibility gimmick........'

'Guild Wars 1-Assassin Pvp'

[Caedmon.6798]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

+10

'

Stealth and why it reduces depth and skill

'

(posted 2013)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stealth-and-why-it-reduces-depth-and-skill

'GW did pretty well without invis, no clue which *...' was thinking this might be a good idea.'

'I main a thief and hate stealth, it’s a lame mechanic that should have stayed in WoW and other MMO’s. What made the assassin so awesome in GW1 was it didn’t use stealth but shadow steps with combo attacks.'

'It is safe to say that a massive portion of GW2’s player base has left this game; because they are tired of stealth classes.'

Guild Wars 1-Assassin Profession

'The gw1Assassin did it right. Shadow stepping gave them huge mobility, they had great control and really powerful offensive/defensive abilities that took finesse and skill to master. Just look at those skills.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_assassin_skills

They still had the power to not be targeted and escape or close faster than any other class and all without the invisibility gimmick........'

'Guild Wars 1-Assassin Pvp

'

Did you record that with your nokia 3310 ?

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

You've been asking this for 7 years. Aren't you bored yet?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

You've been asking this for 7 years. Aren't you bored yet?

100% this^ seriously except that even though u don't like it others do and it's always been part of the game and isnt going to see any significant changes after 8+ years, seriously.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

You've been asking this for 7 years. Aren't you bored yet?

100% this^ seriously except that even though u don't like it others do and it's always been part of the game and isnt going to see any significant changes after 8+ years, seriously.

since I am playing for less than 5, I can't ask for it for 7.

That said, so far I haven't seen any reason to keep stealth.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

You've been asking this for 7 years. Aren't you bored yet?

100% this^ seriously except that even though u don't like it others do and it's always been part of the game and isnt going to see any significant changes after 8+ years, seriously.

since I am playing for less than 5, I can't ask for it for 7.

That said, so far I haven't seen any reason to keep stealth.

The last sentence totally disregards the fact that a lot of people like stealth gameplay and a lot learned to play against it which tells me ur mentality. Instead of spending time on this forum talking nonsense use that time to improve at the game, just a helpful tip for ya :)

[Burnfall.9573]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

You've been asking this for 7 years. Aren't you bored yet?

100% this^ seriously except that even though u don't like it others do and it's always been part of the game and isnt going to see any significant changes after 8+ years, seriously.

since I am playing for less than 5, I can't ask for it for 7.

That said, so far I haven't seen any reason to keep stealth.

+1

-Making Stealth Work-'Avoiding rage-quitting through great stealth design'

'Stealth design is like walking a tightrope. Great stealth has to balance gameplay, hiding spots, consequences for detection, immersion, and strategy. It’s a difficult line to walk, made even more so by player expectation. If in regular gameplay you can punch your way clean through most major enemies, forcing a player to arbitrarily hide from those same enemies will cause more frustration than fun.'

'Games about one player character against hundreds of enemies generally have to give you some kind of unfair advantage. In action games,

'Stealth games need a different solution, because the fun part is generally over by the time you get shot.'

[Dawdler.8521]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:stealth destroys any guild fighting. Both groups try to outstealth each other and the side which pulls it off, wins. This results in up to 10min of both groups moving around, retreating whenever the other side stealths up.

This is beyond stupid.

Anet, remove stealth from wvw. It is toxic, it makes the game more boring. It has no reason to exist and no valid defense to keep it.

You've been asking this for 7 years. Aren't you bored yet?Ignoring the period where Anet added the

perfect

anti-stealth mechanic that made zergs/guilds able to effectivly destealth other guilds/zergs, spent a couple of years

buffing

it, and then suddenly Anet said

"FU you're not having that anymore, guilds need stealth"

and deleted it from the game by moving it to a useless skill nobody in their right mind equip.

RIP detection pulse.

Because Purity Of Purpose.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Get out of jail free skills like this on classes designed with an abundance already is poorly thought out and ridiculous to try and balance. How does it make any sense for the highest ranged skills to also have stealth burst skills or stealth at all for that matter, if any class should be given a stealth skill it is poor mobility slow classes not thieves, trap rangers / druids etc. I've given up any hope that anything is done about this as i see far less developer / community involvement than at any other time in the history of the game or these boards.

[kash.9213]

@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:Get out of jail free skills like this on classes designed with an abundance already is poorly thought out and ridiculous to try and balance. How does it make any sense for the highest ranged skills to also have stealth burst skills or stealth at all for that matter, if any class should be given a stealth skill it is poor mobility slow classes not thieves, trap rangers / druids etc. I've given up any hope that anything is done about this as i see far less developer / community involvement than at any other time in the history of the game or these boards.

You'd give some bunker with a bunch of passives better stealth? I'd give up most stealth for more tricks to control with but I don't think I want to get stealth bombed by your new ghost priate ship.

[MasterDeere.3417]

You guys can try to defend thieves as much as you want, the fact of the matter is that RIGHT NOW, as you are reading this, there is a thief trolling an entire zerg and keeping a keep contested for whatever amount of time he please. No need to go in detail and think like madmen, its not rocket science, the result in action is the best proof. I dont know if its intended by developpers, but its hard to take this game seriously when you have unballanced stuff like that.

[Caedmon.6798]

@MasterDeere.3417 said:You guys can try to defend thieves as much as you want, the fact of the matter is that RIGHT NOW, as you are reading this, there is a thief trolling an entire zerg and keeping a keep contested for whatever amount of time he please. No need to go in detail and think like madmen, its not rocket science, the result in action is the best proof. I dont know if its intended by developpers, but its hard to take this game seriously when you have unballanced stuff like that.

Yeah its not rocket science to use a stealth trap or the stealth throwable object neither.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:Get out of jail free skills like this on classes designed with an abundance already is poorly thought out and ridiculous to try and balance. How does it make any sense for the highest ranged skills to also have stealth burst skills or stealth at all for that matter, if any class should be given a stealth skill it is poor mobility slow classes not thieves, trap rangers / druids etc. I've given up any hope that anything is done about this as i see far less developer / community involvement than at any other time in the history of the game or these boards.

Stealth is not a "get out of jail free card". If all thief had was stealth, thief would be killed constantly. Its teleports that let thief escape whenever they want. Specifically, shortbow 5. Thats why S/D thief still escapes just as well despite not using stealth at all. Also, are you suggesting that thief is one of the best ranged classes? Because its not, and nowhere close.

[MasterDeere.3417]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"MasterDeere.3417" said:You guys can try to defend thieves as much as you want, the fact of the matter is that RIGHT NOW, as you are reading this, there is a thief trolling an entire zerg and keeping a keep contested for whatever amount of time he please. No need to go in detail and think like madmen, its not rocket science, the result in action is the best proof. I dont know if its intended by developpers, but its hard to take this game seriously when you have unballanced stuff like that.

Yeah its not rocket science to use a stealth trap or the stealth throwable object neither.

Since when they need invisibility to troll, invisibility is the cherry on the sunday.

Anyway, whatever you say, we all know a good thief can do WHATEVER he please. End of the story.

And saying stuff like to use traps and such is really a weak excuse. Because lets say they make the thief even more OP, even to GOD level, you guys will still use that retarded excuses. Heres a real life example on how this excuse is retarded: 1 tank vs 1 human, the tank will win 99% of the time, but you guys will say: "the human had the option to put a grenade into the tank canon". That dosnt make it balanced. In the end, the result will still be the tank winning 99% of the time, like right now thief trolling entire zerg as they please.

The real result on the battlefield is how you see if a class is balanced or not.

[choovanski.5462]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@MasterDeere.3417 said:You guys can try to defend thieves as much as you want, the fact of the matter is that RIGHT NOW, as you are reading this, there is a thief trolling an entire zerg and keeping a keep contested for whatever amount of time he please. No need to go in detail and think like madmen, its not rocket science, the result in action is the best proof. I dont know if its intended by developpers, but its hard to take this game seriously when you have unballanced stuff like that.

Yeah its not rocket science to use a stealth trap or the stealth throwable object neither.

yo I want a warrior build you need to use supply to fight too. maybe some kind of new endure pain that just lasts until you use a new type of trap on me that removes it

I mean, if it's no issue for you to need to use supply and a trap to fight thief, I can't see why warrior shouldn't be permanent endure pain until they get hit by a new type of trap

if it's ok to have to use a trap and supply to kill one class, why can't it be my class? can't see why not. can't see how if it's fine for thief it wouldn't be OP for warrior too

seems fair. please add

[DemonSeed.3528]

and then you will get affected by sentries, tricks/traps, watchtower, marked etc taking away your endure pain/blocks/etc

[Caedmon.6798]

@MasterDeere.3417 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@MasterDeere.3417 said:You guys can try to defend thieves as much as you want, the fact of the matter is that RIGHT NOW, as you are reading this, there is a thief trolling an entire zerg and keeping a keep contested for whatever amount of time he please. No need to go in detail and think like madmen, its not rocket science, the result in action is the best proof. I dont know if its intended by developpers, but its hard to take this game seriously when you have unballanced stuff like that.

Yeah its not rocket science to use a stealth trap or the stealth throwable object neither.

Since when they need invisibility to troll, invisibility is the cherry on the sunday.

Anyway, whatever you say, we all know a good thief can do WHATEVER he please. End of the story.

And saying stuff like to use traps and such is really a weak excuse. Because lets say they make the thief even more OP, even to GOD level, you guys will still use that kitten excuses. Heres a real life example on how this excuse is kitten: 1 tank vs 1 human, the tank will win 99% of the time, but you guys will say: "the human had the option to put a grenade into the tank canon". That dosnt make it balanced. In the end, the result will still be the tank winning 99% of the time, like right now thief trolling entire zerg as they please.

The real result on the battlefield is how you see if a class is balanced or not.

Ive been succesful using stealth traps against them 9 out of 10 times when they try to hide,its also not hard to ask some people to do the same. Just because you arent able to or willing to do this is an issue on your side.

[KeyOrion.9506]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:6 sec non stack able stealth but replenisheable would be reasonable since the thief can re apply but not stack. Be a nerf but still serviceable by the thieves. That said any major changes to stealth this many yrs into the game are very unlikely

Since Guild Wars 2 beta; Thief Profession players gave countless, endless positive constructive suggestions, ideas and healthy advices to improve a near-healthy competitive experience for Thief Profession

What did Anet do? Ignore them.

Countless of Thief Nerf Wish lists and Thief Balance Suggestions Threads by Thief Profession players follow suit. What did Anet do in return?Threw all of them in the trash, setting a clear stage for creating a Toxic experience and a hostile environment for Thief Profession Players with the gaming community

You've never played ranger have you.

[Burnfall.9573]

@KeyOrion.9506 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:6 sec non stack able stealth but replenisheable would be reasonable since the thief can re apply but not stack. Be a nerf but still serviceable by the thieves. That said any major changes to stealth this many yrs into the game are very unlikely

Since Guild Wars 2 beta; Thief Profession players gave countless, endless positive constructive suggestions, ideas and healthy advices to improve a near-healthy competitive experience for Thief Profession

What did Anet do? Ignore them.

Countless of Thief Nerf Wish lists and Thief Balance Suggestions Threads by Thief Profession players follow suit. What did Anet do in return?Threw all of them in the trash, setting a clear stage for creating a Toxic experience and a hostile environment for Thief Profession Players with the gaming community

You've never played ranger have you.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Do-you-feel-powerful

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Rangers-why-specifically-do-you-hate-them

-As a former Ranger Profession player, we did once had our own dev who stood up for us and gave up everything to fight for the Ranger Profession including the Ranger community-

[choovanski.5462]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:and then you will get affected by sentries, tricks/traps, watchtower, marked etc taking away your endure pain/blocks/etc

well, it would just be endure pain. thief has blocks evades, etc too and they are not effected by revealed, plus they even have an elite that removes reveal.

but yeah, that seems fine, glad you think it's fine too. perma endure pain (no power dmg at all) on warrior unless you hit the boy with a trap, or mark em with a watchtower/sentry.

so now to even do direct damage to a warrior you need to use supply or lead him to an objective that can mark him. seems like a great change for the warrior class that would introduce a lot of high skill gameplay.

finally we can be a too tier high skill class like Thief that needs supply to fight :dizzy:

I'm excited for this change, but I have another idea too.

what if when you fight a necromancer- just give me a second here- you are just feared 100% of the time unless you get him with a trap. I know it sounds pretty cool, and you're excited to see what other high skill changes I have in mind for roaming so everyone can display as much skill as those beautiful thief players. so keep tuned. more ideas are in the works.

perma endure pain warrior. perma fear necro. I'm just getting started. soon every class will be so high skill you'll need supply to fight anyone at all.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@jpsssss.7530 said:

@"kash.9213" said:Why not just limit Stealth Attack window instead of making a mess like that?Stealth attacks aren't the issue. The issue is thief literally has so many on command stealth abilities and that stealth is the best defensive (and offensive if you're a condi build) tool in the game with no real counter play.

Stealth is the

worst

defensive tool. Block, Evade, Invuln are all

far

better. Hell its so bad at it Im not even sure stealth counts as a defensive tool.

Sure it is. Except you can use it whenever you want and in combination with other skills. If stealth were one skill that lasted 3 seconds, required a channel, and had a 50s cd the way invuln does nobody would have a problem with it! But no. Stealth is an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it. Worst design in the game.

"You can use it whenever you want", uh, as opposed to blocks, invulns and evades which ... you also can use whenever you want? Hell, its worse than that, because Evades, Blocks and Invulns tend to activate instantly, whereas stealth does not, and usually has a lengthy cast time. Also, "you can use it in combination with other skills", in that case its those

other skills

doing all the work, and invisiblity provided next to nothing. Stealth is

not

"an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it" (quite the opposite, its the only way a thief can get himself killed). Shortbow 5 is that.

Like I said. Too much stealth and mobility. Too few counters and restrictions. A class that is designed to be unhittable and to escape from any fight whenever they want is poor design.

Too much mobility you can argue. Too much stealth? Stealth is not even useful outside of out of combat scenarios, and in those cases "too much" seems to mean "any access to it at all". Thief is not at all designed to be unhittable (quite the opposite. If the thief doesnt run, theyre one of the easiest classes to hit. Part of why they always have to run). And sure, you could argue that thief always being able to escape from any fight is problematic. But A, that has

nothing

to do with stealth and is an entirely different conversation, and B, so can Warrior and Ranger, and I dont see you calling for their head.

Talking to you is pointless. Stealth is a massive advantage, particularly the completely unrestricted version of it they use in this game. It's been explained to you a million times. Agree to disagree. In my opinion, we need to spend less time disengaging and more time fighting.

If youre unwilling to ever consider the possibility that youre wrong, then yes, talking to the guy who points out that youre wrong is pointless for you. Because youre wrong. Stealth is good, at times problematic,

but not for the reasons you say

. Its an incredible offensive tool out of combat. It lets you hide cast times and get the drop on enemies who never knew you were even there. But as a defensive tool? Its bad. Its the worst defensive tool by

far

, and most of the time its worse than

just not using it in the first place

.

Sure, I can agree with that. But that would require a WvW split on infiltrators arrow, a nerf to it, and massive buffs to thieves 1v1 capabilities, because currently they are trash.

Why is stealth pointless while in combat? Nobody really bothers to try a kill a d/p thief but a stealthess s/d or staff theif is a different story, ? Because their stealth is so low and are 90% visable.

Why is stealth pointless in combat, may be a lot of us are clueless so explain why it's pointless, tell us please.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@choovanski.5462 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:and then you will get affected by sentries, tricks/traps, watchtower, marked etc taking away your endure pain/blocks/etc

well, it would just be endure pain. thief has blocks evades, etc too and they are not effected by revealed, plus they even have an elite that removes reveal.

but yeah, that seems fine, glad you think it's fine too. perma endure pain (no power dmg at all) on warrior unless you hit the boy with a trap, or mark em with a watchtower/sentry.

so now to even do direct damage to a warrior you need to use supply or lead him to an objective that can mark him. seems like a great change for the warrior class that would introduce a lot of high skill gameplay.

finally we can be a too tier high skill class like Thief that needs supply to fight :dizzy:

I'm excited for this change, but I have another idea too.

what if when you fight a necromancer- just give me a second here- you are just feared 100% of the time unless you get him with a trap. I know it sounds pretty cool, and you're excited to see what other high skill changes I have in mind for roaming so everyone can display as much skill as those beautiful thief players. so keep tuned. more ideas are in the works.

perma endure pain warrior. perma fear necro. I'm just getting started. soon every class will be so high skill you'll need supply to fight anyone at all.

So to make a proper comparison does warrior endure pain skill now constantly need reapplying as well a restocking using a global resource of the warrior to keep up? Can 1 damage types still damage the warrior during endure pain being active like as with how stealth'd opponents can still take all forms of damage?Seriously the fact ur comparing a invulnerability skill being constant(in ur discussions) as being the same as stealth in it's current forms shows u guys seriously should not be providing balance input on this game yet.

[choovanski.5462]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@choovanski.5462 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:and then you will get affected by sentries, tricks/traps, watchtower, marked etc taking away your endure pain/blocks/etc

well, it would just be endure pain. thief has blocks evades, etc too and they are not effected by revealed, plus they even have an elite that removes reveal.

but yeah, that seems fine, glad you think it's fine too. perma endure pain (no power dmg at all) on warrior unless you hit the boy with a trap, or mark em with a watchtower/sentry.

so now to even do direct damage to a warrior you need to use supply or lead him to an objective that can mark him. seems like a great change for the warrior class that would introduce a lot of high skill gameplay.

finally we can be a too tier high skill class like Thief that needs supply to fight :dizzy:

I'm excited for this change, but I have another idea too.

what if when you fight a necromancer- just give me a second here- you are just feared 100% of the time unless you get him with a trap. I know it sounds pretty cool, and you're excited to see what other high skill changes I have in mind for roaming so everyone can display as much skill as those beautiful thief players. so keep tuned. more ideas are in the works.

perma endure pain warrior. perma fear necro. I'm just getting started. soon every class will be so high skill you'll need supply to fight anyone at all.

So to make a proper comparison does warrior endure pain skill now constantly need reapplying as well a restocking using a global resource of the warrior to keep up? Can 1 damage types still damage the warrior during endure pain being active like as with how stealth'd opponents can still take all forms of damage?Seriously the fact ur comparing a invulnerability skill being constant(in ur discussions) as being the same as stealth in it's current forms shows u guys seriously should not be providing balance input on this game yet.

obviously you don't know how endure pain work if you have to ask these questions. perhaps take a look at the skill on wiki if you are unsure of its properties (clue it doesn't make you invulnerable to all damage like you seem to think).

regardless, you missed the point. it's this: why is thief the only class you have to use traps built with supply to fight? why is the counter to stealth builds on Thief using supply to build a trap, when no other build in the game on any other class needs something built with supply to fight it.

these are obviously not serious balance suggestions, I am making them in jest- but not without purpose. I'm trying to illustrate how ridiculous it would be if every class had a mechanic that had to be countered with a supply built trap to have a good chance of fighting it.

if necro had a perma boon on it that feared you on attack, unless you used a trap to remove that boon, but they also had an elite skill that reapplied it- that would be pretty silly. imagine having to use supply to build a trap just to fight a necro.

so when I see people suggesting supply built traps as a way to fight thief, I have to wonder what it would be like for every class. what if every class needed a special supply built trap to fight it, like Thief does? wouldn't that be a meme

[ASP.8093]

The stealth trap isn't really an "I want to beat thieves" mechanic, it's an "I don't want to fight thieves" mechanic.